Technology Android

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Looks like some experts are much higher on Apple and ARM than I, a simple retard, am: https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...tel-at-wwdc-will-define-a-decade-of-computing

"Define a decade of computing." I'm all for it but I still don't know much about programming/developing to know if this means app for ARM-based machines will take some time to perform as well as their current versions on...x64? x86? I don't know. But that could be a headache of a transition period, much like Apple's decision to go all-TB3 all of a sudden and make people adopt a life of dongles and adapters. And it's still not 100% there as tech these days are still shipping with legacy USB cables. Like my S10's cable, a USB to USB C cable.

This also probaly disrupts gaming for macOS, as crappy and limited as it may already be, if current games aren't developed for ARM and people who play popular games like LoL, Fortnite, Overwatch, etc. all of a sudden can't. Also, RIP Boot Camp.

Also, some of the iPhone 12 dummies leaked:
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Looks like some experts are much higher on Apple and ARM than I, a simple retard, am: https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...tel-at-wwdc-will-define-a-decade-of-computing

"Define a decade of computing." I'm all for it but I still don't know much about programming/developing to know if this means app for ARM-based machines will take some time to perform as well as their current versions on...x64? x86? I don't know. But that could be a headache of a transition period, much like Apple's decision to go all-TB3 all of a sudden and make people adopt a life of dongles and adapters. And it's still not 100% there as tech these days are still shipping with legacy USB cables. Like my S10's cable, a USB to USB C cable.

This also probaly disrupts gaming for macOS, as crappy and limited as it may already be, if current games aren't developed for ARM and people who play popular games like LoL, Fortnite, Overwatch, etc. all of a sudden can't. Also, RIP Boot Camp.

Also, some of the iPhone 12 dummies leaked:
The transition of Macs to ARM would be more painful than the transition from IBM to Intel, but alike, just longer. Boot Camp could actually be viable after a while since Windows supports ARM through translators - many programs run fairly well on it, just slow. Most don't, but big name software like Office runs on ARM chips okay-ish. There would just be little point to it, since Mac becoming a dedicated ARM OS would likely run better than Windows that barely supports ARM to accommodate a few niche products running it.

Within the Apple ecosystem devs would indeed have to rewrite their programs for Arm. I expect some major devs have already been doing it if Apple is to already start transitioning this year. It's the smaller/ more niche tools that will be problematic. Apple might release a 'translator' that users could still run them through, just inefficiently and likely with bugs, but they are likely carefully waging such decision as it could allow devs to be lazy and to avoid the hit to the user experience of running poor-quality interpreted software.
As for games, there is a good chance that while Macs would drop support of Windows ports / boot camped games / existing Steam library, they could enable the iOS games/apps gallery to compensate. Sure, these are significantly dumbed down, but the library is larger so many casual users could see that as added value.

All in all Apple going ARM is interesting. Intel needs a big kick in the balls, and AMD surpassing them apparently wasn't enough, as they are still swimming in money because "nobody got fired for ordering Intel". Businesses entirely moving away from Intel might just be the right thing to push Intel to start improving their products again.

As for the iPhone 12, everyone's talking about it being just literally the iPhone 11 with iPhone 5 sides slapped on.
I wonder if that's everyone falsely repeating the same rumor and playing along, or if Apple is really that lazy with their design, which I find hard to believe.
It would be really disappointing if they use the same design for the fourth year in a row, including those big ass notches. They were ok when the X launched, and maybe XS, but they were really stretching it with the 11 and really look old and out of place at this point. If this is true buying 12 would be like buying the iPhone 8 when it launched - you'd know you're buying a phone that already looks dated compared to literally anything that's on the market on launch day, and will look straight super old-school very soon once the next generation introduces a radical redesign that was overdue when you got your phone. In this case I prefer Samsung's strategy of steady yearly design upgrades so your previous-gen phone never looks that old when the new one launches, but three years down the line you can appreciate how far things went.
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
The transition of Macs to ARM would be more painful than the transition from IBM to Intel, but alike, just longer. Boot Camp could actually be viable after a while since Windows supports ARM through translators - many programs run fairly well on it, just slow. Most don't, but big name software like Office runs on ARM chips okay-ish. There would just be little point to it, since Mac becoming a dedicated ARM OS would likely run better than Windows that barely supports ARM to accommodate a few niche products running it.

Within the Apple ecosystem devs would indeed have to rewrite their programs for Arm. I expect some major devs have already been doing it if Apple is to already start transitioning this year. It's the smaller/ more niche tools that will be problematic. Apple might release a 'translator' that users could still run them through, just inefficiently and likely with bugs, but they are likely carefully waging such decision as it could allow devs to be lazy and to avoid the hit to the user experience of running poor-quality interpreted software.
As for games, there is a good chance that while Macs would drop support of Windows ports / boot camped games / existing Steam library, they could enable the iOS games/apps gallery to compensate. Sure, these are significantly dumbed down, but the library is larger so many casual users could see that as added value.

All in all Apple going ARM is interesting. Intel needs a big kick in the balls, and AMD surpassing them apparently wasn't enough, as they are still swimming in money because "nobody got fired for ordering Intel". Businesses entirely moving away from Intel might just be the right thing to push Intel to start improving their products again.

As for the iPhone 12, everyone's talking about it being just literally the iPhone 11 with iPhone 5 sides slapped on.
I wonder if that's everyone falsely repeating the same rumor and playing along, or if Apple is really that lazy with their design, which I find hard to believe.
It would be really disappointing if they use the same design for the fourth year in a row, including those big ass notches. They were ok when the X launched, and maybe XS, but they were really stretching it with the 11 and really look old and out of place at this point. If this is true buying 12 would be like buying the iPhone 8 when it launched - you'd know you're buying a phone that already looks dated compared to literally anything that's on the market on launch day, and will look straight super old-school very soon once the next generation introduces a radical redesign that was overdue when you got your phone. In this case I prefer Samsung's strategy of steady yearly design upgrades so your previous-gen phone never looks that old when the new one launches, but three years down the line you can appreciate how far things went.
I wonder if Apple is banking on having cross compatibility with iOS apps/games being a compromise for losing access to Steam games and Windows games via Boot Camp. And if game devs see it as a way to develop games for iOS or macOS and have it work on either OS. Then they could advertise their games as being available for two different platforms that use the same code, or whatever. Albeit with a lot of compromises on size and performance.

I saw a Dave 2D video this past weekend about the Razer Blade gaming laptop and he raves about how good it was but also criticized it for still using Intel chips when Ryzen was clearly superior. I wonder if Intel is paying other OEMs to blackball AMD chips out of their offerings.
This can’t go on for much longer, though. Some top OEM has to break rank and adopt the clearly superior tech for their flagship/professional offering.

It doesn’t look like it’ll be Apple, not when they’re dedicated to ARM in the next five years across their lineup.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I wonder if Apple is banking on having cross compatibility with iOS apps/games being a compromise for losing access to Steam games and Windows games via Boot Camp. And if game devs see it as a way to develop games for iOS or macOS and have it work on either OS. Then they could advertise their games as being available for two different platforms that use the same code, or whatever. Albeit with a lot of compromises on size and performance.

I saw a Dave 2D video this past weekend about the Razer Blade gaming laptop and he raves about how good it was but also criticized it for still using Intel chips when Ryzen was clearly superior. I wonder if Intel is paying other OEMs to blackball AMD chips out of their offerings.
This can’t go on for much longer, though. Some top OEM has to break rank and adopt the clearly superior tech for their flagship/professional offering.

It doesn’t look like it’ll be Apple, not when they’re dedicated to ARM in the next five years across their lineup.
I think it would be extremely interesting if Apple went with a unified app/games ecosystem between their Macbooks, iPads and iPhones. They really could run the exact same code. It could end up being quite amazing, really.

Ryzen processors are better in every market now - desktop, server, and now they also completely dominate in laptops. I mean, you are getting an 8-core, 16 thread chip in the mid range, with each of those cores being faster than Intel's. You are also getting AMD's Vega graphics on that chip that's twice as fast as Intel's, and has much better driver support. Ryzen is also much more power efficient under load. There is nothing that Intel can compete with at the moment.

Intel has contracts with the OEMs though. OEMs also have preferential prices for going Intel in their flagship series. If they use Ryzen chips now, they will have to pay full price for future Intel chips and be at a competitive disadvantage compared to other OEMs who stuck with Intel and thus can get their Intel chips at lower prices. OEMs are scared that Intel might make a comeback in the future and they'll have to pay big money for that then. Intel loves buying loyalty and scare tactics, and It's really scaring businesses into not going with the competition now.
Then you have people who order Intel at their jobs to play it safe, because "nobody got fired for buying Intel". Then there's the image of being associated with low-cost/low-quality products in the past - AMD is still somehow seen as the unproven option, even though their chips weren't the cause for those laptops being low quality - they were dirt-cheap laptops and AMD had the cheapest chips for OEMs to go with them. That reputation stays if you aren't following tech news though. For servers, some businesses use proprietary software that was optimized for Intel. A lot of reasons, a lot of fuckery.
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I think it would be extremely interesting if Apple went with a unified app/games ecosystem between their Macbooks, iPads and iPhones. They really could run the exact same code. It could end up being quite amazing, really.

Ryzen processors are better in every market now - desktop, server, and now they also completely dominate in laptops. I mean, you are getting an 8-core, 16 thread chip in the mid range, with each of those cores being faster than Intel's. You are also getting AMD's Vega graphics on that chip that's twice as fast as Intel's, and has much better driver support. Ryzen is also much more power efficient under load. There is nothing that Intel can compete with at the moment.

Intel has contracts with the OEMs though. OEMs also have preferential prices for going Intel in their flagship series. If they use Ryzen chips now, they will have to pay full price for future Intel chips and be at a competitive disadvantage compared to other OEMs who stuck with Intel and thus can get their Intel chips at lower prices. OEMs are scared that Intel might make a comeback in the future and they'll have to pay big money for that then. Intel loves buying loyalty and scare tactics, and It's really scaring businesses into not going with the competition now.
Then you have people who order Intel at their jobs to play it safe, because "nobody got fired for buying Intel". Then there's the image of being associated with low-cost/low-quality products in the past - AMD is still somehow seen as the unproven option, even though their chips weren't the cause for those laptops being low quality - they were dirt-cheap laptops and AMD had the cheapest chips for OEMs to go with them. That reputation stays if you aren't following tech news though. For servers, some businesses use proprietary software that was optimized for Intel. A lot of reasons, a lot of fuckery.

I can see how it turns political when it comes to allegiance to one over the other. I never thought about the momentum shifting back to Intel because the past year or two has just been all AMD's show when it comes to being praised by reviewers.

This was the Razer Stealth review I was talking about from Dave 2D:

He says it's a good gaming laptop but still wishes it had a Ryzen chipset. At 5:10 he moves on from simply reviewing the machine and starts talking about Intel vs AMD a bit.

Another YTer I follow intentionally ble like $7K on Samsung devices and tried to get in to the Samsung/Bixby ecosystem with different devices:

Needless to say, he ended up thinking a lot of it was garbage, save for a few gimmicks that the Samsung notebook had, like being able to wirelessly charge other devices using the trackpad. Which made me think what is Samsung trying to do with Bixby? Google clearly owns the voice control/digital assistant sector with Google Assistant. Siri was the first to do it but Assistant is still head and shoulders above Siri, but Siri is at least still in the mix just because of the number of iOS devices out there (and Macs, too, although I never use it). What is Bixby doing, though? My S10 has a dedicated Bixby button that I ended up disabling. Many Samsung users just remap the button to bring up the camera, or something. But Samsung is still trying to make it a thing by continuing to put it on their phones and then on the appliances they make for the home, like microwaves.

I guess Smart Things is somewhat popular, though. I don't know how Bixby integrates with that but I read a lot about people using Smart Things for their home automation needs because it uses Z Wave and those are pretty streamlined compared to WiFi smart devices and much "cleaner" to get them all connected. But Bixby is still a thing and that's puzzling.

One thing we've known about for a few years but we didn't mention in this thread when discussing the appearance of ads in Samsung phones was the shady practices Samsung got busted for a few years back where their TVs would record audio and send it back to Samsung and other companies. While doing some research on TVs, I also read that Samsung TVs had ads, too. It was something brought up in the video I linked but I had kind of forgotten about it. Now with the reports of some people getting ads on their Galaxy devices, it's no surprise Samsung would eventually start to shit on their mobile lineup as well. If you paid attention to their TVs and what they were caught doing with those, it was only a matter of time for it to hit their phones.

Samsung has a similar marketshare as Apple in the US. Apple might actually be considerably more popular, but Samsung is a comfortable #2 overall in the US and #1 for Android by a large margin. They probably feel they can do whatever they want at this point and there's no real competition for people looking for an iPhone-alternative running Android. Plus, most users are casual and would just roll over and take the BS Samsung is pushing these days because they don't know or care that much about those things being prevalent on their phones. So with that being said, I don't think Samsung is going to back down from these practices because the pushback would only come from a minority of their users. And would that minority even leave Samsung for another Android OEM, like LG or Moto? Would they take the drop in QC of LG devices or opt to get the mid range Moto offerings just to stick it to Samsung? I doubt it. This is like what I read Xiaomi users complaining about with the ads on their devices. Fanboys and casual users alike will excuse the OEM's shitty practices and just let the brand go down the drain until they're left with users that would switch OEMs with zero issue when it comes time for a new phone.

As for Apple blending iOS and macOS, I think this has been in the works for over a decade. Maybe slightly less but I think I remembered reading about this in 2012 or so, but it was separate from the ARM rumors, which also existed since back then. I think there were talks by Apple fans about macOS/OSX running some sort of emulator built in to the OS that would blend the apps of macOS and iOS so they could run on both. So the plan to have both OSs sharing an app store and catalog have been around for some time. Maybe only in the past 3 or 4 years when the ARM rumors became more commonplace and seemed more likely did the rumors become more about one standard architecture and iOS and macOS devices both being built around said architecture. So if the rumors are true, that is what might inevitably happen.

If I'm not mistaken, there are some Windows OEMs that run on ARM tech, right? They may not be as good but Apple wouldn't be the first to sell a computer with the benefits of ARM tech. They may just do the usual of testing it out with the entry level Macs, like the Airs and then gradually move up the lineup to the Pros once developers have more time to optimize their apps for Pro users. I don't know if it will ever reach the levels of the current architecture, and you've mentioned it before, but it may be good enough. Or Apple may just simply "find a way" to make ARM apps perform as well or better than current iterations. I doubt Apple would take two steps back by going ARM and then not have a plan to make those apps work better than they did before. I don't think Apple would be OK being regressive like that and letting Windows go in a different direction and add a selling point for Windows over macOS. If anything, if Apple can pull it off, we might see PC OEMs shift to ARM as well. They may just be taking a wait-and-see approach, like the headphone jack removal, camera notch, etc. Now everyone is focusing hard on wireless audio, including OEMs themselves like Samsung.They just might be waiting to see if Apple finally whiffs on making a big shift like ARM. Sort of like Apple dropping USB completely and going the TB3/USB-C route, which was not a good idea.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Since we talk a lot about value of certain brands, I thought this was a good video:

Even though he has many products in the D or F grade range, it's obvious he's still looking at it from a fanboy's perspective and goes easy on some of the more popular devices.

Still, the dialogue in between was spot-on in terms of value or lack of value in the Apple product lineup. I did not know that iMac Pro is still on 2+ year old hardware but is still a machine that starts at $5K. I think it was discounted a few months after its release at Micro Center. I think I saw it around the $3500 mark, so a $1500 or 30% discount. And it looks like it still struggled to sell well in the niche market that it was designed for.

Those Mac Pro wheels, though.....and that stand for the $5K ProDisplay....

One other point they mentioned was the 13" MBP and how lost it seems in the lineup now that the Air performs as well as it does. It's like the Air and 13" Pro switched roles from the past few years when the Air wasn't updated for 3+ years while the MacBook was introduced and was seen as an Air replacement/successor. Now the MacBook is gone and the 13" really doesn't justify the price increase over the Air with minimal bump in power. That might get the axe soon and might streamline the MacBook lineup if Apple does decide to go ARM in all notebooks they offer. It would just be the Air and the 16" Pro as opposed to the 13" in between. If Apple decides to gradually roll out ARM over the span of 3-5 years, that's one less lineup to worry about. The price difference would be more than double from the Air to the 16", which would suck, but Apple is known for doing that, too.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I really want that Xiaomi Air Purifier. Looks dope. I really like the build quality of their stuff. I have their electric scooter (M365) and it's dope.
I was researching air purifiers last winter for use at home and at the clinic and the highest rated ones typically came from a Korean company called Coway. I actually asked @masta247 about the company since he spent time in Korea and I think he said they were popular but he didn't have any experience with it. I think that's what he said, but I can't remember for sure.

Since Xiaomi is basically non-existent in the US in any tech sector, the review sites didn't even test the Xiaomi air purifier(s).

Another popular company is the Swedish company, Blueair, who is also big in India. I think their features were a bit lacking but their performance was one of the best. It had a higher price tag, though.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
WWDC is tomorrow. It seems like it's 50/50 whether they announce the switch to ARM tomorrow, or not. I also read that no new hardware is planned. It's all rumors so it could all be wrong. It's going to be odd having no audience there.

Also, I saw this on YouTube. I don't follow this guy but I also didn't know that much about the history of Android.

 
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masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Wow, Apple did it. And it looks like they’ve got a sick plan for transitioning rather smoothly, too.
Yup, it's something in between the two options I was thinking about. They didn't go through the entire process behind closed doors, but they also aren't half-assing it. They are just announcing a transition that was happening behind closed doors and it's part for the public part so all devs can now work on porting their software.
They are releasing a translator ("Rosetta 2"), so they are taking a risk with the quality of translated programs knowing that people will need them as not all will be ported for ARM.

I like this approach. Overall this is very exciting. Apple chips are amazing and progressing faster than anyone else's (even AMD's). For simple instructions, in programs made for ARM, they will most likely be faster than Intel's. It's a very busy, expensive, but super exciting time at Apple, I bet. I really look forward to Mac on ARM, especially if it blurs the lines between Mac and iOS and shares software libraries. Even if I don't ever get a Mac, this is a great thing for Apple users and the tech market as a whole.

Since Xiaomi is basically non-existent in the US in any tech sector, the review sites didn't even test the Xiaomi air purifier(s).
You can get their Air Purifiers through official distribution in Europe though. They are only outperformed by super high-end units (which are mostly commercial-grade purifiers), except that Xiaomi's cost around.. $150-200. Xiaomi's first purifier was also the first smart purifier on the market, and their app for it is really cool. I've been able to control my mom's purifier 24/7 from a different country without having had to touch the device itself for years now, and that includes after software updates (which the first gen is still getting) and restarts when it was moved to a different room/plug. Three years later it's still the best looking device I can imagine having in a living room too.
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Yup, it's something in between the two options I was thinking about. They didn't go through the entire process behind closed doors, but they also aren't half-assing it. They are just announcing a transition that was happening behind closed doors and it's part for the public part so all devs can now work on porting their software.
They are releasing a translator ("Rosetta 2"), so they are taking a risk with the quality of translated programs knowing that people will need them as not all will be ported for ARM.

I like this approach. Overall this is very exciting. Apple chips are amazing and progressing faster than anyone else's (even AMD's). For simple instructions, in programs made for ARM, they will most likely be faster than Intel's. It's a very busy, expensive, but super exciting time at Apple, I bet. I really look forward to Mac on ARM, especially if it blurs the lines between Mac and iOS and shares software libraries. Even if I don't ever get a Mac, this is a great thing for Apple users and the tech market as a whole.



You can get their Air Purifiers through official distribution in Europe though. They are only outperformed by super high-end units (which are mostly commercial-grade purifiers), except that Xiaomi's cost around.. $150-200. Xiaomi's first purifier was also the first smart purifier on the market, and their app for it is really cool. I've been able to control my mom's purifier 24/7 from a different country without having had to touch the device itself for years now, and that includes after software updates (which the first gen is still getting) and restarts when it was moved to a different room/plug. Three years later it's still the best looking device I can imagine having in a living room too.

Yeah, it's quite something. I'm still going through the changes because I couldn't watch the presentation, so a lot has sort of fallen in between the cracks and I missed them even on live blogs, like Anandtech's. I really want to get on the dev preview for the iOS beta but I know something I need will definitely not work, or some bugs will be way too much to handle on a daily driver iPad. Which is the very nature of dev betas, so I'll stay clear for now. For now, lol. I might wait to see how people find it after a week or so and then get on it, too.

For the Macs, as exciting as the switch was, I know there is still a lot of work devs and Apple, both, have to do to make the transition not suck so much. I don't plan on upgrading for another 2 or 3 years, as my 2017 is, well, 3 years old now. But three years from now, we should be over many of the bigger hiccups that come with such a drastic change.

I read the headline about Rosetta but didn't quite explore it as yet. It sounds like Boot Camp, but for compatibility with Intel-based apps. Is that the right term? Intel chips? Or is it considered something more technical, like x64, or something? Whatever it is, it's good Apple is trying to smooth the transition. It won't be like the sudden switch to TB3 with not even one A port for older devices. I still don't think any OEM does all-TB3 ports 4 years after Apple did it.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I read the headline about Rosetta but didn't quite explore it as yet. It sounds like Boot Camp, but for compatibility with Intel-based apps. Is that the right term? Intel chips? Or is it considered something more technical, like x64, or something? Whatever it is, it's good Apple is trying to smooth the transition. It won't be like the sudden switch to TB3 with not even one A port for older devices. I still don't think any OEM does all-TB3 ports 4 years after Apple did it.
It's an emulator attempting to translate x86 apps so they can run on ARM. Likely slow and imperfect, but for many people who rely on programs that will never be ported it might be necessary.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
It's an emulator attempting to translate x86 apps so they can run on ARM. Likely slow and imperfect, but for many people who rely on programs that will never be ported it might be necessary.

I watched a few YTers thoughts and explanations on ARM. I'm still not certain on some things but more things made sense to me now, including the uses of Rosetta 2. I think it would behoove developers to get on board with making their stuff ARM-compatible because it would mean their stuff is used on both iOS and macOS by users. Unless someone's work specifically demands the use of a certain program, people will look for alternatives to apps/services that play nice with both their Macs and their iOS device. Apple seems to have their native options ready to go, including Final Cut, which would be a huge advantage over Adobe if Adobe isn't on-par on ARM variants of its app.

This was the video that gave me some clarity on the situation.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Has anyone been keeping up with the companies being exposed for stealing data from users' clipboards and some other privacy concerns after iOS 14's feature to detect and prevent those very same things from happening?

https://9to5mac.com/2020/06/25/tikt...fter-being-exposed-by-ios-14-privacy-feature/

Does Android have something like this that works as well as this? I think I remember Android 10 was supposed to have some features involving granting user permissions on an app basis, but that doesn't mean it still works or alerts users to apps trying to circumvent this.

Of course, TikTok is low hanging fruit and has been a privacy concern for a while. I'd been hearing about its dangers on Reddit for at least a year and this just confirmed the fears.
 

THEV1LL4N

Well-Known Member
I think Mijia is a sub-brand of Xiaomi. Could some of the products be made by them?

I was looking at the Ionic hair dryer, kettle, some lights, power bank, wireless car charger, suitcases, body composition scale and maybe even the selfie stick tripod, air compressor and screwdriver set. The problem is that sometimes they completely remove their products from the website and then reintroduce them after a few months. There are great options for gifts on this website.

I think the website could do with a little refinement (improvements needed to consistency). Some products have the price listed on the product page, and on others you need to click on 'Buy now' before the price is revealed.
 
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