Technology Android

THEV1LL4N

Well-Known Member
Didn't Jelly Bean focus on a "buttery smooth" experience which made performance improvements over Honeycomb and Ice Cream Sandwich, or was it KitKat over Jelly Bean? Lollipop made my Nexus 7 very slow - unbearably slow and I'm stuck with it. Factory reseting it improves it for the short-term and then it becomes painfully slow again - which is why I hardly use it anymore. I only use it as an e-reader now and to watch some TV shows on the go.

This year, hopefully is the year I upgrade my phone and get a Chromebook 2-in-1.

Phones are made to last longer, bar the integrated batteries degrading over time which are non-replaceable (unfortunately).

I remember the old days of 12-month contracts being normal, then 18 month, then 24 months. But more people than ever go sim-only and keep their phones a little longer. I've kept my LG G4 now for just under 3 years and although I've felt like upgrading (was tempted by the original Pixel and the Pixel 2, Mi 5, Mi A1, LG G6, LG V30), but my G4 it's still fine and I'm still happy with it - just need a new cable and battery and maybe factory rest and start from fresh again.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Yeah, I would be satisfied with the updates provided if I were an S6 owner. 3 years sounds about right before the phone's hardware can get in the way of things, although I may still be thinking of older phones and older versions of Android; I think a phone from 2014 or so could still handle Android O. Like you said, I don't think the features in the last two or three updates since Marshmallow have isolated any phones, at least on paper in terms of specs.

Also, I didn't use Swype but it seems like they are closing their doors for their keyboard development and are now focusing on AI solutions for businesses. That's nuts that it bit the dust after being out for so long. I don't like swipe to type but I do remember using it in 2009/2010 when it was a novelty. Gone now.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
So the S9 was just announced, and while I loved that they focused on its camera, I wasn't impressed that they also focused on a lot of gimmicks. I don't see how the upgraded slow-mo or emojis add any value, yet that took a third of the whole presentation, Apple-style. That said, the dual aperture is cool, and I hope the sensor will turn out to really take much better photos, considering their focus. We shall see in the first reviews.

I like the minor under-the-hood improvements, and that they finally got the stereo speakers, that the edges are a little more subtle, yet the bezels are the tiniest bit smaller despite both changes, which both usually lead to actual bezels becoming larger. I think that is a nice feat of engineering. Basically we will have a phone with an ever so slightly smaller footprint, that kept the same battery sizes, added stereo speakers, better camera (and second camera added on the S9+) and a much faster chipset than anything else on the market - at least outside of the US.

Overall, surely it will be by far the most complete package on the market for a longer while. The main bad news is the fact that the progress has slowed down since the S6/S7 era, yet the price increases are way too crazy. Still, it is a very tangible improvement over the S8, which was a redesigned S7. The S9 is an overall improvement, finally.

Actually, that Exynos processor is the biggest performance improvement since the S6, with the biggest single core performance improvement since the Krait core over 5 years ago.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Man, the US users are getting seriously fucked (much more than usual):
https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2018/02/13/samsung-galaxy-s9-specs-qualcomm-snapdragon-exynos-speed-price-release-date/

Before reading the above article I had absolutely no idea that Qualcomm has a deal that forbids Samsung from selling their Exynos processors in the US. This is the first year when Americans will really be at a huge disadvantage, considering how much weaker the CPU on the 845 is. Also, it surely costs Samsung to make that 845 version along the flagship, global one. Not to mention that the new Exynos is what brings the true performance advantage over any other Android smartphone, as the 845 will be used by pretty much all 2018 flagships. The Exynos is actually a whole league better this year, getting much closer to the newest Apple chips in terms of raw performance.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
To add to the above, Anandtech did a hands-on test of the S9 units: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12460/samsung-announces-the-galaxy-s9

And holy shit! Look at the performance of the new Exynos processor on the S9. Also, look at how much weaker the Snapdragon 845 version is. This year they couldn't be bothered with nerfing the Exynos version, but look at the performance difference! That is unbelievable and isn't even funny. If I got this phone in the US, I would be really, really pissed. That said, it's a gridlock, as the 845 is still going to be the best chip available there this year. But the Exynos version is by around.. x1.7 faster than the Snapdragon version, and also almost 2.5x faster than the processor powering the Pixel 2 and the rest of the last year's flagships - the Snapdragon 835. That's an unprecedented performance bump in mobile.

 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Man, the US users are getting seriously fucked (much more than usual):
https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2018/02/13/samsung-galaxy-s9-specs-qualcomm-snapdragon-exynos-speed-price-release-date/

Before reading the above article I had absolutely no idea that Qualcomm has a deal that forbids Samsung from selling their Exynos processors in the US. This is the first year when Americans will really be at a huge disadvantage, considering how much weaker the CPU on the 845 is. Also, it surely costs Samsung to make that 845 version along the flagship, global one. Not to mention that the new Exynos is what brings the true performance advantage over any other Android smartphone, as the 845 will be used by pretty much all 2018 flagships. The Exynos is actually a whole league better this year, getting much closer to the newest Apple chips in terms of raw performance.

I didn't realize that either. And Reddit seems to find qualms in everything else but the Exynos/SD discrepancy. They are mocking the AR emojis the most. But the price seems to be less than the S8, which is good.

I actually came to post the Anandtech article:https://www.anandtech.com/show/12460/samsung-announces-the-galaxy-s9

This is my last month under contract, I believe, and beginning March 1 I'll be eligible to upgrade. But as I've said in the past, upgrading via Sprint means the end of 2 year contract pricing and instead doing monthly payments on a phone which will end up raising the monthly cost for the family pricing. Still, it will allow me to lease a phone and upgrade after 12 payments, so I can upgrade more frequently without having to worry about finishing a contract.

Another thought that crossed my mind was to not upgrade via Sprint and buy the phone outright, full price. I still keep unlimited everything for the price I pay now, which is about $30 a month less than if I went to the new structure, and after a while, I would break even on the full price of the phone due to the monthly savings of staying on the old plan than I would have with the new plan and paying monthly.

Or I could just hang on to my S7. It's not a terrible thought and while the S9 will still be a decent upgrade over my S7, the Exynos/SD situation makes it feel like a rip off for US customers. And I don't know what the implications are for seeking an international model, paying full price, and then trying to activate it on Sprint's network.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I just posted the benchmarks right before you posted. The difference between the Exynos and the Snapdragon chips is insane! I feel like Samsung were stuck, as they had this processor, it turned out to be a really insane performance jump, and decided to just release it as it is, for the first time creating a gigantic gap between the global and the US versions. In the past, this kind of performance growth would take 3 years to take place. Now it's a difference between getting the global version in favor of the US version of the same phone that costs the same!

Try to get one in Canada, unlocked, and maybe figure out how to activate it in the US ;) I would really feel horribly buttfucked if I got the Snapdragon version. It's literally like a defective product in comparison.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Yeah, it certainly seems so. I didn't realize the difference between the Exynos and SD for the S7, and I don't think the benchmarks were out when I got my S7 a week before its official release date to compare the two. I know for the S7, the Exynos had the ridiculous battery life and we SD guys were a good 2+ hours less of SOT vs the comparable model (Flat vs Edge).

Also, speaking of benchmarks, http://appleinsider.com/articles/18...well-behind-iphone-x-in-processor-performance

I always see the argument switch back and forth between whether benchmarks mean anything or not. But we already know Apple's chips are pretty much the ones to beat when it comes to these benchmarks between the two OSs. And the X is 4, or so, months old.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Yeah, it certainly seems so. I didn't realize the difference between the Exynos and SD for the S7, and I don't think the benchmarks were out when I got my S7 a week before its official release date to compare the two. I know for the S7, the Exynos had the ridiculous battery life and we SD guys were a good 2+ hours less of SOT vs the comparable model (Flat vs Edge).



Also, speaking of benchmarks, http://appleinsider.com/articles/18/02/27/early-benchmarks-shows-samsung-galaxy-s9-well-behind-iphone-x-in-processor-performance



I always see the argument switch back and forth between whether benchmarks mean anything or not. But we already know Apple's chips are pretty much the ones to beat when it comes to these benchmarks between the two OSs. And the X is 4, or so, months old.
Iphones have gigantic, high power CPU cores that favor burst performance, but throttle fast. Qualcomm's cores are more balanced and righfully favor sustained performance, while Samsung did something in between, but much closer to the Apple cores than Qualcomm's.

Regarding the article, gotta love fresh, north korea style propaganda. I'd get brain cancer if I read the whole thing.
The single core performance in terms of pure hardware is quite close while the Samsung cores are using up almost 40% less power, so the Samsung cores are technically better for mobile phones than Apple's. Even Anandtech, while pro-Apple, gave props to Samsung for having a more balanced mobile CPU that is ridiculously fast for the power that it uses. Sure, Apple's is a little faster, but Samsung is right behind and at lower power, and miles ahead of any other chip on Android camp.

Web benchmarks, as Anandtech put it, indicate that something's wrong with how the phone deals with load demand, hopefully only on the demo units. First of all Samsung's CPU governor (probably not being tweaked yet) moves the load to the small cores. That means that the Exynos cores wouldn't even be tested by the web bench, as the phone decides that the task doesn't require being processed by the large cores, and most of the work for web tasks was done by the power-saving cores. CPU governor is just a set of settings that can be tweaked and changed on the fly, so there's hoping Samsung does that properly for the retail units.
That said, I can also see why Samsung would like the current setting, as Google's web engine is very inefficient and require a lot of power to process simple websites, the power that Samsung would rather save using the power saving cores to ensure longer battery life when browsing the web, as opposed to having some websites drain the battery fast, especially as the power saving cores are much faster this generation and can handle that "well enough". Which leads me to the second point.

The second point is that Apple's javascript engine (software) is simply much better than Google's shitty Chrome one. While the governor can drastically change for the retail units, there is a reason why all Android phones score lower than iPhones in web tests and it has nothing to do with hardware - iOS handles websites much more efficiently than Android, which is purely due to Google being really behind at optimizing web performance, which is unbelievable considering that Google is a web company. That will get fixed with software, as soon as Google actually optimizes its engines. By now pretty much any major browser is also faster than Chrome, so I suspect this has to happen soon. Until then, you can use an Intel i7 to browse the web on Android and it could still trail iOS in terms of some web benchmarks, mainly Javascript performance, mostly due to Google's weak and inefficient javascript performance. If Android 9 or 10 comes out with a superior javascript engine, all Android phones getting such update will benefit retroactively and severely improve in web benchmarks. That goes much further than just browsing the web, as many simple apps (such as news apps, even some games) are made based on webview, which renders them using Google's inefficient web engine, rather than natively. The fact that Google is so far behind in that regard is really surprising.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Seeing as most people, at least casual users, use the web more than they do gaming or anything else hardware-taxing, is that why so many people enjoy iOS? There's clearly a favoring towards Apple in the US, which isn't the case internationally, where the iPhone is seen by a lot of people as the standard for how a mobile device should be. Whether it be hardware or software. I don't know if there's Java in apps, but if there is, then iOS wins again. Most young people use apps but plenty of people still use the browser, even if there is an app version of a popular website or service (Facebook, Twitter, etc.).

So if iOS handles Java much better than Android, and lots of people use their web browsers on their phones a lot of the time, it seems the people you enjoy iOS are getting the best experience without being aware of the reasons behind it.

Chrome is crap as a browser for Mac. Most people I know either use Safari or Firefox. I know we're talking about mobile OSs but this goes to your point of Google not having a clue on how to make Chrome not be such a memory hog. I'm sure the issues plaguing Android OS with Chrome are very similar in reason.

How is Google ignoring this for so long? I know benchmarks aren't the end game but if there's something as glaringly flawed as your own freaking web browser....
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Yeah, and while you can always use a different web browser, another thing is with the underlying optimization for web technologies of the whole platform. Android has something called the WebView, which is basically a set of technologies that process everything that comes from the web and gets displayed in real time in any apps that do that. It does that in an inefficient manner. If your Facebook app has to process some javascript code to display a photo, or a post, it's simply more inefficient on Android.
I have no clue why they are trailing Apple so much in that regard. Out of all the companies, I would expect Google to handle web technologies well. The issue is a matter of Google reworking and releasing better web engines, primarily a more efficient javascript engine. It's purely a matter of software, and an update would severely improve the performance of all Android phones getting it.

Also, I mentioned the Javascript engine. It's different than Java (the programming language). Javascript is for web, Java is for local/native code. Android deals with Java well, as that's how most of the apps are written. The javascript part of them (the part processing things obtained straight from the web) is the inefficient thing in them.
I can't speak on the popularity of iOS, as I don't live in the US, but indeed they do offer superior web performance. My old iPad Air is a better tool for browsing the web than my Galaxy S6, despite the S6 being miles ahead in terms of the processing power.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Yeah, and while you can always use a different web browser, another thing is with the underlying optimization for web technologies of the whole platform. Android has something called the WebView, which is basically a set of technologies that process everything that comes from the web and gets displayed in real time in any apps that do that. It does that in an inefficient manner. If your Facebook app has to process some javascript code to display a photo, or a post, it's simply more inefficient on Android.
I have no clue why they are trailing Apple so much in that regard. Out of all the companies, I would expect Google to handle web technologies well. The issue is a matter of Google reworking and releasing better web engines, primarily a more efficient javascript engine. It's purely a matter of software, and an update would severely improve the performance of all Android phones getting it.

Also, I mentioned the Javascript engine. It's different than Java (the programming language). Javascript is for web, Java is for local/native code. Android deals with Java well, as that's how most of the apps are written. The javascript part of them (the part processing things obtained straight from the web) is the inefficient thing in them.
I can't speak on the popularity of iOS, as I don't live in the US, but indeed they do offer superior web performance. My old iPad Air is a better tool for browsing the web than my Galaxy S6, despite the S6 being miles ahead in terms of the processing power.

Should I disable WebView on my S7? I think I've seen an option that allows me to choose if WebView, or something else, is used to open remote pages. For browsing, I using Brave browser because it has a built in ad blocker. It means I don't need to use AdGuard for monitoring browser traffic, which can use up a good bit of battery. Brave seems to be better about it.

Funny enough, I had a link to share I saw on Reddit about a system-wide ad blocking service for Samsung devices. I know Disconnect Pro and Adhell exist, but none work on the streaming apps I use to remove commercial breaks in between TV episodes. AdGuard does and so that's what I activate just when streaming.

But this is the one that was posted on Reddit: https://github.com/LayoutXML/SABS/releases

Requires an Enterprise license/key or something, similar to what Adhell required but people are having issues getting one so I can't try it at the moment. Still not positive it works the way AdGuard does for me, but it's worth a shot.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
The Pixel 2 is simply on another level with it's camera. Even in the worst lighting conditions it still takes amazing pictures. It's because Google is way ahead on their machine learning based image processing.
 

THEV1LL4N

Well-Known Member
The Pixel 2 is simply on another level with it's camera. Even in the worst lighting conditions it still takes amazing pictures. It's because Google is way ahead on their machine learning based image processing.

I recall watching a video that explains the technology behind the image processing on the Pixel 2 vs the competition.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Yeah, and while you can always use a different web browser, another thing is with the underlying optimization for web technologies of the whole platform. Android has something called the WebView, which is basically a set of technologies that process everything that comes from the web and gets displayed in real time in any apps that do that. It does that in an inefficient manner. If your Facebook app has to process some javascript code to display a photo, or a post, it's simply more inefficient on Android.
I have no clue why they are trailing Apple so much in that regard. Out of all the companies, I would expect Google to handle web technologies well. The issue is a matter of Google reworking and releasing better web engines, primarily a more efficient javascript engine. It's purely a matter of software, and an update would severely improve the performance of all Android phones getting it.

Also, I mentioned the Javascript engine. It's different than Java (the programming language). Javascript is for web, Java is for local/native code. Android deals with Java well, as that's how most of the apps are written. The javascript part of them (the part processing things obtained straight from the web) is the inefficient thing in them.
I can't speak on the popularity of iOS, as I don't live in the US, but indeed they do offer superior web performance. My old iPad Air is a better tool for browsing the web than my Galaxy S6, despite the S6 being miles ahead in terms of the processing power.


I would make a separate thread for this but I know no one will check. I've been researching a monitor to use with my MBP. I mean, it's for me and I'd use it but with my dad have the same MBP as me and my sister a 13", I imagine it would be used by the family for somethings.

For me, I use it for streaming video. I game lightly but I know proper gaming monitors have tech I'd still never use. But I still want a nice, accurate display.

I've looked around at review sites and it seems that, for newer Macs, they recommend the LG UltraFine displays. The 5K display is obnoxiously expensive and most definitely not in my price range. The 4K display seems a bit more attainable at $600. And because it's such a big investment for casual use, I plan to keep it around for a while so while I want nothing too fancy, I don't something devoid of features that will have me yearning for an upgrade in 2 years.

So the 4K by LG seems to be "approved" by Apple for use with Macs and it ha a clean, minimal setup of a thin power wire and and a USB-C-only connection, which is great for all 3 of our Macs and the XPS 15 we have, that also has a USB-C port.

Is there anything that offers a similar experience to the UltraFine 4K from LG but at a lower price, or is the premium for the 4K display sort of "worth it" if you're looking for something that's close to the best, but not for professional (editing) use?

Anand doesn't seem to do monitor reviews, I read a few on MacWorld and Tom's hardware but still didn't know what was best for me. I don't want to overkill the purchase so a 5K is out, but a 4K display seems to be what some forums recommended if I wasn't ready to simply "settle" for a 1080 display. I'd like something that utilizes my MBP's GPU for giving the best picture possible on a display larger that the 15".
 

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