Technology Android

[dilla]

Are we ever going to hit peak camera wars? The 8 Plus just took the lead for best camera in a smart phone https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-8-plus-reviewed-the-best-smartphone-camera-ever-tested/

At least the megapixel war was over a few years back but is it just about shutter speed and OIS and processing software now?

 

[Casey]

Are we ever going to hit peak camera wars? The 8 Plus just took the lead for best camera in a smart phone https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-8-plus-reviewed-the-best-smartphone-camera-ever-tested/

At least the megapixel war was over a few years back but is it just about shutter speed and OIS and processing software now?

Back in February, I was hanging in Silicon Valley at my friend's house who works for Google. We had a party one night and it turned out a guy there had just left GoPro to work for Apple on camera processing. He made it pretty clear that Apple was hiring a ton in this area and this was only a few months after the Pixel had destroyed the iPh7 on camera quality.

So I expected this.

Let's see what Google bring to the table with the Pixel 2.

 

[masta247]

^ To add to that, there's historically never been a Galaxy S phone that had a worse camera than the last iPhone, which leaves something to be excited for.
That said, the improvements on the iPhone's camera are very good - they went from a fairly mediocre camera to a very good one. Like I said, the iPhones finally are serious about catching up to top Androids. Ironically, I think apart from the price (which is still a major pointer), the bad rep is beginning to haunt them, and people don't like them:
http://www.gsmarena.com/weekly_poll_results__iphone_x_on_top-news-27395.php

 

[dilla]

^ To add to that, there's historically never been a Galaxy S phone that had a worse camera than the last iPhone, which leaves something to be excited for.
That said, the improvements on the iPhone's camera are very good - they went from a fairly mediocre camera to a very good one. Like I said, the iPhones finally are serious about catching up to top Androids. Ironically, I think apart from the price (which is still a major pointer), the bad rep is beginning to haunt them, and people don't like them:
http://www.gsmarena.com/weekly_poll_results__iphone_x_on_top-news-27395.php

Yes, but it's important to note that one OEM still has ~45% of the interest of GSMArena's small sample space.

Also, I know it's a marketing ploy by Apple to use video and photo shot on an iPhone in their commercials but I don't see other OEMs doing something similar either. You'd think you'd want to announce that to users, most of them who use social media a ton, and try and one-up Apple with better video, photo or even stabilization.

Doesn't Apple use the Sony cameras? I thought they were the best in the industry, as far as mobile cameras went.

 

[masta247]

Yes, but it's important to note that one OEM still has ~45% of the interest of GSMArena's small sample space.

It's probably the smallest I've seen out of any phones, and it's pure judgement whether a phone is nice or not, and if yes, which one. If someone voted "poop", it means they don't like any, and the new iPhone seems to be the most disliked. The iPhone 7 alone got a 33% approval last year. The iPhone 8 got a 3% approval this time around, with remaining votes being split between "poop" and the iPhone X. This is what Samsung got:

This year, I voted for the X in that poll even, even though I'm not interested in actually getting it, just because it's a step up compared with the previous iPhones. The biggest problems with it now are iOS related, the display cutout and a lack of headphone jack.
Personally I wouldn't be able to give up on VR and that SD card storage. I have the S6 which doesn't have the latter, and I know I will never again buy a phone without expandable storage.

Also, I know it's a marketing ploy by Apple to use video and photo shot on an iPhone in their commercials but I don't see other OEMs doing something similar either. You'd think you'd want to announce that to users, most of them who use social media a ton, and try and one-up Apple with better video, photo or even stabilization

I'm not sure I've seen that campaign, but I'd see that as "we can take nice photos too" kind of message. I wouldn't do that because it's not that great of an idea as every phone takes photos good enough for print or social media (which downsizes and compresses them anyway), especially if there's already a company already running such campaign. Apple never had a rep for great cameras, which is something they're trying to change very hard, so it makes no sense to challenge them on that field either.
The only thing that would look distinguishingly different would be if there was an OEM using huge camera sensors, like some of the good old Nokia Pureviews - those photos would look significantly better, and then it would make sense to advertise them. For current flagship smartphone cameras which all have similarly small sensors , a photo taken by any device, then printed or posted on Facebook would look pretty much the same because of limitations of those formats and similar dynamic range of flagship smartphone cameras due to the similar sensor sizes.

Doesn't Apple use the Sony cameras? I thought they were the best in the industry, as far as mobile cameras went.

Every maker uses Sony cameras. There are a few niche phones with Toshiba cameras, and some Samsungs use Samsung cameras.
Sony uses the best camera hardware in their own phones - a generation newer than they sell to others except Samsung, which is the only OEM who gets custom made cameras for their S-series phones from Sony. Despite having the best sensors available to themselves, somehow Sony handicaps their phones with horrible software processing, poor optics or stupid choices like a lack of OIS. Samsung produces almost equally good camera hardware, some generations being occasionally even the tiniest bit better.

 

[dilla]

I'm not sure I've seen that campaign, but I'd see that as "we can take nice photos too" kind of message. I wouldn't do that because it's not that great of an idea as every phone takes photos good enough for print or social media (which downsizes and compresses them anyway), especially if there's already a company already running such campaign. Apple never had a rep for great cameras, which is something they're trying to change very hard, so it makes no sense to challenge them on that field either.
The only thing that would look distinguishingly different would be if there was an OEM using huge camera sensors, like some of the good old Nokia Pureviews - those photos would look significantly better, and then it would make sense to advertise them. For current flagship smartphone cameras which all have similarly small sensors , a photo taken by any device, then printed or posted on Facebook would look pretty much the same because of limitations of those formats and similar dynamic range of flagship smartphone cameras due to the similar sensor sizes.

They did it starting with the 6 or 6S. The unveiling of those phones was shot with Apple device, either shot on an iPhone or iPad and/or edited on an iPad/Pro. Not sure.




https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/15/shot-on-iphone/

They knew pro photographers were submitting stuff, so they opened it to the public: https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/30/a...oard-ads-were-all-shot-during-the-same-night/

This was the hashtag for the campaign they promoted on Twitter: https://9to5mac.com/2017/08/07/instagram-apple-shot-on-iphone/

It did start with the iPhone 6: https://www.cultofmac.com/324566/apples-shot-on-iphone-6-tv-ads-are-utterly-charming/

Not that Android phones can't take just as good pictures, but I wonder why so many pro photographers joined in on the campaign. And why they didn't bash Apple for trying to get mobile phone cameras to be considered as good as the DSLRs they usually use.

Time magazine did a special report on influential women and all the photos were shot with an iPhone. And TIME made sure to note that in the piece, that an iPhone was used.

Every maker uses Sony cameras. There are a few niche phones with Toshiba cameras, and some Samsungs use Samsung cameras.
Sony uses the best camera hardware in their own phones - a generation newer than they sell to others except Samsung, which is the only OEM who gets custom made cameras for their S-series phones from Sony. Despite having the best sensors available to themselves, somehow Sony handicaps their phones with horrible software processing, poor optics or stupid choices like a lack of OIS. Samsung produces almost equally good camera hardware, some generations being occasionally even the tiniest bit better.​

Don't eye tests on the comparisons show the iPhone succeeding in one area and Samsung phones usually in another? But the one reviewers "count" as more important fall in favor of the iPhone, at least for real world usage?

 

[dilla]

Speaking of Sony.... http://indianexpress.com/article/te...n-smartphone-will-have-completely-new-design/

 

[dilla]

Oh look, Android fans can stop pretending to hate the removal of the headphone jack now https://twitter.com/rdr0b11/status/913510315555356672

Google has gone full Apple the past year or so. Or, I should say, Android OEMs have. But this is from Google itself.

 

[masta247]

Oh look, Android fans can stop pretending to hate the removal of the headphone jack now https://twitter.com/rdr0b11/status/913510315555356672

It's not Android "fans". It's the kind of fanboyism that ruins the industries and future products for us all, since they're voting with their wallet for things that make the whole industry go in the wrong way. That's the worst type of a person, only followed by an average ignorant consumer who just follows those guys.
So far everything we know about the Pixel 2 is quite shit, to be honest, and the fact there will be people idolizing Google no matter what Google does makes me ashamed of using Android, but then I think that there are such people behind any company. It just sucks because Android and Google used to stand for the Tech Savvy people who knew better than that.

Speaking of Sony.... http://indianexpress.com/article/te...n-smartphone-will-have-completely-new-design/

That would be great and is way overdue. Frankly, this is one of the trio of things they have to fix to make.. the best phones in the industry!
The second thing being switching to OLED displays, as their in-house LCDs are so-so. And third being to stop making stupid decisions with their cameras. as they're using the best sensors, but then cannibalizing them with lack of OIS and bland software processing.
Otherwise, did you see the review for the new Xperia XZ Compact? God damn!
http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_xz1_compact-review-1660.php

Don't eye tests on the comparisons show the iPhone succeeding in one area and Samsung phones usually in another? But the one reviewers "count" as more important fall in favor of the iPhone, at least for real world usage?

They used smaller sensors than Android phones and tried to mask it with making them lower res (so each pixel is not that much smaller) and great software processing. Last year's iPhones still used freaking 1/3'' sensors. That's the size of a sensor used by mid range chinese phones.
This year details are yet to be revealed, but apparently in a traditional Apple fashion, they even lied about increasing sensor size:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60151245

It's not that they were eye test reviews, they just used inferior cameras, and you can see that in the photo comparisons.
You can see it here, compared to the same year's Galaxy, how hard the iPhones are struggling, trying to make it up with strong software processing, but losing details everywhere:

 

[dilla]

Looks like the Pixel C has a discount for UK people. Some are speculating an update?

Pixel 2 leaked by evleaks with and without the case. https://twitter.com/evleaks/status/...tfw&ref_url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/

Looks good. I'll consider it when it's next time to upgrade.

I've been looking at iOS alternatives for a lot of my Android apps. Apple messed up big time by not allowing system-wide ad blocking. Just for shitty-ass Safari browser.

 

[dilla]

NotebookCheck did an iPhone 8 review. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-iPhone-8-Smartphone-Review.250930.0.html#toc-verdict

I'm sharing because it's interesting to see the time on battery between the flagship phones, namely the phablets. At idle, the iPhone 8+ seems to be the best but in usage, like WiFi for browsing, Samsung seems to have that down. I think the Samsung devices have slightly bigger batteries compared to the iPhones, right?

And at max load, the iPhone still uses more power than the Note. I thought Apple's chip designs were what gave it the better performance with more efficiency?

 

[masta247]

Looks like the Pixel C has a discount for UK people. Some are speculating an update?



Pixel 2 leaked by evleaks with and without the case. https://twitter.com/evleaks/status/914912903450578945?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/



Looks good. I'll consider it when it's next time to upgrade.

The Pixel 2 XL looks good - the one made by LG. It is based on the LG G6 and V30 phones. Both are great phones minus some imperfections like the cameras and local limitations (some regions got wireless charging, some got higher quality audio, some didn't etc.).
The regular Pixel 2 will be super old school and is made by HTC. Nothing to see there.

If I was looking for a phablet I'd be in heaven right now - between the Note 8, LG V30 and Pixel 2 XL that's a tough one as they're all nothing but the best phones around.

NotebookCheck did an iPhone 8 review. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-iPhone-8-Smartphone-Review.250930.0.html#toc-verdict



I'm sharing because it's interesting to see the time on battery between the flagship phones, namely the phablets. At idle, the iPhone 8+ seems to be the best but in usage, like WiFi for browsing, Samsung seems to have that down. I think the Samsung devices have slightly bigger batteries compared to the iPhones, right?



And at max load, the iPhone still uses more power than the Note. I thought Apple's chip designs were what gave it the better performance with more efficiency?

Apple mobile chips are not the best with efficiency. They are the best for performance, period. But iPhone 8 has a massive chipset that contains 4 huge cores, much bigger than anything ARM, Samsung or Qualcomm make. You can see that in performance benchmarks. The multicore performance is almost double that of the Snapdragon 835. All of those chips are made on pretty much the same process, so that performance ain't free. Apple's philosophy in chip design took a weird turn after the iPhone 5s and 6 when Apple's chips were all around the best AND most efficient, thanks to Jim Keller who designed them before he left for AMD to design Ryzen.
The dual core Apple chips of the iPhone 6 era were a masterpiece. Now they are just the fastest, all else be damned. They make more sense in a tablet.

Otherwise the battery behavior makes sense - iOS is more power efficient due to how it freezes background processes, while Samsung phones are over engineered to the T as far as efficiency goes, with their weak spot being Android's poor standby battery optimization. Samsung's display engineering is particularly the most efficient in the field.
The slightly bigger battery helps too.

Speaking of, either I've been hit by Apple's planned obsolescence after all, or iOS 11 is a battery hog. I used to charge my iPad Air like clockwork - once a week. Now with exactly the same usage I have to charge it every second day. I wish I knew, as the only other change I'm noticing is the minor but inconvenient icon rearrangement to better suit the iPhone X, and the fact that control center doesn't disable wifi and bluetooth when I tell it to

 

[dilla]

The Pixel 2 XL looks good - the one made by LG. It is based on the LG G6 and V30 phones. Both are great phones minus some imperfections like the cameras and local limitations (some regions got wireless charging, some got higher quality audio, some didn't etc.).
The regular Pixel 2 will be super old school and is made by HTC. Nothing to see there.

If I was looking for a phablet I'd be in heaven right now - between the Note 8, LG V30 and Pixel 2 XL that's a tough one as they're all nothing but the best phones around.




Apple mobile chips are not the best with efficiency. They are the best for performance, period. But iPhone 8 has a massive chipset that contains 4 huge cores, much bigger than anything ARM, Samsung or Qualcomm make. You can see that in performance benchmarks. The multicore performance is almost double that of the Snapdragon 835. All of those chips are made on pretty much the same process, so that performance ain't free. Apple's philosophy in chip design took a weird turn after the iPhone 5s and 6 when Apple's chips were all around the best AND most efficient, thanks to Jim Keller who designed them before he left for AMD to design Ryzen.
The dual core Apple chips of the iPhone 6 era were a masterpiece. Now they are just the fastest, all else be damned. They make more sense in a tablet.

Otherwise the battery behavior makes sense - iOS is more power efficient due to how it freezes background processes, while Samsung phones are over engineered to the T as far as efficiency goes, with their weak spot being Android's poor standby battery optimization. Samsung's display engineering is particularly the most efficient in the field.
The slightly bigger battery helps too.

Speaking of, either I've been hit by Apple's planned obsolescence after all, or iOS 11 is a battery hog. I used to charge my iPad Air like clockwork - once a week. Now with exactly the same usage I have to charge it every second day. I wish I knew, as the only other change I'm noticing is the minor but inconvenient icon rearrangement to better suit the iPhone X, and the fact that control center doesn't disable wifi and bluetooth when I tell it to

iOS 11 is just being a bitch for everyone. I check the Apple sub from time to time and I was on the dev preview of iOS since the iOS 7 days. 11 has been buggy as shit and same with the High Sierra dev preview. Both are final releases but still have some shitty bugs in them.

My iPad Air sees light usage and needs to be charged weekly. Before, it was the same usage but 2+ weeks of usage at a time. The menu changes are pretty dumb and make it frustrating to use. It's turning me off iOS as an option, which is shitty in itself because now I just get the impression no one gives a shit about user experience and is instead having a pissing contest with each other for fitting as many cores as they can or fastest processors instead of making the OS more stable and efficient. This goes for both Android and iOS.

Standby time is OK on my S7 after I disabled AdGuard. Over night it was about a 1.7% per hour drain, according to GSam Battery. During the day, standby time is still I the 3s but I guess I do check my phone every few hours, even on a slow day.

What are some settings and options to enable and disable on TouchWiz to still have push notifications but keep background apps from using too much power? I feel like I've gone through all the settings and avoided using apps to fix the issue excessively like Greenify or Doze.

 

[masta247]

iOS 11 is just being a bitch for everyone. I check the Apple sub from time to time and I was on the dev preview of iOS since the iOS 7 days. 11 has been buggy as shit and same with the High Sierra dev preview. Both are final releases but still have some shitty bugs in them.



My iPad Air sees light usage and needs to be charged weekly. Before, it was the same usage but 2+ weeks of usage at a time. The menu changes are pretty dumb and make it frustrating to use. It's turning me off iOS as an option, which is shitty in itself because now I just get the impression no one gives a shit about user experience and is instead having a pissing contest with each other for fitting as many cores as they can or fastest processors instead of making the OS more stable and efficient. This goes for both Android and iOS.



Standby time is OK on my S7 after I disabled AdGuard. Over night it was about a 1.7% per hour drain, according to GSam Battery. During the day, standby time is still I the 3s but I guess I do check my phone every few hours, even on a slow day.



What are some settings and options to enable and disable on TouchWiz to still have push notifications but keep background apps from using too much power? I feel like I've gone through all the settings and avoided using apps to fix the issue excessively like Greenify or Doze.

Samsung's own maintenance app and its app power monitor are more than sufficient for me. Due to how deeply rooted in Samsung's implementation of Android it is, it works much better than any third party solutions, or Doze, as you actually have control over what's running on its own and what is put to sleep.
I basically chose "save power" on everything other than a few apps I want consistent notifications from (messengers mostly.). Nothing else opens up on its own in the background.
I charge my now 2.5 year old Galaxy S6 when I go to sleep and I never worry about battery life, and I use my phone quite a bit every day. The only times it doesn't last until night time is when I play Pokemon Go with the local crowds here in Thailand, lol.

Regarding iOS 11, I wish I knew it's gonna be like that. I really liked iOS 10, but 11 is only painful - technically, and aesthetically. It's much less convenient to use now.

Regarding the piss contest - I know. There are things that I hate about Android that have been there since day one, and despite improvements over the years they mostly resulted in more "casual" aesthetics. There are still underlying flaws to how it was designed, that bother me every single day. Mostly its autonomy and how it wastes energy on opening things and performing tasks on its own that only add more work for me to control and shut down later. In that regard, I do strongly prefer iOS, but it also isn't perfect to the other extreme - by freezing/clearing from RAM each background task that I actually would like to be kept open as soon as I minimize it/open something else.
The UIs of both OSes are so alike these days though, which is also surprising. Apart from iOS missing/restricting a couple features that Android has, those OSes will even feel the same, apart from having different, unaddressed technical flaws regarding how they work.

A big issue I see is that there are problems with the fundamental designs of Android and iOS, and with each update they were just iterating and adding stuff on top of them, making it even more difficult to change the underlying issues at the core and require more power to run them regardless of whether the user actually wants that - power that comes with energy usage that should be so avoided on a mobile device as a top priority.
Due to that I sometimes feel like we're missing actually a great mobile operating system that finally does things spot on and behaves exactly like a perfect mobile operating system is supposed to. We're missing a new player with power to enter an already contested market, a market with so many apps already out there, and to convince people and OEMs that they have the best product. The problem is there's no company with the money, talent and interest in doing so at the moment. Microsoft tried, but Microsoft is incapable these days, in need of drastic changes to management, and now deeply rotten and failure-driven company culture.

 

[masta247]

Btw, the Pixel 2 XL appears to be lovely so far:
http://www.gsmarena.com/the_motherload_of_pixel_xl_2_specs_leak-news-27549.php

Everything points to it being the LG V30 with Google modifications, so I hope the price is lower as all LG "Nexus" phones were in the 300-350$ range despite much higher prices on LG branded options. If it isn't, that means Google went all out with the margins. If it is, and the reviews are good I might seriously consider it as the V30 is already a great phone, and with no LG software and horrible dual cam setup, this might be a phone to look out for.

 

[masta247]

Btw, the Pixel 2 XL appears to be lovely so far:

http://www.gsmarena.com/the_motherload_of_pixel_xl_2_specs_leak-news-27549.php



Everything points to it being the LG V30 with Google modifications, so I hope the price is lower as all LG "Nexus" phones were in the 300-350$ range despite much higher prices on LG branded options. If it isn't, that means Google went all out with the margins. If it is, and the reviews are good I might seriously consider it as the V30 is already a great phone, and with no LG software and horrible dual cam setup, this might be a phone to look out for.

Nevermind, the lack of headphone jack, wireless charging and price killed it.

That said, the Google events became really cringy to watch. I didn't learn anything, but heard a lot of big words describing the simplest technologies. They clearly took a hint at being annoying from Apple events. Seriously, does anyone actually like that?

 

[dilla]

Nevermind, the lack of headphone jack, wireless charging and price killed it.

That said, the Google events became really cringy to watch. I didn't learn anything, but heard a lot of big words describing the simplest technologies. They clearly took a hint at being annoying from Apple events. Seriously, does anyone actually like that?

The thing is with Apple, those "cringe-worth names" actually stick and become a hallmark feature. MagSafe, Siri, Retina display, etc. Everyone uses those terms and finds them useful.

I'm not sure what you're talking about in regards to the Google event because I didn't watch it. But if you asked me the reason why I didn't vs why I do for Apple Keynotes, it's probably what you described. They're lame and even if it's a new feature the industry doesn't have as yet, I find the novelty of it wears off very quickly. I've experienced this so many times since I paid attention since 2010 or 2011 or so, that 7 years later I learned my lesson. I'll wait until some blog talks about it and more often than not I won't even bother downloading the app or searching the menus for the feature. s

I like the Pixel 2, especially the XL, but I'm slowly being backed in to Samsung's corner and getting another Samsung device after not finding everything I need on iOS with the iPhone (so far) and these Google phones basically being the same price, or more, as a Galaxy or Note device. And I'm not too keen on LG after several models had their boot loop issues.

I think I'll just stick with my S7 for as long as I can because part of the problem we have now is people upgrading too quickly. At least I can play some positive role in that and hang on to my S7 until I absolutely need to upgrade.

 

[Casey]

I watched the Google event. The Pixel 2 XL looks fucking awesome. Also I found out that I got a big raise today. So all in all, a great day. I shall be buying a Pixel 2 XL as soon as it's available

 

[dilla]

Nevermind, the lack of headphone jack, wireless charging and price killed it.

That said, the Google events became really cringy to watch. I didn't learn anything, but heard a lot of big words describing the simplest technologies. They clearly took a hint at being annoying from Apple events. Seriously, does anyone actually like that?

Somehow I forgot about the Pixel Buds. It has some neat features but that battery life sounds awful. 6 hours, it says, but the bud case also holds a charge that allows for 24 hours of total listening.

And the price...$160. A little less impressive it has the wire in the back when the AirPods don't. I think what will be most important is the sound quality. I don't know who's making the buds but if it's crappy sounding, no one is paying $160 for those. Relative to the AirPods or other bluetooth headphones in that price range.

One feature I liked is that it translates audio in to different languages. That's neat but still not enough to make me want a pair. I could always just open the Translate app on my phone and have someone speak in to it and be just fine. I've never had to do it, actually, so even less of a reason.

 

[dilla]

Bezel comparison. https://twitter.com/vladsavov/statu...r/Android/comments/74exib/s8_next_to_pixel_2/

Edge is coming to iOS and Android: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex...-edge-for-ios-and-android-microsoft-launcher/

I use Safari on my Mac because it seems to be the fastest and most efficient. But I just heard about Firefox Quantum and it turns out I already had it on my old MBP because I did the Nightlies for that. It just never said the name was changed.

I don't want another browser on my Mac since I'm fine with Safari, but have any of you heard or used Quantum and is it really as fast as they're making it out to be?