Technology Android

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
How are you optimistic about the Pixel 2 after all the supply issues that plagued the first one?

Weren't there quality issues too? I feel like I read something where people were complaining about it and a lot of "Google should stick to software" was thrown around because the hardware wasn't up to snuff. Maybe not power wise, because it's a powerful phone, but more about build quality.

There haven't been supply issues in the UK. My local Carphone Warehouse branch has had stock since release.

I'm not aware of any serious quality issues. Most of the criticism I've heard has been down to the lack of waterproofing, the lack of front-facing speakers like the N6 and N6P both had, and the fairly unimaginative build quality.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I understand why it's done, but it's so shitty that the S8 and S7 had different variants that gave vastly different experiences for their users.



This UFS stuff seems pretty important in regards to read/write speed https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s8/how-to/ufs-2-0-2-1-identify-flash-chip-s8-t3601656


WTF? That's very surprising. This is basically an older memory controller on the Snapdragon version, and also made by Toshiba, which are not as good as Samsung's.

The difference is not huge in speed specs, it is tangible in quality, and I'm surprised that they diversified that much this time (as in more than just the SOC and camera sensor). The thread on XDA is focused on memory access and transfer speeds, but it feels a little bit like back patting, as the Samsung controllers are superior as they are based on their SSD controllers, which have the best garbage collection, wear leveling etc, making them the far better choice for endurance compared to Toshiba's (Rebranded OCZ, actually). If you read reviews of those SSDs and their memory controllers, you'd get the point where the difference lays. Samsung's storage is best rated because their controllers are more advanced and they take better care of the memory.
It would be an exaggeration as the Toshiba controller isn't bad (as it's still UFS, not eMMC), but to present a point, the original Nexus 7 was let down by the memory controller that wore out the memory quickly and made the device almost unusable after months of intense use. Mine took about a minute to launch Chrome and ~5 minutes to update a single app before it ended up in my shelf.

The main problem of mobile storage as far as I'm concerned is that it wears out with time, not that it's slow out of the box, so I'd want the best as far as storage controller is concerned. If phone storage was as advanced as SSDs, 32GB of storage would still wear out 8 times faster than 256GB based on capacity alone, due to wear leveling and the fact that a single memory cell is being written to 8 times more frequently since there's 8 times fewer of them to work with. Add to this the fact that the phone is on 24/7, often comes without SD cards that could give it some breathing room and even Samsung's UFS and Apple's SSD-inspired controllers (while infinitely better than eMMC found on most devices) aren't as advanced as a full fledged SSD drive controller, and you can see why I would care about my phone's memory controller.

As far as tablets are concerned, yeah I think the iPad is the best ARM tablet, surprisingly the Android ones are crippled except of the Galaxy Tab S, which are great but still have really sub par chipsets for some unknown reason.
The point with iPads not selling well for me is that I'm on the original iPad Air and I honestly can't tell a real life difference between that and the iPad Pro, for instance. They look and feel exactly the same, and because even the Air still performs very well, the paper performance difference is not even noticeable in real usage except for game load times. I saw numerous benchmarks only to realize that in real life usage, even the newest games run at the same 60fps on the Air anyway. We can't even talk about things like updated cameras, as that doesn't matter much on tablets, but there's not much more that changed as far as real world usage is concerned over the last 4 years. While that shows how little progress happened on Apple's camp, that also shows how good the original Air was, and that software is still made in mind to work smoothly on older devices, with no killer apps taking advantage of the spare processing power of the newest devices, apart only from cutting edge graphics benchmarks.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
WTF? That's very surprising. This is basically an older memory controller on the Snapdragon version, and also made by Toshiba, which are not as good as Samsung's.

The difference is not huge in speed specs, it is tangible in quality, and I'm surprised that they diversified that much this time (as in more than just the SOC and camera sensor). The thread on XDA is focused on memory access and transfer speeds, but it feels a little bit like back patting, as the Samsung controllers are superior as they are based on their SSD controllers, which have the best garbage collection, wear leveling etc, making them the far better choice for endurance compared to Toshiba's (Rebranded OCZ, actually). If you read reviews of those SSDs and their memory controllers, you'd get the point where the difference lays. Samsung's storage is best rated because their controllers are more advanced and they take better care of the memory.
It would be an exaggeration as the Toshiba controller isn't bad (as it's still UFS, not eMMC), but to present a point, the original Nexus 7 was let down by the memory controller that wore out the memory quickly and made the device almost unusable after months of intense use. Mine took about a minute to launch Chrome and ~5 minutes to update a single app before it ended up in my shelf.

The main problem of mobile storage as far as I'm concerned is that it wears out with time, not that it's slow out of the box, so I'd want the best as far as storage controller is concerned. If phone storage was as advanced as SSDs, 32GB of storage would still wear out 8 times faster than 256GB based on capacity alone, due to wear leveling and the fact that a single memory cell is being written to 8 times more frequently since there's 8 times fewer of them to work with. Add to this the fact that the phone is on 24/7, often comes without SD cards that could give it some breathing room and even Samsung's UFS and Apple's SSD-inspired controllers (while infinitely better than eMMC found on most devices) aren't as advanced as a full fledged SSD drive controller, and you can see why I would care about my phone's memory controller.

As far as tablets are concerned, yeah I think the iPad is the best ARM tablet, surprisingly the Android ones are crippled except of the Galaxy Tab S, which are great but still have really sub par chipsets for some unknown reason.
The point with iPads not selling well for me is that I'm on the original iPad Air and I honestly can't tell a real life difference between that and the iPad Pro, for instance. They look and feel exactly the same, and because even the Air still performs very well, the paper performance difference is not even noticeable in real usage except for game load times. I saw numerous benchmarks only to realize that in real life usage, even the newest games run at the same 60fps on the Air anyway. We can't even talk about things like updated cameras, as that doesn't matter much on tablets, but there's not much more that changed as far as real world usage is concerned over the last 4 years. While that shows how little progress happened on Apple's camp, that also shows how good the original Air was, and that software is still made in mind to work smoothly on older devices, with no killer apps taking advantage of the spare processing power of the newest devices, apart only from cutting edge graphics benchmarks.
I'm just upset that there's branching off in the internals in the phones. And it seems the international version has been better for the last two iterations of Samsung's offerings. I know it can be the other way around where the US got better hardware, or better pricing, earlier availability, etc. But I was hoping the remedy was to bring everyone to parity on stuff like that and not simply shift the direction in which the shaft swings. The Exynos chipset seems to be far superior, be it in performance or efficiency. Performance and battery life seem to be better on Exynos S7s compared to the SDs. Some US folks bought unlocked Exynos models as a result.

About the iPad, I use my Air randomly. Sometimes it gets heavy use for a few months at a time and other times it sits and gathers dust. But when I do use it, I don't feel it lacking at all. I don't game so my benchmark wouldn't include gaming performance but just simply using the Air, I don't feel any lag and apps get updated with new features but still seem to run just as fast as when they ran in 2014. I can't imagine upgrading this thing anytime soon, even for the Pro which has better hardware, a bit bigger, and has the ability to be written on. Apple really found the sweet spot with the Air and lots of users don't feel the need to upgrade unless they need the features of the Pro for school or work. I don't have any qualms with iOS on the iPads but maybe Apple can slow down and put some more thought into subsequent releases of iOS. Make it more efficient, if possible, and really polish the thing out. If sales are slowing, fine; make it worthwhile to own an iPad instead of slapping a new camera in it and selling it as new just for the sake of maintaining the update cycle.

I haven't heard much from the Android tablet OEMs. I see the Samsung Tab or something get mentioned here and there but it seems like the big players like Moto/Lenovo, ASUS, LG, etc., all kind of bowed out of the tablet game.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
There haven't been supply issues in the UK. My local Carphone Warehouse branch has had stock since release.

I'm not aware of any serious quality issues. Most of the criticism I've heard has been down to the lack of waterproofing, the lack of front-facing speakers like the N6 and N6P both had, and the fairly unimaginative build quality.

Yeah, maybe it was design issues and not quality. While the hardware was solid, a lot of users had issues with stuff that you mentioned, like speaker position.

I think 6P users are reporting the issues with a drastically reduced battery capacity.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Yeah, maybe it was design issues and not quality. While the hardware was solid, a lot of users had issues with stuff that you mentioned, like speaker position.

I think 6P users are reporting the issues with a drastically reduced battery capacity.

Yep - happened to me with the 6P. Early shutdown and terrible battery life, started happening about 10 months in.

I RMA'd it just one week short of 12 months ownership and they replaced the battery, and it's been perfect ever since. In fact, better than it ever was. AccuBattery shows at 105% battery health and I can easily get 24 hours life out of it. For example, right now it's at 39% after being off charge for 17 hours, and it's showing that it'll last another 12 hours.

I guess Huawei didn't properly QA the first set of batteries used. Either way, more than happy enough it with it now and it'll last me until the Pixel 2 drops
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
But then there's no way you're using the phone you normally do if you've only used 40% in a day. You're a heavy user and I imagine you keep GPS and bluetooth on at all times as you use social media or browse the web.

I've gotten my usage down to less than 2% drain an hour and that's still with Twitter syncing in the background. But Bluetooth is off and GPS is on battery saver mode. I'm not even using Greenify anymore since the OS seems to realize what apps to put to sleep and when to do so. But I'll still lose 50% battery after a day of moderate use without streaming video. And that's with Accubattery putting me at 1900 mAh out of 3000 for my design capacity. But I'm not 100% in belief of Accubattery because then that means my S7, at 100% capacity (new), would be netting me closer to 7 hours of SOT instead of the 3.5-4 hours I'm getting now at 69%.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
This thread seems to be trying to hash out Ryzen on Macs possibly happening.

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/6d48hh/ryzen_macs_looking_more_possible/

No idea about all the numbers and tasks they're throwing around comparing Xeon with whatever AMD's servers are, but it's interesting the article linked is giving some hope to this actually happening.

The comments even mention ruining Intel's relationship with Apple over this, which is one point brought up regarding ThunderBolt.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
This thread seems to be trying to hash out Ryzen on Macs possibly happening.

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/6d48hh/ryzen_macs_looking_more_possible/

No idea about all the numbers and tasks they're throwing around comparing Xeon with whatever AMD's servers are, but it's interesting the article linked is giving some hope to this actually happening.

The comments even mention ruining Intel's relationship with Apple over this, which is one point brought up regarding ThunderBolt.
Thunderbolt going open, Ryzen performing better and being better at productivity, more energy efficient and its weak spot being just slightly behind on gaming than Intel's best which actually does not matter on Macs makes them a perfect canditade for future Macs actually. Interesting that there are so many people wanting that.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Always makes me wonder how surreal the US is sometimes. Its the only place in the world where people would actually use CDMA (Verizon, Sprint) where there are also legit GSM/Sim based alternatives on the very same market. It is actually the only place with such situation happening.

That said, theres something weird about the carriers there - last weekend I went to LA and my phone battery would die insanely fast on AT&T there. It is in line with what I experienced last year when in the US too. Always made it feel weird. I have my European sim on roaming here in Canada and as I dont use it at all other than for checking texts it last for about a week on stand by, and its an old Xperia Android smartphone. I didnt use my main phone in LA that much, due to roaming costs and all, and my phone would be dead before the day ended so I had to travel with a power bank. Super weird.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
But then there's no way you're using the phone you normally do if you've only used 40% in a day. You're a heavy user and I imagine you keep GPS and bluetooth on at all times as you use social media or browse the web.

I've gotten my usage down to less than 2% drain an hour and that's still with Twitter syncing in the background. But Bluetooth is off and GPS is on battery saver mode. I'm not even using Greenify anymore since the OS seems to realize what apps to put to sleep and when to do so. But I'll still lose 50% battery after a day of moderate use without streaming video. And that's with Accubattery putting me at 1900 mAh out of 3000 for my design capacity. But I'm not 100% in belief of Accubattery because then that means my S7, at 100% capacity (new), would be netting me closer to 7 hours of SOT instead of the 3.5-4 hours I'm getting now at 69%.

I was indeed using it as normal. 60% drain in a day is pretty standard on a stock 6P, at least on Android O.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Thunderbolt going open, Ryzen performing better and being better at productivity, more energy efficient and its weak spot being just slightly behind on gaming than Intel's best which actually does not matter on Macs makes them a perfect canditade for future Macs actually. Interesting that there are so many people wanting that.
Did Intel reveal an "i9" this week?

Also, I read that Intel was trying to make TB royalty-free, so that may take away one barrier for AMD to return to Apple in their Macs.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Looks like Andy Rubin's Essential Phone isn't getting quite the reception people were hoping for.

And the OnePlus 2 isn't getting Nougat?

Can any OEM do everything right?
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Did Intel reveal an "i9" this week?



Also, I read that Intel was trying to make TB royalty-free, so that may take away one barrier for AMD to return to Apple in their Macs.
It's a completely messed, over-night reaction to the 32 thread Ryzen Threadripper. It wasn't "poorly planned", it was not planned at all, with Intel having planned only the enthusiast i7s, and at release last week just mentioning i9 briefly without giving any details or having an actually manufactured chip to show. The i9 can't even be supported properly by board makers, with some not having Thunderbolt work with it because of lack of time to implement it. It's a really huge fail, it had even Linus of Tech Tips, a mostly Intel guy, say this (most interesting parts start at 3:30 and 9:00 regarding i9):

 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
It's a completely messed, over-night reaction to the 32 thread Ryzen Threadripper. It wasn't "poorly planned", it was not planned at all, with Intel having planned only the enthusiast i7s, and at release last week just mentioning i9 briefly without giving any details or having an actually manufactured chip to show. The i9 can't even be supported properly by board makers, with some not having Thunderbolt work with it because of lack of time to implement it. It's a really huge fail, it had even Linus of Tech Tips, a mostly Intel guy, say this (most interesting parts start at 3:30 and 9:00 regarding i9):


WWDC is today. Seems that AMD is in attendance but they make the GPUs so probably their presence is the norm. I doubt we hear about Tyzen somehow weaseling its way into Macs this time around.

Some insider came on to Reddit yesterday to drop some info. I guess we'll see in a few minutes if he was right.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
No AMD for Apple just yet. That's OK, that wasn't expected this time around.

Apple is getting blatant in its ripping off of customers for entry-level machines now. The 13" MBP went down in price but also went from 256GB SSD to 128. No major update to the MBP design and the MBA is still being sold after a minor update as well.

I got my hands on the dev betas for iOS 11 and for macOS High Sierra. iOS got a decent refresh in design and I'm liking it on my Air. I'm actually surprised the Air has been supported so far and still isn't too far off from the high-end iPad whatever we're on now. Minus the Pro, which is moderately better hardware and Pen compatility, so many people are still using their original Air from 2013. There hasn't been a major enough bump in specs for the Air 2 and beyond.

OnePlus 5 is going to be an octa-core lol https://twitter.com/evleaks/status/872429933783638016

And boy did they rip off the iPhone 7 http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/06/06/exclusive-this-is-the-oneplus-5/
 

S O F I

Administrator
Staff member
this is the only thread still poppin'.

question - are discussions about phones/tablets obsolete? aren't we all past that and in our mid-life crises? like, masta, are you having babies soon? what's the plan?
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
this is the only thread still poppin'.

question - are discussions about phones/tablets obsolete? aren't we all past that and in our mid-life crises? like, masta, are you having babies soon? what's the plan?
Phones and tablets are interesting, why would babies be better? I will have one maybe after I give up on my dreams and hopes for my own life too. Unless babies start coming with wifis first.

As a side note, about 3 weeks ago I spent a night at the Seattle Airport. Not even a smoking area, and I survived on a 24/7 mcDonalds, courtesy of meal tickets provided by Delta (God bless America and the president). Would have called you but I don't have your number, and if I did I wouldn't want to wake up a family man a night before another day of his grind, providing for his family and kids so they can pay off their dream home, the vision that is becoming increasingly distant in the housing bubble of the Pacific Northwest's almost finest. So how's your early life mid-life crisis going?
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
You're gonna root your baby and flash a custom ROM on him. Just flash APKs with his developmental milestones.

"My kid can walk and read at three weeks!"

"Fuck getting OTAs from life, this kid is going to have all the features the Nexus kids have without all the bloat."
 

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