#Occupy Protests...

[Da_Funk]

The problem with saying that the top 1% pay 50% of the taxes in California is that while they may pay more in absolute terms, they don't pay more in terms of percentage of income.

If I make 100 dollars in a month and pay 50 dollars in taxes and you make 1000 in a month and pay a 100, I'm paying more as percentage of income. I'm the one getting more fucked than you even though you paid 50 more dollars. I stopped listening to his dumb ass rant as soon as he quoted that statistic. It's the same-old glenn beck conservative bullshit.

I won't argue this. What I took from him, and what I agree with, is that our generation feels entitled to "their" piece of the pie.

But.... That isn't right it's bullshit.... I can't talk on Cali... But....

In England the 1% pay fuck all in taxes. They exploit every loop hole going, because they have money to spend on super smart accountants to do this for them. They pay fuck all income tax, they pay fuck all inheritance tax, they pay fuck all capital gains and they pay fuck all stamp duty.... It's the middle classes that pay most of the taxes, not the 1%. Anyone here who aspires to be rich, and relates to the 1%, and considers themselves capitalists is delusional. YOU WILL NEVER BE PART OF THE 1%. It's an impossible dream. One usually only achieved by being born into the family. People like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are in a severe minority.

By all means be a part of the system. You have no choice. Study hard, earn as much as you can. But don't be brainwashed by consumerism. Rappers are the worst of the lot. Instead of putting their money into worthwhile causes and helping others get out of poverty, they buy watches and cars. Just what the 1% want you to do. What use is a shiny watch - None. And they inspire the youth to want the same.... It's another tool to keep you in your place and keep the order.

I know I sound crazy, feel free to challenge my opinions....

I know I won't be part of the 1%, but I am going to have a lot of money and you can be assured that i will find every single way possible to avoid paying taxes that end up equaling a bunch of government handouts.

This is what I will be paying in taxes next year (from the Australian government website):

$23,630 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000.

^Fuck that.

No, the first goal of a protest is to get the msg out. Of course you could claim that the should start a party etc, but then again. we do have a gov, we do have 'leaders', we have all these institutions. SO The primary goal as I see it is to tell them that WE as people expect them to do something about the system. So basically they air their opinion and that a good thing.
Of course, if the establishment doesn't listen and doesn't change anything, it might be a possibility to get more organized but again, I don't think you should critize the people right now for not going all the way. Maybe we go there, but just aren't there yet. For the moment, I think we should enjoy that people actually try to do something - instead of watching TV, that's a plus.
Of course the movement would be better organied if there was a 'leader', but that's not how this form of protest works. Even though it might be huard to understand for you, the fact that ecerybody is equal in this movement is what makes it attractiv for people to join. No obligations, no fear, you protest as long and as loud as you want to and can. Also, the other side would love to have someone they can put a target on his or her back, it's easier to corrupt or silence the movement that way. That's also why the gov has no idea how to handle this....because it's just 'the people' ... so even though of course, not to have a structure hurts the movement at times, you gotta also understand it is its strength. And give it a lil time, if it grows and keeps going, maybe a structure is developed but for now it's good the way it is. It'd be just nice for the politicans (that actually should represent the people) to react. I doubt they will. And yes I fear that at some point peaceful protest could turn into something ugly, which nobody can be intersted - even though, as Sofi mentioned, maybe is sometimes needed in history.
Anyway, a friend of mine is occupying my city for a couple of weeks and it's damn cold out there, you gotta respect it....

This movement won't change anything. These types of outcries have been happening since the 60's. Each generation feels like they are going to bring about change. The only thing that has changed: the rich have gotten richer, the poor have gotten poorer.

 

[S O F I]

Rappers are the worst of the lot. Instead of putting their money into worthwhile causes and helping others get out of poverty, they buy watches and cars. Just what the 1% want you to do. What use is a shiny watch - None. And they inspire the youth to want the same.... It's another tool to keep you in your place and keep the order.

I know I sound crazy, feel free to challenge my opinions....

You have to understand where the rappers are coming from. For a lot of successful rappers, their dream of becoming rich was unfathomable. To come out of poverty and become a millionaire is nuts. So of course you're going to want nice things. The flashy jewelry is there to tell the people you're successful. Also, most rappers are Black. There's history to consider. The expensive cars and the flashy jewelry are there to tell the white man to suck a dick. Like, look at me, I'm living it up too even if you didn't want me to.

"

We filling up the gas for Rollies​

Upgrade to 26's after riding Kobe's​

​

My cousin from the South,​

slavery started in the South​

​

and I bet ya
He overcompensates for the life of his ancestors
So blame it on the 400 years we never saw, the reason why the next 400 we gotta floss​

"

 

[S O F I]

I won't argue this. What I took from him, and what I agree with, is that our generation feels entitled to "their" piece of the pie.

If our generation feels entitled to their piece of the pie, it's because we were brainwashed into believing that. It's not the kids fault. Everybody is drinking the Kool-Aid. In America, you're brainwashed to no end that if you work hard and get good grades in school, you will live a comfortable life. The American Dream used to be the bare minimum. A good-paying job, a mortgage you can afford, living expenses you can afford like extremely expensive day care nowadays. For a lot of our generation now after the financial crisis, that simple dream seems unattainable. It's possible but it shouldn't be this hard and it's this hard because of exactly what the Occupy movement is complaining about. There's that stupid 53% movement or something. One army veteran or some shit kept saying how he's holding down three jobs and going to school and that he's able to do it, basically telling everyone else that they're lazy. If in 2011, you have to hold down three jobs to maintain a decent life, then let's fucking go nuclear on ourselves and rebuild this planet. Don't mistake this for complaining on my part. I'll be alright. I've been through two wars, I don't expect utopia. I'm just saying, people deserve better and there's nothing constructive or beneficial in ranting like Adam Carolla.

 

[Da_Funk]

If our generation feels entitled to their piece of the pie, it's because we were brainwashed into believing that. It's not the kids fault. Everybody is drinking the Kool-Aid. In America, you're brainwashed to no end that if you work hard and get good grades in school, you will live a comfortable life.

Placing the blame on external sources is what I don't agree with. How can that sentiment be acceptable to anyone? Working hard doesn't get you anywhere in life. Working hard and working smart are what take you somewhere. If you took a laughable degree (and there are a lot of those) and expect a good job because of it, that fail belongs solely to you.

Note I'm using you in a general sense, not directing it towards you.

The American Dream used to be the bare minimum. A good-paying job, a mortgage you can afford, living expenses you can afford like extremely expensive day care nowadays. For a lot of our generation now after the financial crisis, that simple dream seems unattainable. It's possible but it shouldn't be this hard and it's this hard because of exactly what the Occupy movement is complaining about.

But why should those things be given to you? Those things aren't rights, they're privileges that you have to work for. After 18 years of life, I think this something you should have figured out. If you haven't, you lose, or at the very best are placed at a severe disadvantage. Life ain't fair.

Again, I'm speaking from a purely Canadian point of view and my opinions are based on whats happening in Canada, and the type of people I know who support these movements.

There's that stupid 53% movement or something. One army veteran or some shit kept saying how he's holding down three jobs and going to school and that he's able to do it, basically telling everyone else that they're lazy. If in 2011, you have to hold down three jobs to maintain a decent life, then let's fucking go nuclear on ourselves and rebuild this planet.

Why? Why should life be easy in 2011? Because we have technology? I think thats a very interesting belief.

 

[Pittsey]

I just want to point out my life is comfortable and I am somewhat a bit of a hypocrite. I spend $500 on a jumper and own the expensive watches (not jewellery - I am not gay or a rapper) that I slagged off above. But I am somewhat of an idealist and seek fairness among the people. I agree with a lot of what TheMenace says, Lobbiests are an abomination. Also... The way things are going we are going to have about 4 companies that own every other world wide.... Monopolies are where we are heading, the small business is doomed.

 

[S O F I]

Placing the blame on external sources is what I don't agree with. How can that sentiment be acceptable to anyone? Working hard doesn't get you anywhere in life. Working hard and working smart are what take you somewhere. If you took a laughable degree (and there are a lot of those) and expect a good job because of it, that fail belongs solely to you.

There's blame to go around. I do agree that humanities and liberal arts degrees put recent graduates at a disadvantage but that alone doesn't account for the real unemployment rate of around 17% in the US. Many law school graduates can't find work. There's a huge uproar in the law school education system about it. I don't think you'd say a Juris Doctor is a laughable degree. The issue of unemployed liberal arts majors is largely a red herring, used to distract from real economic problems. The real issue, which is an external source, is lack of demand in the US economy. Businesses are hoarding cash and refusing to invest because they're comfortable with the Fed paying them interest on it.

But why should those things be given to you? Those things aren't rights, they're privileges that you have to work for. After 18 years of life, I think this something you should have figured out. If you haven't, you lose, or at the very best are placed at a severe disadvantage. Life ain't fair.

I'm not saying they should be given to you. You're twisting my words. I am saying, in the US, people live in a reality where while they're doing all the right things, they're still unable attain those things. I am all for personal responsibility and wise choices. But to dismiss external sources as irrelevant to opportunities for success is to simply live in a nice big bubble.

Again, I'm speaking from a purely Canadian point of view and my opinions are based on whats happening in Canada, and the type of people I know who support these movements.

Therein lies the problem. The recent financial crisis largely escaped Canada. You weathered the storm better than most countries, largely due to a less leveraged and more regulated banking sector. You didn't deal with a widespread asset bubble crash. Not yet, anyway, since home prices are highly overvalued in Canada and at record highs.

So you're not in a position to speak to the problems facing people in the US.

Why? Why should life be easy in 2011? Because we have technology? I think thats a very interesting belief.

I think it's more interesting to not associate time with progress, as you seem to be doing. I didn't say life should be easy, did I? If you think working less than three jobs to support yourself means life is a cakewalk, then I don't know what to say.

 

[Ristol]

"I'm not saying they should given to you. You're twisting my words. I am saying, in the US, people live in a reality where while they're doing all the right things, they're still unable to attain those things. I am all for personal responsibility and wise choices. But to dismiss external sources as irrelevant to opportunities for success is to simply live in a nice big bubble."

This.

 

[Flipmo]

My mother travels back and forth from Canada to the US every month. She's been to Detroit and Cleveland recently, she said passing through some areas, it looked like the Balkans after the war. You know something is wrong when the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the world has areas in iconic cities looking like Sarajevo after a 3 year siege.

 

[vg4030]

I dont know how accurate this is...

Also the WSJ has a cool tool to figure out where you fall

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/19/what-percent-are-you/

 

[Pittsey]

I am in the top 10 percent. On one hand that makes me feel good, on the other.... Not so.

 

[Flipmo]

KILL HIMMMM *Points at Pittsey*

 

[Pittsey]

I am a walking contradiction.

 

[vg4030]

Rich Bastard

 

[Pittsey]

Just shows the gap between the 1% and the rest of us. I would say I am not even comfortable, although if I had a 2 family income I would. London is an expensive place to live.

 

[vg4030]

No one told you to live in a gold house with gold toilets

 

[Casey]

There's social issues to consider as well. At least when we're talking about young people. A few people have asked me if I think the almost exclusive preference to digital communication is making young people socially inhibited in real life situations. Like, you never see them actually talking on a phone, it's all texts, IMs and BBM, shit like that.

I know a guy my age who has great A Levels (the exams you take here when you're 17-18 that determine what universities you can go to) and he has a degree, in a scientific field. He got turned down for a job at a freakin' supermarket. And from what I hear this is quite common, graduates even with degrees in "good" fields are struggling to find work.

Obviously I've been fortunate enough to be a successful artist. But even if I hadn't, I wouldn't struggle finding work even without having a degree or even A-Levels (I was expelled at 16 and had a record deal and was on tour within a year). I know that, because I've done freelance media work myself, I regularly guest lecture at universities, I have co-author credits on some books I contributed to, I just co-produced an entire documentary series for one of the biggest radio stations in the UK, and all sorts of things. I think it's a confidence issue with a lot of young people and perhaps they haven't been encouraged to follow their passions and discover what they're good at. If you are very capable at something and have a passion for it you won't struggle to find work regardless of formal education.

That's why I have a big problem with kids who have no idea what they wanna do with their lives and simply go to universities, wasting thousands of pounds on random ass degrees that they don't even have much interest in or want to pursue career wise. I don't understand that at all, it's like they're all just aimlessly drifting along in life, and when you ask them directly what their passions are or what they want to do with their lives they can't give you a straight answer.

Is this a generation that feels an unrealistic sense of entitlement?

 

[S O F I]

I think this generation is taking longer to grow up. We are getting married later and changing jobs/careers more frequently. I think a lot of the youth are disillusioned with their parents' generation and frustrated by their hypocrisy. Apparently in the UK, divorce numbers are extremely high for people who got married in their 20s, so a lot of people are waiting till their 30s to get married and start families. I guess there's a reality TV show about it right now lol.

 

[S O F I]

That's why I have a big problem with kids who have no idea what they wanna do with their lives and simply go to universities, wasting thousands of pounds on random ass degrees that they don't even have much interest in or want to pursue career wise. I don't understand that at all, it's like they're all just aimlessly drifting along in life, and when you ask them directly what their passions are or what they want to do with their lives they can't give you a straight answer.

There's that but also a lot of kids go to college to find their passions. Not everyone is meant to be an artist. Not every engineer knows he/she wants to be an engineer at age 17. This is true in the US, and colleges are often criticized for forcing students to take a wide range of classes even if they're pretty set on one specific course of study. It's to become a more well-rounded person but also to be exposed to different career paths and potential passions. One of my friends was super set on going to the business school and has a very strong business sense. But somewhere along the way of taking his prerequisites for the B school and taking other classes, he became more passionate about human rights and minority rights. Now he's going to grad school and wants to work in the non profit sector.

Anyway, I don't think this generation feels any more entitled than any other previous generation. It's just that with the Internet and the advent of social media, there's a bigger spotlight on it. But you can find writers and influential people complaining about the young generation for every other generation and calling them lazy.

 

[Casey]

There's that but also a lot of kids go to college to find their passions. Not everyone is meant to be an artist. Not every engineer knows he/she wants to be an engineer at age 17. This is true in the US, and colleges are often criticized for forcing students to take a wide range of classes even if they're pretty set on one specific course of study. It's to become a more well-rounded person but also to be exposed to different career paths and potential passions. One of my friends was super set on going to the business school and has a very strong business sense. But somewhere along the way of taking his prerequisites for the B school and taking other classes, he became more passionate about human rights and minority rights. Now he's going to grad school and wants to work in the non profit sector.

Anyway, I don't think this generation feels any more entitled than any other previous generation. It's just that with the Internet and the advent of social media, there's a bigger spotlight on it. But you can find writers and influential people complaining about the young generation for every other generation and calling them lazy.

Yeah, that's true. I guess the problem comes when people go through the whole system and get a degree and still haven't found their passion, essentially making it a giant waste of time. Which unfortunately seems to happen a fair amount.

 

[S O F I]

you just gotta go through trial and error until you find something you enjoy doing.