Bring the Pope to Justice

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#61
I just don't think atheism will ever win the day with people like Dawkins making the case. He's a supercilious jerk. He has suggested that atheists refer to themselves as "brights", which made even Christopher Hitchens scoff.

As a non-believer, I would prefer the case be made forcefully but politely. We have to be happy warriors. I don't like it when atheists make it seem as though there is only one way to view the world. When we do that we're accepting the fundamentalism we reject in religion.

I kind of agree with this.

But I don't feel like there is a war going on, and that we have to challenge religion. I can quite happily live my life and be respectful of others believes and feelings. I didn't visit the Pope, nor did I protest at his visit... I will let people know my opinion on religion, and the Catholic church, but I won't force it down their throat. As this is something I hate the religious doing to me. I hate Jehovah's with a passion when they knock on my door. Yet I still can't permit myself to abuse them. Maybe my mum just brought me up to respect others, no matter their nationality, religion or colour....




I struggle with my mortality, I think that is a downside to atheism. A lot of people I speak with say they aren't sure. But I am 100% sure there is no god.
 

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
#62
I believe that if it gives a terminally ill cancer patient comfort, or parents of a dead child hope. Then it surely has a place in society. If someone chooses to use the bible as a guide for their lives, and lives a kind, caring and giving life surely we can overlook the fact they are believing in fiction?
Dawkins as he has stated is out to "raise consciousness" and move people away from God. He and the other "new atheists" have a positive agenda to challenge the status of religion in society today. This is not about personal beliefs or whether each person should have a private zone to believe or not. It is a public argument to challenge the claims that religion makes and highlight its destructive tendencies. It will be offensive to the religious just as the anti-slavery movement was offensive to slave holders or the women's rights movement was offensive to chauvinists and misogynists.

Dawkins might be as bad as a crazy preacher if it weren't for the fact that unlike a crazy preacher, he's not crazy, he's right! You seem to be saying that everyone's opinion is equal about anything, and so no one has the right, let alone the responsibility to speak out in ways that might offend those who are wrong.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#63
I can understand why Dawkins can come across as pushy to some people. But then again, the things that Dawkins is really vocal about are things that matter. The utter corruption of the Catholic Church, creationists, people like that.

And honestly, those backward fuckjobs deserved to be verbally smacked in the face with all we've got.

I think he does more damage than good. He seems to me, to be in it more for his own ego and self promotion.

I think people should be allowed to believe in Creationism, but that it shouldn't be taught in ANY school.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#64
Dawkins as he has stated is out to "raise consciousness" and move people away from God. He and the other "new atheists" have a positive agenda to challenge the status of religion in society today. This is not about personal beliefs or whether each person should have a private zone to believe or not. It is a public argument to challenge the claims that religion makes and highlight its destructive tendencies. It will be offensive to the religious just as the anti-slavery movement was offensive to slave holders or the women's rights movement was offensive to chauvinists and misogynists.

Dawkins might be as bad as a crazy preacher if it weren't for the fact that unlike a crazy preacher, he's not crazy, he's right! You seem to be saying that everyone's opinion is equal about anything, and so no one has the right, let alone the responsibility to speak out in ways that might offend those who are wrong.


That's not what I am saying. But I can see how my words are interpreted as such. I just consider his actions another form of extremism.

I really can't see how the right to believe in god can be compared to slavery.... I also don't know why it is being spoke of as a war! I understand that religious leaders need to be challenged, and the corruption should be punished. But I can't see this happening. The US for example is in the pocket of Judaism.
 

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
#65
I really can't see how the right to believe in god can be compared to slavery....
This is good. We're narrowing down the problem you have with Dawkins to it's root. Now I understand what part of it you're not getting. The part that Dawkins addresses in his chapter titled: What's So Wrong with Religion? Why Be So Hostile? In it, he talks about the subversion of science. Anyone who values the scientific method will really be upset about that. He talks about religious societies like Afghanistan and it's ilk and the harm of those. Surely, what happens to women there is as bad as slavery. He talks about faith and the sanctity of life. Anti stem cell research or abortions.

He writes about how moderation in faith, those ppl who "use the bible as a guide for their lives, and live a kind, caring and giving life," as you say, fosters fanaticism. "As long as we accept the principle that religious faith must be respected simply because it's religious faith, it's hard to withhold respect from the faith of Osama bin Laden and the suicide bombers. This is the one reason why I do everything in my power to warn ppl against faith itself, not just against so-called 'extremist' faith. The teachings of 'moderate' religion, though not extreme in themselves, are an open invitation to extremism."

Sure, one can bring counter arguments to some of that, as many have, like bin Laden is not like that because of his religion but because of political reasons, but I haven't seen any that are convincing. So I don't know how you don't see even a potential harm in religious belief.

I'm against anything that keeps people ignorant. Good, nice people living good lives based on a fictitious book keeps people ignorant to many things they should know about, and sooner or later will affect their well-being, whether physically or psychologically.
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#66
I'm against anything that keeps people ignorant. Good, nice people living good lives based on a fictitious book keeps people ignorant to many things they should know about, and sooner or later will affect their well-being, whether physically or psychologically.
Or people around them. Or society itself suffers if such people hold important offices.

That's where the bigger problem lies imo. I don't care that much what someone believes in their head as long as it affects only that person, but when their beliefs conflict with worldy affairs I'm ringing the alarm.

Biggest (and worst) example: religious politicians.
 

Sebastian

Well-Known Member
#67
If you're so much more intelligent than me I'd like to compare bank balances.... Prick.
Unless you can provide me with a logical explanation why you having more money than me makes you automatically more intelligent, i cant do nothing but shake my head when im reading such a comment.

I actually never said im more intelligent. However, some of your posts could lead to a specific answer to this question...

The problem with a lot of people on here is that they think they are superior to everyone. That their opinions are the correct opinion.. Fuck OFF!
Well, in most cases there is a right and wrong opinion.

You just seem to have a hard time arguing about a subject by explaining you point of view. Im not sure though how you can blame me or us for your lack of skills in this department.

There is a place for religion in modern society. And there's no need to mock others if believing in god an religion helps them get through the day. But I wouldn't expect a spoilt little fag with a side parting to understand that.
Seems like all the drugs have taken its toll.

I think people should be allowed to believe in Creationism, but that it shouldn't be taught in ANY school.
You should be allowed to believe in anything you want but make sure you are able to deal with the ridicule you will have to face when you still believe in santa claus at the age of 30.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#68
Unless you can provide me with a logical explanation why you having more money than me makes you automatically more intelligent, i cant do nothing but shake my head when im reading such a comment.

I actually never said im more intelligent. However, some of your posts could lead to a specific answer to this question...



Well, in most cases there is a right and wrong opinion.

You just seem to have a hard time arguing about a subject by explaining you point of view. Im not sure though how you can blame me or us for your lack of skills in this department.



Seems like all the drugs have taken its toll.



You should be allowed to believe in anything you want but make sure you are able to deal with the ridicule you will have to face when you still believe in santa claus at the age of 30.

I am not going to react to each point... But I'll start with your last one.

I don't believe in god. I am an atheist. So that bit about Santa at 30.... It's a bit shit.

As for bank balance = intelligence. I am a capitalist. This is what I believe. I also believe I have more qualifications than you. And this is a website about hip-hop music... So if your comment about my posts lacking intelligence has basis... Then I would only say ... Give a shit... lol


I'd also argue against there usually being a right and wrong answer to all questions. There is a scale. And depending on a lot of factors the answer for each individual varies.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#69
This is good. We're narrowing down the problem you have with Dawkins to it's root. Now I understand what part of it you're not getting. The part that Dawkins addresses in his chapter titled: What's So Wrong with Religion? Why Be So Hostile? In it, he talks about the subversion of science. Anyone who values the scientific method will really be upset about that. He talks about religious societies like Afghanistan and it's ilk and the harm of those. Surely, what happens to women there is as bad as slavery. He talks about faith and the sanctity of life. Anti stem cell research or abortions.

He writes about how moderation in faith, those ppl who "use the bible as a guide for their lives, and live a kind, caring and giving life," as you say, fosters fanaticism. "As long as we accept the principle that religious faith must be respected simply because it's religious faith, it's hard to withhold respect from the faith of Osama bin Laden and the suicide bombers. This is the one reason why I do everything in my power to warn ppl against faith itself, not just against so-called 'extremist' faith. The teachings of 'moderate' religion, though not extreme in themselves, are an open invitation to extremism."

Sure, one can bring counter arguments to some of that, as many have, like bin Laden is not like that because of his religion but because of political reasons, but I haven't seen any that are convincing. So I don't know how you don't see even a potential harm in religious belief.

I'm against anything that keeps people ignorant. Good, nice people living good lives based on a fictitious book keeps people ignorant to many things they should know about, and sooner or later will affect their well-being, whether physically or psychologically.

I don't think that anything Dawkins does advances the human race. I also agree with the points about how negative religion is... But it is usually politics disguised as religion. We can all interpret religious scripture any way we wish. And that is the problem. The church and the like interpret it to their own end.

It's funny that I find people here presuming I am defending religion because I am not attacking it. I also find it humorous that people think I believe in god. People that know me in real life would consider me a huge atheist. And that is true. I 100% don't believe in god or religion. My parents had me christened, but my son is not, and never will be. (unless he chooses to)... I just don't agree that we are having a war with religion...


In regards to your comment... " Good, nice people living good lives based on a fictitious book keeps people ignorant to many things they should know about, and sooner or later will affect their well-being, whether physically or psychologically." I think people who believe in god are very ignorant. To such an extent that they will never question the obvious.

I also know several people who have turned their lives on their family because of their faith. This annoys me, and I am vocal about it. Especially when they claim "to speak tongues". That borders on the ridiculous...

I still have the same opinion of Dawkins... Although admit I haven't read any of his books, and I am just going on the speeches I have seen him give.


Edit - I have to be honest. My writing isn't always too cohesive as I am trying to make my points in as few words as possible. I can't be arsed to write essays. I am not Preach.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#71
Nope... Electronics is my core... But I am more computer based these days... I also find a lot of my kit going the IP route. So I am getting more Network based...

You are a Civil Engineer? We are building T2B at Heathrow. When T5 was built one of the guys told me that we had to have the best facilities to keep the best civil guys in the country and on our site, as there was a large shortage of top notch guys... It was like a town of porta cabins... They were also getting paid in excess of $40,000 a month... So there must be demand. I don't have anything to do with it though... I work on the maintenance side.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#72
I am kind of down with this thread... As I woke up in a bad mood today anyway....

I may post again... I enjoyed the intelligent posts... Especially those from Jokerman and Ristol.... Cheers.
 

Sebastian

Well-Known Member
#73
I don't believe in god. I am an atheist. So that bit about Santa at 30.... It's a bit shit.
When i used "you" in the sentence, i didnt mean you specifically. It was aimed at the people who do.

As for bank balance = intelligence. I am a capitalist. This is what I believe. I also believe I have more qualifications than you. And this is a website about hip-hop music... So if your comment about my posts lacking intelligence has basis... Then I would only say ... Give a shit... lol
You believe in capitalism? Lmao. Well you sure sound like one.

I don't think that anything Dawkins does advances the human race.
However you want to define what should be labeled as "advances of the human race", his scientific work, his books etc., are things that helped in this aspect.
 

Bobby Sands

Well-Known Member
#74
Nope... Electronics is my core... But I am more computer based these days... I also find a lot of my kit going the IP route. So I am getting more Network based...

You are a Civil Engineer? We are building T2B at Heathrow. When T5 was built one of the guys told me that we had to have the best facilities to keep the best civil guys in the country and on our site, as there was a large shortage of top notch guys... It was like a town of porta cabins... They were also getting paid in excess of $40,000 a month... So there must be demand. I don't have anything to do with it though... I work on the maintenance side.
no but my degrees are in construction management and health and safety. i reckon id be qualified to be a civil engineering project manager though. i used to work as a civil engineering CAD technician. id love to do that again. i liked the job. not as well paid as a construction manager would but id like it more.
 

Ristol

New York's Ambassador
#79
"Galileo Was Wrong is a detailed and comprehensive treatment of the scientific evidence supporting Geocentrism, the academic belief that the Earth is immobile in the center of the universe. Garnering scientific information from physics, astrophysics, astronomy and other sciences, Galileo Was Wrong shows that the debate between Galileo and the Catholic Church was much more than a difference of opinion about the interpretation of Scripture. Scientific evidence available to us within the last 100 years that was not available during Galileo's confrontation shows that the Church's position on the immobility of the Earth is not only scientifically supportable, but it is the most stable model of the universe and the one which best answers all the evidence we see in the cosmos."

I do believe we're through the looking-glass here, people.
 

_carmi

me, myself & us
#80
I don't really care for the pope and the priests. What bothers me more are all these little sheeps that follow these leaders without questioning them.

I can understand how people believe in God, and whatnot. What I can't understand is how they will ignore major details such as priests molesting children and not do anything against the authority. Even though I'm not religious, I understand how having faith can be a good thing for certain people. But with the Roman Catholic church's outdated and hypocritical authority, it's hard for me to not understand how these followers aren't doing anything really to adapt to the modern world. The issue is not the religion, but the people behind the religion on Earth.
 

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