Why do Muslims move to Western countries only to shun Western culture?

[Rukas]

I was just hoping for some insight as to why this seems to be happening everywhere?

Inspired by this article: Islamist leader Burhan Hanif tells Aussie Muslims to 'shun democracy' | News.com.au

LEADERS of the global Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir have called on Australian Muslims to spurn secular democracy and Western notions of moderate Islam and join the struggle for a transnational Islamic state. British Hizb ut-Tahrir leader Burhan Hanif told participants at a conference in western Sydney yesterday that democracy is "haram" (forbidden) for Muslims, whose political engagement should be be based purely on Islamic law.

My question is, so why move here in the first place then?

 

[Duke]

Because most of them aren't idiots like mr. Hanif.

I'd love some condemnation on this from the moderate Muslim corner, though.

 

[Rukas]

^^ I think that would be good. Its a shame that the moderate Muslim group of people, which I do believe to be the bulk of Muslims, aren't as vocal as this.

This has already sparked protests in Australia. Im just waiting for the riots to start...

 

[Duke]

I'm kinda waiting on the first to come along and say this criticism on this Hanif idiot is an attack on the religion, lol.

 

[Rukas]

^^ Oh please no...

 

[Jokerman]

Well, most of the Muslims who are speaking out like this are, like this one, religious leaders of one kind or another. And they come to the West to influence moderates to see it their way.

 

[Stred]

Because Western Countries have a government that actually function.

Ban The Burka!!

lmao this dude is awesome

 

[masta247]

Not directly on topic but I'd like to comment this:

Burhan Hanif told participants at a conference in western Sydney yesterday that democracy is "haram" (forbidden) for Muslims, whose political engagement should be be based purely on Islamic law.

Most of all it's a great thing that democracy is forbidden for Muslims. Can you picture how ridiculous it would be?
Actually democracy is stupid per se because most people are either stupid or base their decisions on stupid, irrelevant details instead of basically educating themselves to know who are they voting on and what is his plan.
That's why usually the more handsome, articulate, with better PR and more media time wins the presidency.
Now people who voted for Obama found out about his health care reform that was always obvious and now they bitch about it. Come on.
I mean, I'm scared to live in a country where a single PR stunt can get you 10% + votes and a nice face +50% of all votes from women. Then if they don't show you on TV everyday you won't get more than 5% of all votes, even if you have the most reasonable plan.

/ends rant

 

[Pittsey]

Not directly on topic but I'd like to comment this:

Most of all it's a great thing that democracy is forbidden for Muslims. Can you picture how ridiculous it would be?
Actually democracy is stupid per se because most people are either stupid or base their decisions on stupid, irrelevant details instead of basically educating themselves to know who are they voting on and what is his plan.
That's why usually the more handsome, articulate, with better PR and more media time wins the presidency.
Now people who voted for Obama found out about his health care reform that was always obvious and now they bitch about it. Come on.
I mean, I'm scared to live in a country where a single PR stunt can get you 10% + votes and a nice face +50% of all votes from women. Then if they don't show you on TV everyday you won't get more than 5% of all votes, even if you have the most reasonable plan.

/ends rant

Democracy is still the fairest way. And I would rather it than have a guy who inherited control through his bloodline, or the one who killed the most opponents.

 

[masta247]

Democracy is still the fairest way. And I would rather it than have a guy who inherited control through his bloodline, or the one who killed the most opponents.

Sure it's better than dictatorship but there are different alternatives because democracy is very flawed. They could either find a different solution or stop allowing most stupid people to vote.
I can tell from experience that looking back at me 3-4 years ago I wouldn't allow myself to vote.
I'm still not an expert but since then definitely took a lot of time to gather info from numerous sources and feel very bad for voting the way I did back then. Yet most people are much worse and more ignorant than I was back then. And most people decide.
During our last election which was actually yesterday it was all between stupid person A and stupid person B. There were better candidates though that had no more than 3% because they were way less popular. Our media promote hardcore pseudo-socialistic parties - Tv stations are torn between 2 of them and that's why everyone was convinced that it's all about these 2 guys who lead these parties and voting for anyone else is pointless.

 

[Jokerman]

So do you think people should have to take a civic literacy test before they can vote? And maybe a basic literacy test? And let's include math & science, since those issues are important. I know, only the most educated people should be allowed to vote. So that makes about 5% of the population.

 

[Duke]

Allowing only a part of the population to vote would be much worse than what we have now.

 

[masta247]

I don't have an idea for a perfect system yet but I'm just pointing out that the one we have right now is very flawed.

Allowing only those 5% who know what they're doing to vote sounds reasonable and better for the country though. Right now 95% of others have 19 times more power to pick their ruler and 10 bums can outvote 9 professors who spent their lives researching their government.
The biggest problem I see is that most "banned" wouldn't understand that. They would feel like someone is taking away their rights, even if they were too stupid to make good use of them in the first place. I believe that giving people democracy was a mistake in the first place.

 

[masta247]

So do you think people should have to take a civic literacy test before they can vote? And maybe a basic literacy test? And let's include math & science, since those issues are important. I know, only the most educated people should be allowed to vote. So that makes about 5% of the population.

There are also educated people who don't care about politics and vote for whoever they feel more familiar with.
I believe that if they understood only total basics of macroeconomics most people wouldn't vote the way they do and most of all they wouldn't fall for extremely stupid promises.

 

[Duke]

I don't have an idea for a perfect system yet but I'm just pointing out that the one we have right now is very flawed.

Allowing only those 5% who know what they're doing to vote sounds reasonable and better for the country though. Right now 95% of others have 19 times more power to pick their ruler and 10 bums can outvote 9 professors who spent their lives researching their government.
The biggest problem I see is that most "banned" wouldn't understand that. They would feel like someone is taking away their rights, even if they were too stupid to make good use of them in the first place. I believe that giving people democracy was a mistake in the first place.

Then you're just giving the power to a select group. That sets us back a good 300 years.

 

[Sebastian]

I believe that giving people democracy was a mistake in the first place.

What is wrong with you, man?

Nobody will probably say that the way it is now in some countries is litreally perfect but practically, i cant see any better solution.

 

[ArtsyGirl]

It's the best we've got so thats what you gotta do. You can only do what you can do and try and influence others. First step I do is turn off the tv and read only respected newspapers. Most mainstream media have an agenda of who they want in power and it's not for the benefit of the masses.

Anywho to the topic, as has been said this is a minority and it's sad they have the loudest voices right now. I think we have to be careful of discriminating the whole religion as that will only feed into this crap. There are many Muslim Australians who love Australia/democracy just as much as the kid with the Southern Cross tattoo.

 

[masta247]

What is wrong with you, man?

I overreacted a bit. Since yesterday we have a new President. It's not that we have the worst one we could but looking how people voted and looking at statistics of who voted for whom it annoyed me. I'm not the type of person who would support a specific party and say that they are all great and fine but there was a specific candidate with really great ideas. He got like 3% of all votes and didn't even move to round 2. The thing is that vast majority of people I know who are into politics voted for him.
Then in round 2 it's all about 2 candidates that got the most votes in round 1. One of them was a total idiot. That guy lost by mere 2%. That's really scary.

 

[Rukas]

Because Western Countries have a government that actually function.

Ban The Burka!!

lmao this dude is awesome

I think this one is more fitting to the thread...

 

[Tha_Wood]

its not just Muslims who bitch about stuff here, there are a lot of ethnics that go on about how great (insert war torn shithole) is and how Australia sucks and we are a bunch of Aussie dogs. i wish they would fuck off to there "homeland" (even though they and there parents were born here)