So..... Muhammad was a pedofile

[Rukas]

I assume by puberty you do not mean begin puberty but really when the girl has fully matured physically? Because no girl reaches puberty at 9. It might begin at 9, but a girl doesn't fully mature until at least 14-16.

And what do you make of psychological maturity? It's not because a girl is physically mature that she is psychologically mature.

Pish posh, who needs your facts and studies when we have scripture to say it is ok?! </sarcasm>

 

[Jurhum]

I could go on and on about "why not" but you dont seem the type to follow logic, medical, or scientific evidence so I will spare this thread that discussion.

So you would let Muhammad, or any other man, sleep with your 9 year old child then? I feel sorry for your children. No girl becomes a women at 9 years old. No girl. Desert or no desert.

Jurhum, if you said this stuff to me in real life, I would probably knock your jaw through the back of your head. Furthermore, Id gladly remove the testicles of ANY pedophile I came in contact with, religious leader or common man. Now, if this happened.... What would that make me in your opinion? Racist?

If it was the Prophet himself, I would not have a problem at all. As for any other man, that's a different story.

As for you breaking my jaw, it's ok. You are a tough guy.

 

[Jurhum]

I assume by puberty you do not mean begin puberty but really when the girl has fully matured physically? Because no girl reaches puberty at 9. It might begin at 9, but a girl doesn't fully mature until at least 14-16.

And what do you make of psychological maturity? It's not because a girl is physically mature that she is psychologically mature.

As I said, as long as the parents and girl think she's ready for marriage. why not.

 

[Rukas]

If it was the Prophet himself, I would not have a problem at all. As for any other man, that's a different story.

So Muhammad can do whatever he wants and get away with it?

 

[Jurhum]

So Muhammad can do whatever he wants and get away with it?

Of course.

 

[Rukas]

Jurhum, you are a moraless, barbaric human being. You belong in the year 600 not 2010, certainly not around sane peaceful people opposed to murder, certainly not around free thinking people, and certainly not around children.

Congratulations, you are the reason that good people of Muslim faith such as ImmortalTech get a bad wrap. You label people opposed to your barbaric opinions as intolerant, yet you are the one who is intolerant of moral progress, education and free thought.

Throughout these two threads you have supported, condoned and encouraged statutory rape, pedophilia, murder, genocide, oppression and terrorism, fear instead of respect, and brainwashing instead of faith and knowledge.

You and people like you, of ANY Religion or race, are what is wrong with this world.

 

[Cooper]

As I said, as long as the parents and girl think she's ready for marriage. why not.

Why not? Don't be fucking stupid. Whether a nine year old girl thinks she's ready for marriage or not is irrelevant, she's nowhere near mature enough to make that decision.

 

[Cooper]

In general you're right about how it needs to come from both sides, but one side can also push it. There's simply "having respect" and then there's having to go change legislation, procedures etc etc all for the sake of one specific community. That's the double standard that pisses a lot of westerners off. Like the example Rukas used earlier in one of these two threads. A cyclist had to take off his helmet and glasses but a women in a "thingy" could go right in. Now, would I really give a shit in real life? No, it does not affect me. But it's still a "wait, what?" moment.

Some guy in Britain used a similar argument when told he had to remove his hood. He told them his religion was Jedi.


Jedi believer wins apology from Jobcentre after being kicked out for wearing a hood | Mail Online

 

[Casey]

Jurhum, you are a moraless, barbaric human being. You belong in the year 600 not 2010, certainly not around sane peaceful people opposed to murder, certainly not around free thinking people, and certainly not around children.

Congratulations, you are the reason that good people of Muslim faith such as ImmortalTech get a bad wrap. You label people opposed to your barbaric opinions as intolerant, yet you are the one who is intolerant of moral progress, education and free thought.

Throughout these two threads you have supported, condoned and encouraged statutory rape, pedophilia, murder, genocide, oppression and terrorism, fear instead of respect, and brainwashing instead of faith and knowledge.

You and people like you, of ANY Religion or race, are what is wrong with this world.

Post of the fucking year.

 

[Jurhum]

Jurhum, you are a moraless, barbaric human being. You belong in the year 600 not 2010, certainly not around sane peaceful people opposed to murder, certainly not around free thinking people, and certainly not around children.

Congratulations, you are the reason that good people of Muslim faith such as ImmortalTech get a bad wrap. You label people opposed to your barbaric opinions as intolerant, yet you are the one who is intolerant of moral progress, education and free thought.

Throughout these two threads you have supported, condoned and encouraged statutory rape, pedophilia, murder, genocide, oppression and terrorism, fear instead of respect, and brainwashing instead of faith and knowledge.

You and people like you, of ANY Religion or race, are what is wrong with this world.

You didnt know? I'm married to a 9 year old.

 

[Rukas]

You didnt know? I'm married to a 9 year old.

Are you saying you are the Prophet Muhammad? Isn't that like haram? Shouldnt you kill yourself now?

 

[Jurhum]

Are you saying you are the Prophet Muhammad? Isn't that like haram? Shouldnt you kill yourself now?

I am on my way. Don't worry.

 

[Rukas]

I dont condone suicide or murder.... Im not you

 

[Jurhum]

I dont condone suicide or murder.... Im not you

It's ok. Take one for the team this time and condone it.

 

[ill-matic]

Ehh you're taking the opposite extreme which is as far from truth as saying that muslims are blowing everything around them. Some probably do while some are not. Because a God loving peaceful man would like to kill others for "offending their God", right?
And I'm not talking about cartoons (If I had to I don't watch south park but since they shit on anyone and everything I also don't know why Muhammad should be any different - it was a cheap joke).
Like Duke and Carmi already mentioned numerous times - I'm just against special treatment for them. Respect is respect. I don't think that they deserve more respect than others just because it's easier to enrage them. They are already taking advantage of their possibilities and are trying to force their laws. There's a special treatment for them.
And I'm not talking about head scarfs wtf? I'm talking about this:

In some cases it's just not okay to wear this. And it's very troublesome at times. At times you can't tell them that they have to take it off because "you're a racist".
It's okay if they're getting their respect as much as anyone else but point is that it's not enough for them.
It's getting harder and harder not to insult them because everyone is protecting them from a direct confrontation with the rest of the non-muslim world.

I'm usually the one defending religious people. I feel like everyone can have their beliefs whatever they are. That is unless you force any of them on others. You have to adjust to the society, religion should not negatively affect others around you. I believe it should remain in the spiritual part of yourself and that's it. Forcing any religious whereabouts outside is silly and illogical (imo) but most of all in many cases it just does nothing good to others. It just causes trouble. It's even worse with religion-based laws. That is wrong. It's hard to picture something more terrifying than an illogical law in a civilized country.
If I believed in a magic fairy I wouldn't call all tv stations showing cartoons that they insult my beliefs. I should either turn the tv off or chill and adjust. Not everyone will respect my belief. Since Islam is way more popular the only difference is that more people are aware of their whereabouts. Still it's unbelievably silly that others have to adjust to them instead.
There's a line between what is okay and what is not okay.

In my culture a man offending or hurting a woman would get hurt. I could kick someone's ass because he offended a woman and I wouldn't get charged.
Muslims tend to offend their women if they don't obey them. There's violence included. Can I go abroad and insult (not even punch) all muslims who punch their wifes and then say that it's a part of my culture? And it's more logical and probably better for the society. If not then why? Would a muslim sue me instead?

be realistic here - granted the riots, threats etc that occurred following the cartoon were entirely out of proportion - to use this as an indication of the islamic population as a whole is very, very misguided. not only that, but you show your complete ignorance of islam when you say that generally, musims "beat their wives". there are cases of this, and there are also cases of this occuring in christianity, but it's more talked about in islam because islam is "different" from the norm in western culture.

and you're taking this too far anyway.. all i said was that in matters such as these, you have to be respectful. all the points you mentioned regarding the full islamic dress etc are of course debateable, and i don't contest the merits of your point of view (im agreeable 50/50), but the issue i am talking about solely reolves around the cartoon issue, which is based on the principle of respect. it was unnecessary, it was pointless, and it only served to piss a lot of people off. YES, there ARE extremists, but to rub their noses in it and then say "look! these people are so primitive" after they react aggressively, all at the expense of the feelings of the peaceful majority (because they will feel hurt by this too, but wont do anything about it), is just misguided and stupid. this isn't about bending over backwards to appease them, and doesnt inconvenience us in anyway by NOT publishing that kind of shit. no one loses here but those who are made fun of. a

 

[Jokerman]

Jurhum, you are a moraless, barbaric human being. .

Well, he does have morals. He just gets them mostly from the Quran and his culture's traditions, which, of course, you don't. No doubt you are an agent of the Mossad.

 

[masta247]

be realistic here - granted the riots, threats etc that occurred following the cartoon were entirely out of proportion - to use this as an indication of the islamic population as a whole is very, very misguided. not only that, but you show your complete ignorance of islam when you say that generally, musims "beat their wives

.

Nah I even used statistics to back this up in the other thread. It's not ignorance. It's perfectly okay to beat wives in Islam.

there are cases of this, and there are also cases of this occuring in christianity, but it's more talked about in islam because islam is "different" from the norm in western culture.

No, because Christianity forbids it while Islam allows it. You can beat your wife whenever she disagrees with you or doesn't do what you want.

Wife Beating In Islam

Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great! Rodwell[1]
Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme. Dawood[2]

Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great. Pickthall[3]

Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great. Arberry[4]

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. Shakir[5]

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whom part you fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance) for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all). Ali[6]

 

[Tha_Wood]

i see many flawed arguments made by the opposing sides. im to tired right now to go through it so i will tomorrow.

 

[Tha_Wood]

on a side note i believe everyone is entitled to there own beliefs, be that religion, moral codes or what ever. i drink and smoke, alot, i dont think its wrong for people not drink and smoke just like i dont think its right for people to drink and smoke, it just is what it is. i dont believe in any religions but i dont think its wrong for people to believe in them, i do however think its wrong for people to force their ideals on other people. what ever you believe in thats fine, and if it works for you even better, but dont expect other people to feel the same.

 

[ill-matic]

.

Nah I even used statistics to back this up in the other thread. It's not ignorance. It's perfectly okay to beat wives in Islam.



No, because Christianity forbids it while Islam allows it. You can beat your wife whenever she disagrees with you or doesn't do what you want.

Wife Beating In Islam

As opposed to the "light" beating of a child when they are disobedient which is considered normal in western so society? Ever got a bit of a hit on your ass as a kid? Or a slap in the face? Or had your ear pulled? All for being disobedient?s. But who points to that as an example of western societies barbaric nature? Isn't it even worse considering it's the "light" beating of an innocent, helpless child? Not saying I agree with the practice but that's how I read the term "beating".. I guess that comes down to interpretation but I think you read that as some sort of severe beating

I'm just putting that out there for discussions sake and for you to put things in perspective. You can take the moral high ground in the case of women, based on what you've quoted, but I bet the issue about disciplining a child in the same manner didn't even come into your mind. Are they mutually exclusive?