So..... Muhammad was a pedofile

[Rukas]

ImmortalTech, can you please provide a source for Aisha having begun her menstrual cycle at 9? Im not denying you, I think it makes little difference, but I missed that during my research.

Thanks.

Also, I never said "friends hottest daughter." That would be stupid, we have no idea how she looked, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I simply said that he didnt like the other friends daughter, and said it would be wrong to marry that one because it is his friends daughter, but this one must have caught his eye because he did just that.

But that quote makes it seem like Im running around saying "Muhammad married a young hottie fap fap fap" which I certainly am not. For starters Im trying to be as objective and fact driven as I can be, and secondly, I do not believe that ANY girl can be hot at the age of 6 so I would never have called her that.

Thank you for not calling me a moron though and actually discussing this instead of attacking it.

 

[ImmortalTech]

^I'll see if I can find a good source for u.. right now, its 2am.. and I gotta be up for 6 :|

Also... I'm not the type to attack shit (especially over an internet forum) it wouldn't make sense. Especially cuz communication in text is very limited so there's only so much u get out of reading someones comments and its very easy to misinterpret things. I'd rather spend my time discussing things so we can all educate each other, and over time build a better understanding of each other and higher tolerance towards each others beliefs.

peace

 

[Rukas]

^^ Dude go to sleep This thread and the world will be here tomorrow. Unless my head gets caved in first Or Israel/Iran starts WW3 .

 

[Cooper]

First of all, Aisha' was 6 at the time of marriage and she was 9 when her marriage was consummated. Its pretty clear in Islamic literature. I dont understand why anyone would try and deny that.

Age is a subjective matter and through different times and different cultures different ages have been considered as adults. In Islam, puberty is the stage that boy and girls become men and women and become fully responsible for their actions. With that in mind, Aisha had began her menstrual cycle, and her marriage was consummated after the fact. Yes I know that 11-12 is the average age for girls to hit that stage in life, but that being an average it obviously means some get there earlier than that and some after. If Aisha had start menstruating she cannot be considered a prepubescent child.

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:
Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me.

The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.

5 chars

 

[Kadafi Son]

smh

this shit is heated

 

[Flipmo]

I don't like to close a good thread, and insulting doesn't bother me cause I do it when I argue, lol, but
this is a good discussion, and I'd like to see it keep going.
Just don't start throwing out insults at each other, the same goes for Masta, and calling Muhammad a fag. (I know you're not like this usually)

Lets try and keep it tasteful in here for the sake of argumentation.

 

[masta247]

Just don't start throwing out insults at each other, the same goes for Masta, and calling Muhammad a fag. (I know you're not like this usually)

Lol this wasn't serious at all. I didn't know this thread would turn out to be serious.
Sorry if it insulted anyone but I'm used to God jokes despite usually defending religious people from atheists just for the sake of it if there's "religion sucks" discussion. I might be somewhat biased against Muslims though and that's why there was no serious reply from me - I think they shouldn't take everything death seriously lol.
It's silly that it's already quite popular to laugh at Jesus while you have to be very careful not to insult Muhammad. I believe that if these people weren't as serious about their religion and its superiority to everything and that you absolutely insult it with anything you do there wouldn't be so many problems with them.
It feels like they want the world to be scared of them.

 

[S O F I]

^You can't take one religion's ways and apply it across all other religions.

If you make fun of your own mother, it doesn't mean I should be OK with making fun of my own mother. Of course, my mother isn't the flying spaghetti monster, as Casey would say, but the point stands. People feel things a different way. You can't expect people to feel the same way you do about certain things. That is precisely the anger in the Muslim world, that the Western ideals are protruded as Universal, when in fact, they are not.

My issue with Mohammad cartoons and portrayals at times is that, while done in defense of freedom of speech, you can't help but notice that there is no inherent benefit except ridicule. But then, you can't tell a Muslim, "Lighten up, chap, I don't care if they make fun of Jesus and I love Jesus" because he sees Mohammad differently and plus it explicitly says that portraying Mohammad is haraam.

People often say that the Arab world, but also the Asian world, has a lot of misconceptions about the West, but looking at Masta's post and the "they want us to be afraid of them" remarks, I can't help but think it's quite the opposite.

 

[Casey]

and plus it explicitly says that portraying Mohammad is haraam.

But this works both ways. Sure, it might be haraam to them. But it sure as fuck ain't haraam to me.

*draws picture of Muhammad"
*gets bored*
*rips up drawing, throws it in bin*

As the famous quote says:

"What I eat don't make you shit"

In other words, the things I do shouldn't make a fucking difference to you. I'm not one of you. I'm an atheist, I hate all religions.

But I actually see masta's point when he said "They want us to be afraid of them".

I'm probably not going to get death threats if I publically state "Fuck Jesus", or "Fuck Buddha", etc.

But realistically I have to acknowledge that if I go out and say "Fuck Muhammad", there's some crazy ass motherfuckers out there that would wanna slice my head off just for saying that. And that's just a total overreaction on their part.

No other religions take it that far. Scientology harasses and bullies people. I've made some Sikhs angry in the past when I said "Fuck that coward-ass Bhindranwale the terrorist", because some of the militant Sikhs consider that fool a saint. But nobody else goes to that uber-sensitive "Jihad" level.

I mean, look at the South Park thing. And the Danish cartoon thing. They're fucking cartoons. Is it really THAT disrespectful that they have to go chickenshit crazy over it? Sure, the West might not have a proper understanding of Islam - but acting like that sure ain't gonna make things any better.

 

[masta247]

@Sofi Yes I know this and I find it stupid.

Back in the days you would also get your head chopped for making fun of Jesus but we're past that time. Why would I have to feel threatened for "insulting" Muhammad? Especially since there are many things that insult Muslims that are perfectly normal to most other people. Since we don't live in a country where Islam is the "official religion" where you can get stoned for bullshit we can be civilized and should punish things that are not okay to us.
I agree that my first remark could be considered as an insult but then drawing him is not an insult by any means. And "they" find it insulting while authors of that drawing feel threatened. And they live in a free country!
I wouldn't have any negative feelings if they kept stoning themselves and murdering for bullshit in their own country where it's allowed but keep civilized if you're on the outside and behave or gtfo.
Drawing Muhammad or making fun of a mythical figure is not agains the law nor most peoples' moral code (at least amongst those who weren't raised amongst muslims). Threatening and killing is.

If there was a religion forbidding looking at their believers and they would kill for looking would it also be okay? Yes, I believe they would also make people feel threatened.

I find it extremely stupid because if I went to their country I guess I would have to be okay with it and watch my every step granted I'd like to keep my head.

 

[Duke]

^You can't take one religion's ways and apply it across all other religions.

If you make fun of your own mother, it doesn't mean I should be OK with making fun of my own mother. Of course, my mother isn't the flying spaghetti monster, as Casey would say, but the point stands. People feel things a different way. You can't expect people to feel the same way you do about certain things. That is precisely the anger in the Muslim world, that the Western ideals are protruded as Universal, when in fact, they are not.

My issue with Mohammad cartoons and portrayals at times is that, while done in defense of freedom of speech, you can't help but notice that there is no inherent benefit except ridicule. But then, you can't tell a Muslim, "Lighten up, chap, I don't care if they make fun of Jesus and I love Jesus" because he sees Mohammad differently and plus it explicitly says that portraying Mohammad is haraam.

People often say that the Arab world, but also the Asian world, has a lot of misconceptions about the West, but looking at Masta's post and the "they want us to be afraid of them" remarks, I can't help but think it's quite the opposite.

On the other hand, one cannot expect the West to suddenly give Islam a wide berth and think twice about everything to make sure we don't piss the muslims off.

And yes, I do believe most Western core values (equality, democracy, freedom of speech) are superior to some other cultures where these values are not or less appreciated. No one should expect us westerners to just cave in and treat Islam with silk gloves.

I can understand that a devout muslim would be really offended by the prophet being depicted in a political cartoon, but we westerners ridicule eveything in those cartoons. Should we apply a double standard just to spare the muslims?


And on a related note, the muslim world is hypocritcal as fuck when it comes to "offensive behaviour". I mean seriously. Somewhere in Denmark a cartoon is printed and what is the response? Worldwide protests, riots, clamouring for death of the authors, bounties on heads and last but not least, some Islamic cartoonists took it upon themselves to retaliate. Most of them ridiculing the Jews and the Holocaust, which apart from having fuck all to do with it, is imo just as offensive if not more offensive than drawing Muhammad.

So what, "we" can't even lift a finger and when we as much as look dirty in their direction, we have to undergo a flood of hatemail? Muslim women want to be able to wear a 2-person camping tent in the west and when they are denied they are yelling "opression". But if a western woman got off the plane in Teheran wearing a bikini she's disrespecting the culture, asking to get raped and prolly end up stoned. Real fresh there.

It's a double standard if there ever was one and I'm not going to stand for it. In the adult world it's give and take, and I'd really like the muslim community to look up the word "compromise" in the dictionary.

 

[masta247]

Most of them ridiculing the Jews and the Holocaust, which apart from having fuck all to do with it, is imo just as offensive if not more offensive than drawing Muhammad.

Yeah and millions of people actually really died there while Muhammad is just a single figure (mythical or not).

 

[Duke]

I understand that these days some shit like that is being said for political reasons. But honestly, in my humble opinion, any one that argues that the Holocaust didn't happen or that only a few people died should just be shot into space. So much stupidity I cannot comprehend.

If I were a muslim I'd dislike Israel too. Hell, I'm not a muslim and I STILL dislike Israel. But denying the holocaust is an incredible display of stupidity.

 

[lyrical start]

No dumbass. Imagine what happen if you want to an black African country wearing a kkk costume yelling ******s or if you went to Israel with a Nazi uniform yelling hail hitler.

Some of the comments you idiots made will get you hurt.

The Quran is in Arabic and any translation made is not accurate.

 

[vg4030]

The Quran is in Arabic and any translation made is not accurate.

That may be so, but 9 years old, is 9 years old in any religion/translation. Thats whats being discussed here

 

[lyrical start]

I just asked a Quran scholar about this issue and he told me she was 11 when she married him. He also said in those times young girls were mature and concsious enough to know what they were doing. Also 11 yr old girls at that time had bodies of 16/17 yr olds.

They lived in the desert back then and this made them look more mature.

 

[Duke]

No dumbass. Imagine what happen if you want to an black African country wearing a kkk costume yelling ******s or if you went to Israel with a Nazi uniform yelling hail hitler.

Some of the comments you idiots made will get you hurt.

The Quran is in Arabic and any translation made is not accurate.

Comments like what? Go on, tell me. Where have I outright insulted your religion that was in no way related to this debate?


Butthurt.

And if you think criticizing Muhammad, be it in a cartoon or with words, is analogous to screaming Heil Hitler in Israel or travel tot Zimbabwe in a KKK costume, you just expertly consolidated the butthurt stereotype that muslims suffer from.

 

[Duke]

I just asked a Quran scholar about this issue and he told me she was 11 when she married him. He also said in those times young girls were mature and concsious enough to know what they were doing. Also 11 yr old girls at that time had bodies of 16/17 yr olds.

They lived in the desert back then and this made them look more mature.

I just....can't even tell if this post is supposed to be a joke or not.

11 year old girls were mature and conscious enough back then?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Bodies of 16/17 year olds?


Really, man?

You believe anything you're told?

 

[Flipmo]

No dumbass. Imagine what happen if you want to an black African country wearing a kkk costume yelling ******s or if you went to Israel with a Nazi uniform yelling hail hitler.

Some of the comments you idiots made will get you hurt.

The Quran is in Arabic and any translation made is not accurate.

Once again, no insulting please. I understand you may get fumed, but lets keep it civilized.

It goes for everyone.

 

[lyrical start]

Duke try calling him a pedophile in the middle east and see what happens to you.

Duke you really are an idiot. Humans don't remain the same for thousands of year.