Sarkozy to submit bill banning Islamic face veils

SiGh

Who's there?
Staff member
#1
Sarkozy to submit bill banning Islamic face veils

By SYLVIE CORBET (AP) – 6 hours ago

PARIS — French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Wednesday ordered legislation that would ban women from wearing Islamic veils that hide the face in the street and other public places.

In seeking to forbid the garment from public view, Sarkozy defied the advice of experts sought by the government who warned that such a broad ban risked contravening France's constitution.

Such a measure would put France on the same track as Belgium, which is also moving toward a complete ban in a similar reaction as Islamic culture has come in conflict with native European values. Sarkozy has repeatedly said that such clothing oppresses women and is "not welcome" in France.

Government spokesman Luc Chatel said after Wednesday's weekly Cabinet meeting that the president decided the government should submit a bill to parliament in May on an overall ban on burqa-like veils.

"The ban on veils covering the whole face should be general, in every public space, because the dignity of women cannot be put in doubt," Chatel said.

The decision to seek a full ban, rather than a limited ban, came as a surprise. After a Cabinet meeting just a week ago, the government spokesman announced a decision for legislation that bans the veil but takes into account conclusions on the matter by the Council of State, France's highest administrative office.

The government had sought the council's opinion to ensure a law would pass constitutional muster. The Council of State advised that a full ban would be "legally very fragile." A six-month parliamentary inquiry also concluded that a full ban would raise constitutional issues, as well as enforcement problems.

"It's a transgression, an aggression even, on the level of personal liberty," said Abdellatif Lemsibak, a member of the National Federation of Muslims of France. "The Muslims have the right to an orthodox expression of their religion ... it shocks me."

France is a firmly secular country but has western Europe's largest Muslim population, estimated at some 5 million. France worries about clashes in values as well as about a spread of radical Islam. Authorities widely see the veil in light of gender equality and security issues.

In neighboring Belgium, a similar initiative for a ban on full veils in public places, including in the streets, is expected to become law in July.

Muslim leaders in France say that the face-covering veil is not a religious requirement of Islam but have cautioned against banning the garment.

The government spokesman said the French president considered that burqa-style veils that hide the face, such as niqabs, "do not pose a problem in a religious sense, but threaten the dignity of women."

The government "is ready to take legal risks because the stakes are worth it," said Prime Minister Francois Fillon.

France outlawed Muslim headscarves and other "ostentatious" religious symbols from classrooms in 2004 after a marathon parliamentary debate and, "we are acting in the same way today. We have decided to legislate," Chatel said.

Numerous school girls wore headscarves in class, but only a tiny minority of women wear the all-covering veil. Nevertheless, debate on the question of whether a law is needed and how far it should reach has continued for nearly a year.

Muslim leaders say that the debate itself has stigmatized Muslims, as has a national debate on the French identity.

Even within Sarkozy's own conservative UMP party, the question of forbidding face-covering veils in streets is divisive.

One of the party's leading lawmakers, Jean-Francois Cope, had already filed his own preliminary bill for a global ban on the garments — which should be superseded by the government's. Cope called Sarkozy's decision "wise" and said the government needs to move rapidly "so the French know that, on this point, we are truly determined."

Cope, speaking to reporters, suggested the law should be passed by the end of July — but followed by a six-month consultation period before it is applied.

Sarkozy insisted that "everything should be done so that no one feels stigmatized," Chatel said without elaborating.

The French parliament is already slated to discuss a nonbinding resolution on May 11 that sets out political principles, including the need for women to keep their faces uncovered.
Thoughts? Discuss?
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#2
Thoughts? Discuss?
All I have for this is one verse from the Qura'an.

Neither the Jews, nor the Christians, will accept you, unless you follow their religion. Say, "GOD's guidance is the true guidance." If you acquiesce to their wishes, despite the knowledge you have received, you will find no ally or supporter to help you against GOD.
That is true. They will never accept Islam until Muslims follow the capitalistic/deviated ideologies these western governments follow.
 

yak pac fatal

Well-Known Member
#3
^its the same thing in muslim countries. muslim that leave islam get murked if they dont get outta there.

and on the topic, if the women wanna wear then wear it.
 

S O F I

Administrator
Staff member
#4
All I have for this is one verse from the Qura'an.



That is true. They will never accept Islam until Muslims follow the capitalistic/deviated ideologies these western governments follow.
Muslims have more rights in Western countries than they do in Islamic countries.
 

Flipmo

VIP Member
Staff member
#5
The veil doesn't really bother me, it should be a choice ... the Burqa or Nikab on the other hand I'm not too fond of.

Either way, hijab girls give the best hand jobs. (I know this is off topic, but I thought I should throw that out there :) )
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#6
At the end of the day, if you want to abide by the extreme, fundamentalist parts of your religion, go live in a country governed by that religion.

Like, if I decided that I wanted to be a proper Rasta, grow full on Dreads and smoke nuff ganja every day, OBVIOUSLY I'd go and live in Jamaica.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#7
I agree with Casey and Sofi. It's freaking annoying to see muslims having all right in the west.
There are special procedures how to treat them so you won't hurt their feelings! And then they get all pissed starting a jihad and suing the shit out of you when they see a cross at their workplace.

I'm against special treatment for any religions. Respect is respect but that shit is just too much.
If you're a muslim woman in the west then go back to your country getting beat up by your husband and stuff. If you didn't like it and want to live in the west instead then adjust yourself.
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#9
I don't support the idea of banning it outright, but obviously it doesn't help integration.

I do agree it shouldn't be worn by people in a public function.


That is true. They will never accept Islam until Muslims follow the capitalistic/deviated ideologies these western governments follow.
Oh please, adhering to our own (western) morals and values of women's rights and normal decency (as in, not walking around covered in a black sheet) in OUR OWN COUNTRIES, is "capitalistic" ideology?

gtfo

The "West" will certainly not accept you Muslims as long as you keep living in the 10th century. Most Jews and Christians in the West figured it out and stopped being full blown idiots a while ago (now they're just idiots).
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#12
The veil doesn't really bother me, it should be a choice ... the Burqa or Nikab on the other hand I'm not too fond of.

Either way, hijab girls give the best hand jobs. (I know this is off topic, but I thought I should throw that out there :) )
It's not what you are fond of or not fond of. If a muslim woman wants to wear full hijab then she should have the right to.

But Islamphobia is widely accepted in the west so it makes it ok to take away more rights from Muslims. Soon, we should set up some gas chambers and burn them up cuz they pray 5 times a day.
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#13
At the end of the day, if you want to abide by the extreme, fundamentalist parts of your religion, go live in a country governed by that religion.

Like, if I decided that I wanted to be a proper Rasta, grow full on Dreads and smoke nuff ganja every day, OBVIOUSLY I'd go and live in Jamaica.
You are correct.
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#14
I agree with Casey and Sofi. It's freaking annoying to see muslims having all right in the west.
There are special procedures how to treat them so you won't hurt their feelings! And then they get all pissed starting a jihad and suing the shit out of you when they see a cross at their workplace.

I'm against special treatment for any religions. Respect is respect but that shit is just too much.
If you're a muslim woman in the west then go back to your country getting beat up by your husband and stuff. If you didn't like it and want to live in the west instead then adjust yourself.
beat up by your husband? looooooooool

let see.. do u want me to bring up statistics for domestic violence in the western countries?
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#15
I don't support the idea of banning it outright, but obviously it doesn't help integration.

I do agree it shouldn't be worn by people in a public function.



Oh please, adhering to our own (western) morals and values of women's rights and normal decency (as in, not walking around covered in a black sheet) in OUR OWN COUNTRIES, is "capitalistic" ideology?

gtfo

The "West" will certainly not accept you Muslims as long as you keep living in the 10th century. Most Jews and Christians in the West figured it out and stopped being full blown idiots a while ago (now they're just idiots).
So, you mean western born muslims shouldnt be accepted either?
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#16
let see.. do u want me to bring up statistics for domestic violence in the western countries?
Yes! And compare them to Muslim countries.

I remember reading that 3/4 of muslim men beat their wives daily because of some stupid reasons (for example if she doesn't want to take in the ass but I guess this would be one of these bigger reasons).
 

Sebastian

Well-Known Member
#17
"Im not talking about voluntary wearing a veil. Women should be able to wear whatever they want as far as im concerned....but what does voluntary mean, in a community, where when a girl gets raped, her fathers first impulse, rather often, is to murder her out of shame?!"
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#18
Yes! And compare them to Muslim countries.

I remember reading that 3/4 of muslim men beat their wives daily because of some stupid reasons (for example if she doesn't want to take in the ass but I guess this would be one of these bigger reasons).
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, between 1998 and 2002:

Of the almost 3.5 million violent crimes committed against family members, 49% of these were crimes against spouses.
84% of spouse abuse victims were females, and 86% of victims of dating partner abuse at were female.
Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of dating partner murderers
50% of offenders in state prison for spousal abuse had killed their victims. Wives were more likely than husbands to be killed by their spouses: wives were about half of all spouses in the population in 2002, but 81% of all persons killed by their spouse.
First of all. Anal sex is against the teachings of Islam.

Second, we are not talking about the problems of communities. I can bring the same equal misfortunes in the west. From coke to weed to aids to gang murders to thieve's etc etc etc.

girls gettin raped by their daddys. girls getting beat up in domestic violence. the world is not a utopia.

the question at hand, does sarkozy have the right to take away the right of Muslim women from wearing niqab or hijab?
 

Flipmo

VIP Member
Staff member
#19
It's not what you are fond of or not fond of. If a muslim woman wants to wear full hijab then she should have the right to.

But Islamphobia is widely accepted in the west so it makes it ok to take away more rights from Muslims. Soon, we should set up some gas chambers and burn them up cuz they pray 5 times a day.
I personally am not fond of the Burqa and Nikab because I generally like seeing who I'm talking to, especially a lady (ouh yeaaah), that doesn't mean I condemn it, or that it should be banned. If it's her choice to wear it fine, but lets say it has to do with external factors (say the husband or father for instance forcing it upon her) then I disapprove.
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#20
I personally am not fond of the Burqa and Nikab because I generally like seeing who I'm talking to, especially a lady (ouh yeaaah), that doesn't mean I condemn it, or that it should be banned. If it's her choice to wear it fine, but lets say it has to do with external factors (say the husband or father for instance forcing it upon her) then I disapprove.
How do you know anyone is forcing her? Anyway, why would gov't make legislations to ban such things? After all, these countries claim to be the most civilised countries in the world.
 

Latest posts

Donate

Any donations will be used to help pay for the site costs, and anything donated above will be donated to C-Dub's son on behalf of this community.

Members online

No members online now.
Top