Your conclusion on God's existence
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"Evolution has never been observed."
We've seen bugs become resistant to pesticides, we've seen virus's change. Its been observed
"Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics."
Creationists misinterpret the second law, its a misunderstanding of both evolution and thermodynamics
"There are no transitional fossils."
Yes there are. Creationists changed the meaning of transitional fossils from "fossils that show characteristics from lineage A and lineage b and possibly some inbetween" to "frog with wolf paws".
"The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance."
Chance plays a big role in evolution, but creationists completely ignore the fact that natural selection is the complete opposite of chance. Chance comes from mutations, then natural selection takes it from there. Evolution doesn't answer how life started, even if scientists are wrong about it it wouldn't affect the theory of evolution.
"Evolution is only a theory; it hasn't been proved."
Evolution is indeed a "theory", a theory, in the scientific sense, is "a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena", it doesn't say its lacks certainty. What evolution has is what any good scientific claim has--evidence, and lots of it. Evolution is supported by a wide range of observations throughout the fields of genetics, anatomy, ecology, animal behavior, paleontology, and others. If you want to challenge the theory of evolution, you must address that evidence. You must show that the evidence is either wrong or irrelevant or that it fits another theory better. Of course, to do this, you must know both the theory and the evidence.
We've seen bugs become resistant to pesticides, we've seen virus's change. Its been observed
"Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics."
Creationists misinterpret the second law, its a misunderstanding of both evolution and thermodynamics
"There are no transitional fossils."
Yes there are. Creationists changed the meaning of transitional fossils from "fossils that show characteristics from lineage A and lineage b and possibly some inbetween" to "frog with wolf paws".
"The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance."
Chance plays a big role in evolution, but creationists completely ignore the fact that natural selection is the complete opposite of chance. Chance comes from mutations, then natural selection takes it from there. Evolution doesn't answer how life started, even if scientists are wrong about it it wouldn't affect the theory of evolution.
"Evolution is only a theory; it hasn't been proved."
Evolution is indeed a "theory", a theory, in the scientific sense, is "a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena", it doesn't say its lacks certainty. What evolution has is what any good scientific claim has--evidence, and lots of it. Evolution is supported by a wide range of observations throughout the fields of genetics, anatomy, ecology, animal behavior, paleontology, and others. If you want to challenge the theory of evolution, you must address that evidence. You must show that the evidence is either wrong or irrelevant or that it fits another theory better. Of course, to do this, you must know both the theory and the evidence.
Its funny how Illuminattile quickly jumped at W210 post when he quoted Trueorigins.com and other religious websites saying how its sad and that more 'rational' people can't learn from them, yet just above and on numerous other occasions Glocky linked and used Talkorigins.com information to reply to W210 trueorigins' post.These websistes go back and forth at each other like children. Kind of like my religion is right, no my religion is right, you know one belief system vs another.
But thats ok because the people behind Talkorigins are not religious but the people behind trueorigins are so that automaticaly makes talk right and true wrong. Oh the hilarity in that.
No there aren't. This is still a wish and will always be a wish, you know it and many evolutionists know it, yet there are still some evolutionists who still cling to this belief as if their lives depended on it. Let it go already. You can still believe in Evolution and admit that there are zero transitional fossils, it's not an attack against your religious belief it's just a fact.
Also Creationists changed fuck all, If there was anyone who changed the meaning of a transitional fossil, it was Darwin himself. Because it was he who pointed out this problem that there are no links between amphibians evolving into reptiles and reptiles into birds and so on. Not creationists who are asking for "frogs with wolf paws", i dont know where you came up with that..
But thats ok because the people behind Talkorigins are not religious but the people behind trueorigins are so that automaticaly makes talk right and true wrong. Oh the hilarity in that.
No there aren't. This is still a wish and will always be a wish, you know it and many evolutionists know it, yet there are still some evolutionists who still cling to this belief as if their lives depended on it. Let it go already. You can still believe in Evolution and admit that there are zero transitional fossils, it's not an attack against your religious belief it's just a fact.
Also Creationists changed fuck all, If there was anyone who changed the meaning of a transitional fossil, it was Darwin himself. Because it was he who pointed out this problem that there are no links between amphibians evolving into reptiles and reptiles into birds and so on. Not creationists who are asking for "frogs with wolf paws", i dont know where you came up with that..
Do you require faith to believe in gravity, Teck? 
Strictly speaking, gravity is also still a theory. A scientific theory that has yet to be disproven by factual evidence, not unlike the theory of evolution.
Why do you religi fundi's accept so much the scientific world has to offer (I'm talking the whole lot, cell phones, cars, heating, double glazing, petting zoo's), yet stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that evolution is the way living things work?
If your camp would argue that "evolution is the way the world works, but God set it all in motion", good! Because the latter question is still a question, how we all came into being is still unknown. Some wait for science to explain, some look to religion. Fair game.
But still defending the theory of creationism (it's not even a theory really, it's a story) in the 21st century is hilarious.
What is your (i.e. fundi's) beef with the theory of evolution? What makes it so unacceptable for you that you need to bash it at every available opportunity? Is it "that we came from monkeys"? I've heard that one often enough. As if it would make us anything less than what we are know. As if you need to crawl back into the ocean a coelecanth the next day. Nothing weird will happen if we accept the theory. The earth won't collapse, animals won't revolt. What is it, then?
It's a matter of time, really. Fourhundred years ago the "fundi" camp was jumping high and low yelling that Earth was flat. The "race" for explaning things is being won by the scientific community. By a landslide. And it won't change, either.
And oh yeah, all you fundi's trying to put acceptance of a scientific theory under the same header as "religion" or "faith". Phunni attempt to lower us to your level, fundi's. Except that "belief" in the theory of evolution doesn't require blind obedience. I look at the factual evidence and conclude that up to now, the theory of natural evolution explains most and sounds more feasible than the rest. It's not a religion where I believe basically whatever the fuck I want to without having any kind of theoretical or practical foundation to base my beliefs off.
But anyway, you cavemen stay stuck in your own little world, but next time you pick up a cell phone or drive a car, remember who you own for it.
That's right, science, bitch.
Strictly speaking, gravity is also still a theory. A scientific theory that has yet to be disproven by factual evidence, not unlike the theory of evolution.
Why do you religi fundi's accept so much the scientific world has to offer (I'm talking the whole lot, cell phones, cars, heating, double glazing, petting zoo's), yet stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that evolution is the way living things work?
If your camp would argue that "evolution is the way the world works, but God set it all in motion", good! Because the latter question is still a question, how we all came into being is still unknown. Some wait for science to explain, some look to religion. Fair game.
But still defending the theory of creationism (it's not even a theory really, it's a story) in the 21st century is hilarious.
What is your (i.e. fundi's) beef with the theory of evolution? What makes it so unacceptable for you that you need to bash it at every available opportunity? Is it "that we came from monkeys"? I've heard that one often enough. As if it would make us anything less than what we are know. As if you need to crawl back into the ocean a coelecanth the next day. Nothing weird will happen if we accept the theory. The earth won't collapse, animals won't revolt. What is it, then?
It's a matter of time, really. Fourhundred years ago the "fundi" camp was jumping high and low yelling that Earth was flat. The "race" for explaning things is being won by the scientific community. By a landslide. And it won't change, either.
And oh yeah, all you fundi's trying to put acceptance of a scientific theory under the same header as "religion" or "faith". Phunni attempt to lower us to your level, fundi's. Except that "belief" in the theory of evolution doesn't require blind obedience. I look at the factual evidence and conclude that up to now, the theory of natural evolution explains most and sounds more feasible than the rest. It's not a religion where I believe basically whatever the fuck I want to without having any kind of theoretical or practical foundation to base my beliefs off.
But anyway, you cavemen stay stuck in your own little world, but next time you pick up a cell phone or drive a car, remember who you own for it.
That's right, science, bitch.
Duke said:
Do you require faith to believe in gravity, Teck?
Strictly speaking, gravity is also still a theory. A scientific theory that has yet to be disproven by factual evidence, not unlike the theory of evolution.
Strictly speaking, gravity is also still a theory. A scientific theory that has yet to be disproven by factual evidence, not unlike the theory of evolution.
Great you pointed that out, Cell phones, cars, heating all were created and had designers, so did everything else, thank you very much. Also it's simple and obvious why i refuse to accept evolution because life resulting from non-life, matter resulting from nothing, and humans resulting from animals are an impossibility of science and the natural world.
Thats what evolution is, a story disguised in science founded by a racist madman and followed by anti-creationism extremists such as yourself. The way you're reacting with all this hostility and anger is no different than the way a religious nut would react if his religious beliefs are attacked.
Lol my beef with evolution? I have no beef with it, just dont sit there and tell me its scientific and that your belief in this fairy tale is much more superior and logical than my belief in a God.
How do you know this?
Give me a break you raving lunatic, this is not a competition or a race, I believe in REAL science just as much as I believe in God, and im counting on science to rid the world of this rediculous theory in the near future, It really is a "theory in Crisis" and that day is near us.
What evidence?? you people go on and on about this evidence that proves evolution to be a fact without question yet everyone falls short of providing these evidences. There are 21 pages in this thread and not once did you provide a single piece of this evidence in support of evolution that you so-love to tell us about. all ive seen so far is copy and paste jobs like the long ass post Jokerman made as if its something new and hasnt already been said. It says this and that as if someone is telling a fictional story with no examples to back up what it claims.
Calm down, had I known my disbelief in Evolution bothered you that much I would'nt have said anything.
Don't talk about impossibilities, you believe in God. Nothing is more far-fetched than the idea of a guy who came from nowhere and had the power to create the entire Universe and everything in it.
Right or wrong, the theory of evolution is superior to the myth of creation. Evolution was devised as a scientific theory to explain - using established laws and documented phenomena - how life on this planet came to be what it is today. Creationism, on the other hand, comes from books written thousands of years ago that offer no evidence of their credibility. Religion has no basis in fact. Nobody undertook painstaking research, carefully analysed the results and said "It's magic!". No, someone just decided that there was a God, and for whatever reason that God became more popular than the other Gods and now we have Islam, and Christianity, and Judaism. Even you, as stubborn as you are, must recognise the difference between a scientific theory and a religious belief. Evolution wasn't created to give easy answers to hard questions, to appease people worried about death or to make people fall in line and do what they're told. It's science. It might be good science, it might be bad science, but it's science. Even if it's wrong, it's a noble and genuine attempt to explain the observations that scientists in various field have made. Paint it as a conspiracy against organised religion if you want to, but you know that it's wrong and you know that nobody believes you when you say it.
Right or wrong, the theory of evolution is superior to the myth of creation. Evolution was devised as a scientific theory to explain - using established laws and documented phenomena - how life on this planet came to be what it is today. Creationism, on the other hand, comes from books written thousands of years ago that offer no evidence of their credibility. Religion has no basis in fact. Nobody undertook painstaking research, carefully analysed the results and said "It's magic!". No, someone just decided that there was a God, and for whatever reason that God became more popular than the other Gods and now we have Islam, and Christianity, and Judaism. Even you, as stubborn as you are, must recognise the difference between a scientific theory and a religious belief. Evolution wasn't created to give easy answers to hard questions, to appease people worried about death or to make people fall in line and do what they're told. It's science. It might be good science, it might be bad science, but it's science. Even if it's wrong, it's a noble and genuine attempt to explain the observations that scientists in various field have made. Paint it as a conspiracy against organised religion if you want to, but you know that it's wrong and you know that nobody believes you when you say it.
Define what a transitional fossil is please, theres no point arguing with someone when one doesn't understand what it is (learned the hard way with W210).
Darwin said transitional fossils were a problem because he wrote that 100 years ago! We've learned a LOT more in those 100 years. He never said there were no links between reptiles into birds, infact he said the Archaeopteryx reinforced his theory 2 years later when it was discovered.
Creationists believe in a lot of things, i wouldn't be suprised if they believed a transitional fossil was a frog with wolf paws.
Darwin said transitional fossils were a problem because he wrote that 100 years ago! We've learned a LOT more in those 100 years. He never said there were no links between reptiles into birds, infact he said the Archaeopteryx reinforced his theory 2 years later when it was discovered.
Creationists believe in a lot of things, i wouldn't be suprised if they believed a transitional fossil was a frog with wolf paws.
Actually, I liked the link on there to that scientist who rebutted those 5 points. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html. Your site failed to refute what he said, yet, of course, believe they did.
:thumb:I just love it whenever Evolution is being hammered and when its believers are cornered and have nothing to reply with they instead do a 180 and say 'umm umm well creationism is no better'. There is a big difference between evolution and creationism, and you should know that difference.
I will stop talkin about impossibilities when evolution is no longer labeled a scientific theory and Natural Selection is finally proclaimed an intelligent GOD capable of creating and giving life to millions of different kinds of species. Thats the difference. when that day comes i will admit that anything is possible with the theory, but until then Evolution IS an impossibility of science and the natural world. Evolutionists know this, they're just unwilling to accept it because it's really the only alternative to creationism, Which explains why we see this obvious bias towards Evolution.
Infact many Evolutionists have come forth and admitted their extreme degree of bias in this matter. Some even have admitted that their approach has not been scientific or objective at all. Many admit to the severe lack of evidence for evolution and that they have accepted their conclutions only because they are unwilling to accept that evolution never occured. Henry Morris (one of many) a one time Evolutionist had this to say.
"Many ...believe in evolution for the simple reason that they think science has proven it to be a `fact' and, therefore, it must be accepted... In recent years, a great many people...having finally been persuaded to make a real examination of the problem of evolution, have become convinced of its fallacy and are now convinced anti-evolutionists. Henry Morris--former evolutionist"
I dont need you telling me what creationism is, what it explains and what it doesnt, its a faith belief system, so dont expect evidence. Evolution on the other hand is 'not' so i expect evidence in support of it not evidence against it. If Evolution is true and being the big time 'phenomena' that it is, where is the fucking evidence? it's still unseen and unproven therefore its a faith. Why do we see very little and unclear evidence of this marvel event thats believed to have began billions of years ago and still is? This planet should be riddled with evidence of this event, yet we find very little to none.
And you're sitting there tellin me it is superior than creationism? get real, Belief in a God will always be superior than a belief in Evolution.
I will stop talkin about impossibilities when evolution is no longer labeled a scientific theory and Natural Selection is finally proclaimed an intelligent GOD capable of creating and giving life to millions of different kinds of species. Thats the difference. when that day comes i will admit that anything is possible with the theory, but until then Evolution IS an impossibility of science and the natural world. Evolutionists know this, they're just unwilling to accept it because it's really the only alternative to creationism, Which explains why we see this obvious bias towards Evolution.
Infact many Evolutionists have come forth and admitted their extreme degree of bias in this matter. Some even have admitted that their approach has not been scientific or objective at all. Many admit to the severe lack of evidence for evolution and that they have accepted their conclutions only because they are unwilling to accept that evolution never occured. Henry Morris (one of many) a one time Evolutionist had this to say.
"Many ...believe in evolution for the simple reason that they think science has proven it to be a `fact' and, therefore, it must be accepted... In recent years, a great many people...having finally been persuaded to make a real examination of the problem of evolution, have become convinced of its fallacy and are now convinced anti-evolutionists. Henry Morris--former evolutionist"
I dont need you telling me what creationism is, what it explains and what it doesnt, its a faith belief system, so dont expect evidence. Evolution on the other hand is 'not' so i expect evidence in support of it not evidence against it. If Evolution is true and being the big time 'phenomena' that it is, where is the fucking evidence? it's still unseen and unproven therefore its a faith. Why do we see very little and unclear evidence of this marvel event thats believed to have began billions of years ago and still is? This planet should be riddled with evidence of this event, yet we find very little to none.
And you're sitting there tellin me it is superior than creationism? get real, Belief in a God will always be superior than a belief in Evolution.
We've had this discussion before, and I believe I mentioned the University of Michagan's museum, as a for instance. Your reply was something like, "Sure, you mention that because you know I can't get there." Ok, so it must not be there than. As I said, i didn't know where you were or where you can get to. The evidence is where it is. So it has to be near you, huh? Ok, go to your local Mosque. Study the people there. They are proof of evolution. Your religious beliefs are the greatest proof of evolution ever, since religion developed in primitive man for his needs back then.
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