Who Are You?

[Jokerman]

We need a theory of personal identity. Ask yourself a question. Are you the same person today as you were say ten years ago?

Physically, of course, you’re different. All the cells that made up your body ten years ago, except brain cells, have died and been replaced. You also look different.

Mentally you’ve also changed. You probably believe many things today that you didn’t 10 years ago. Today you have various memories, opinions, feelings, emotions, desires, goals, projects, fears, that you didn’t have ten years ago. We’re all constantly changing – physically, psychologically, and emotionally. So, how can we be the same person from one time to the next?

Some say we can’t. Probably the first to say this was Heraclitus, an ancient Greek philosopher. He said a lot of things, most of them incomprehensible, but his most famous proclamation was “You can’t step into the same river twice.” Insane, but mostly harmless. No, what he meant was the water molecules that made up the river a month ago are completely different from the ones that make it up today. So that makes it a different river. Is he right?

How can we be said to have a personal identity if we are constantly changing? And what doesn’t change about us that we can identify as “us?”

 

[Valeoz]

Social Security?

Nah but really... So you're saying we technically do not exist? As you say how could we be absolute to ourselves if there is constant change.

But anyways, to answer your last question. I say memories or better yet, our sub-consicous memories. Each human being is distinct and unique from the rest of us. Why is that? We are born and composed of the same material. So why are we different? Our past. If you stood out in the rain with no coat, you would have gotten sick. If you haven't been born, you wouldn't exist. The memories you're body keeps phsically (such as scars) and mentally gives you your identity. Your first love, when you lost your virginty, and even your first best friend. Nobody can take those memories away, because it is what creates you today. That is your persona identity. Nobody else can feel the sadness you felt when someone you loved died, they didn't love them nor had the experiences you had with them. Nor can anyone feel the pain when you gotten cut by a knife, they didn't get cut or even in that location which could increase the pain substantially.

Try to look at it this way. From Heraclitus' quote, I can say that you are stepping in the same river. The water molecules that created that river in the beginning brings forth the water molecules that you are now stepping into. If those water molecules in the beginning did not exist, there would be no river. So, to say you do not step in it twice is to say, it existed then it no longer, to completely never been born (never recorded), then existed again. Let me try to best put it into the quote, when you put your foot into the river, the river exists, it is being recorded. When you take your foot out, it no longer exists, never felt it, touched it, nothing. This is where friction occurs, because the river still exists, it has a personal identity. The beginning water molecules gave its personal identity.

These are my first thoughts on it. Hope it makes sense.

 

[one mc on dj]

Are you the same person you were 10 years ago?

If the answer is yes that can mean only 2 things...

1. Ur a piece of lying shit

2. You have a wrong view of urself..

 

[Illuminattile]

If an 80 year old man travelled back in time to meet himself at age 10, do you think the 10 year old would recognise him? They probably wouldn't look anything alike, their personalities and opinions will be very different, having been shaped by time and experience...I don't know, there isn't any rational explanation as to why they would, suggesting that they might as well be entirely different people. It's quite a strange and worrying concept, really.

If we could do such an experiment, we might have an answer.

 

[ac78]

10 years ago i was fuckin 9 years old, how fuckin old are u? u old piece of raggedy shit

 

[Jokerman]

^Here is a person who is the same as he was 10 years ago. He still thinks and acts like a 9-year old. Amazing!

 

[Luv4Pac4Ever]

Good question, and one that I have no clue the answer to. Of course you're not going to be the same person you were 10 years ago. Things that you go through during those 10 years will greatly influence you and change you no doubt. I don't think there would be a way to remain the same over 10 years time. Your experiences and changes in the world, the environment, society, etc will mold and shape who you'll be after 10 years. Only thing I can think of that may not change over years is your love for your family (immediate family like mother, father, sister, brother, grandparents). Of course there will be some people that have arguments or whatnot with family members but usually that doesn't change your feelings for them for an extended period of time. Maybe for a little while, but not forever, least not in most cases. Most of us will always have the same kind of love for our family forever.
You might could remain the same for a year, but not for 10 years. Seems like that would be impossible.
Peace.

 

[H.B.]

It is a difficult question to answer, however I'd have to say that although our cells change (with the exception of brain cells) we are the same person. We recognize people when we recognize certain characteristics of their personality. Say for example, you had a very close friend in high school, and you bumped into that same person 15 years later. Your friend has had multiple cosmetic surgeries and looks nothing like he or she did back in high school. That person says, he or she is your friend, but you don't believe it. If they were to recall specific memories only he or she would know, you would know it is the same person, even though all of their physical characteristics are different.

Take a different scenario. You see someone in the street that looks exactly like an friend of yours. You approach him or her, and try to persuade that person that you and him or her knew each other long ago. That person tells you "i am not your friend." though that person has the same physical characteristics, it is not the same person, because he or she has had different experiences than your friend.

To sum it all up, one's mind determines who one is, more spefically one's experiences does so.

I don't know if I made much sense.

 

[Jokerman]

To sum it all up, one's mind determines who one is, more spefically one's experiences does so.

So you and Valeoz are basically saying memories or experiences are who we are. Does that mean we have no personal identity as babies, before we really have memories or experiences? What about those who lose their memories?

 

[H.B.]

New Borns don't have any identity because they do not know any better. He or she does not know whether or not to eat wood or grapes. A new born does not even know who its parents are.

As for someone who has lost his or her memory, he or she does not have any identity either. One could tell another who has lost his memory, what food to eat, what his or her name is, who his or her spouse is, anything for that matter.

 

[Luv4Pac4Ever]

A new born does not even know who its parents are.

Are you serious? A newborn DOES know who it's parents are. Especially it's mother. They can recognize their mother right away if put close to her body by her heartbeat. That's what they hear the most when they're in the womb. Sure they may forget if taken away for a long period of time as their memories are very short as an infant, but they do know if they're around them constantly.

Jokerman, I guess our experiences and memories do kind of make us who we are. You learn from your experiences so they make you see things differently than before. As for having personal identities as babies, I really don't know the answer to that. Maybe so because have you ever heard someone say a baby's developing a personality by the way they act, their mannerisms? I dunno. As for someone suffering from amnesia, they probably will be an entirely different person than they were before they lost their memory. I guess because they know they were someone different, they struggle to remember who they were and maybe try to become who they think they were or even who they want to be.

 

[Jokerman]

Yes, a newborn does know it's mother. Even fetuses have unique experiences in the womb that may make them different from each other. Eveyone has a unique biochemistry that makes them different from each other.

But let me make things more complicated. What about ppl with split or multiple personalities? Who are they?

What is it to be a person? What is necessary, and what is sufficient, for something to count as a person, as opposed to a non-person? At what point in your development from a fertilized egg did there come to be a person? What would it take for a chimpanzee or a computer to be a person, if they could ever be? Computer's have memories. Chimp's have some memories of their experiences. You can teach one chimp to sign using basic words. Isn't that chimp different from one who can't?

Dogs have different personalities. You can train them differently. Do they have personal identities? Are we no different than dogs?

 

[The.Menace]

I'm no-one from no-where.

 

[H.B.]

What about ppl with split or multiple personalities? Who are they?

People don't have split or multiple personalities. They have multiple aspects to one personality.

What is it to be a person? What is necessary, and what is sufficient, for something to count as a person, as opposed to a non-person? At what point in your development from a fertilized egg did there come to be a person? What would it take for a chimpanzee or a computer to be a person, if they could ever be? Computer's have memories. Chimp's have some memories of their experiences. You can teach one chimp to sign using basic words. Isn't that chimp different from one who can't?

Computers can never be humans becaue it has no emtions and it is always told what to do. If you shut a computer off, it won't turn back on by itself, unless somebody programmed that into it.

As for chimps, they are not humans because they not hare the same DNA as us.

 

[Jokerman]

Computers can never be humans becaue it has no emtions and it is always told what to do. If you shut a computer off, it won't turn back on by itself, unless somebody programmed that into it.

As for chimps, they are not humans because they not share the same DNA as us.

But, see, I wasn't asking if computers or chimps are human. Of course they're not. I was asking do they have personal identities. Since you were basing identity on memory and experiences, not on humanness or emotions, why wouldn't computers and chimps that are different from each other have personal identities? It seems like you believe, "Well, you first have to be human before memories and experiences can give you a personal identity." My question is why? Personal bias? Either memories do determine identity or they don't.

I know, this is a difficult subject. I'm just trying to get ppl to think and question their assumptions.

 

[makadon]

We need a theory of personal identity. Ask yourself a question. Are you the same person today as you were say ten years ago?

Physically, of course, you’re different. All the cells that made up your body ten years ago, except brain cells, have died and been replaced. You also look different.

DNA & Finger-Prints, Birth marks, Your Eyes, these never change.

Mentally you’ve also changed. You probably believe many things today that you didn’t 10 years ago. Today you have various memories, opinions, feelings, emotions, desires, goals, projects, fears, that you didn’t have ten years ago. We’re all constantly changing – physically, psychologically, and emotionally. So, how can we be the same person from one time to the next?

Experience dosn't change the person, Experience only increases the knowledge of a person.

Some say we can’t. Probably the first to say this was Heraclitus, an ancient Greek philosopher. He said a lot of things, most of them incomprehensible, but his most famous proclamation was “You can’t step into the same river twice.” Insane, but mostly harmless. No, what he meant was the water molecules that made up the river a month ago are completely different from the ones that make it up today. So that makes it a different river. Is he right?

It is the same river what it amounts to is different water.

How can we be said to have a personal identity if we are constantly changing? And what doesn’t change about us that we can identify as “us?”

Experience. Everyone has a different experience.

 

[Sebastian]

Experience dosn't change the person, Experience only increases the knowledge of a person.

of course it does! for example: there is a young, happy, out-going child who enjoys life to the fullest...then this young girl gets raped. this experience will change the person dramatically. probably this girl would be a totally different person compared to the one before the rape.

 

[The.Menace]

Experience dosn't change the person, Experience only increases the knowledge of a person.

Of course experience can change a persons personality. u can't deny that.

 

[~live2tell~]

We need a theory of personal identity. Ask yourself a question. Are you the same person today as you were say ten years ago?

Physically, of course, you’re different. All the cells that made up your body ten years ago, except brain cells, have died and been replaced. You also look different.

Mentally you’ve also changed. You probably believe many things today that you didn’t 10 years ago. Today you have various memories, opinions, feelings, emotions, desires, goals, projects, fears, that you didn’t have ten years ago. We’re all constantly changing – physically, psychologically, and emotionally. So, how can we be the same person from one time to the next?

Some say we can’t. Probably the first to say this was Heraclitus, an ancient Greek philosopher. He said a lot of things, most of them incomprehensible, but his most famous proclamation was “You can’t step into the same river twice.” Insane, but mostly harmless. No, what he meant was the water molecules that made up the river a month ago are completely different from the ones that make it up today. So that makes it a different river. Is he right?

How can we be said to have a personal identity if we are constantly changing? And what doesn’t change about us that we can identify as “us?”

I'm definitely not the same person I was 10 years ago, my life is totally different today than it was back then. I've changed positively and negatively but I've most definitely changed.

I've experienced certain things that have changed me and my outlook on life. My views on certain things have changed because I'm older and I've gained more knowledge.

I believe 23 is still pretty young so I probably still got alot of changing to do yet, still alot to experience and learn (I hope).

As for a personal identity, its kinda a broad horizon isn't it? Fingerprints, eye colour, DNA, scars I guess they stay the same.

Then there are thought processes, no matter how much we change our personalities etc we mostly analyse in the same way, we have certain 'quirks' that stay with us throughout our lifetime.

But physically and mentally I don't think we have a personal identity - or at least one that stays with us for a lifetime.

 

[Jurhum]

I am the same person execept I have added more knowldge and experience over what I have known before.