something to think about
- Thread starter 1671...1396
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Since you agree, then why is it strange that Arabs come here? It's not I personally know many Arabs that come here for flight school. Never was strange. Before 9/11 Arab student pilots never did anything to warrant their investigation. So maybe field offices thought that " Whats the point, it's some tin foil hats getting worried."
the point is...it is strange that there was alot of intelligence on "arab" terrorist planning on doing things with planes
now i believe 2 of them were already on the goverment watch list
that's the point... its not strange in the broad context but if your beefing with a certain kind of group you should watch that group when it comes to civilian airline training......
Before 9/11 their was no real problems, I am sure that Gulf War 1 could be thought of as a problem, but that was with Iraq, mainly with Saddam.
We had not invaded any Arab country before then, we bombed Libya but after that militarily left it alone. Bombed Sudan and Afghanistan for their role with the USS Cole, but for the most part we would only hit when we were attacked. So we had no reason to watch out for the Arabs.
Edit: In addition it is CIVILIAN training, you pay for it, anyone really can do it.
those were country's who were known to fund terrorism!!!
the uss cole was a terrorist attack on america abroad
and the embasy attacks,the countless other one's??
so in that case if they were attacking us abroad ...we dont need to be concerned that hey attack us at home??
that's a great assumption....but i dont think it was anything new to our goverment who just played dumb!
No not at all just no one really imagined the 9/11 style attacks being carried out. We if anything expected more of the WTC 1 attacks, car bombs. We had always been attacks with bombs basically, the two embassays, USS Cole, PanAm103.. WTC 1.
Although you can think of a scenario with hijacked planes being crashed into buildings, it's something perhaps that no one really thought could happen.
I think more than anything people did not have vision that such attacks would happen. It's like Gulf War 1 Saddam had to move around his army, and we surely saw it comming, but we thought it was a bluff.
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- When a Twin Cities flight instructor phoned the FBI last August to alert the agency that a terrorist might be taking lessons to fly a jumbo jet, he did it in a dramatic way:
"Do you realize how serious this is?" the instructor asked an FBI agent. "This man wants training on a 747. A 747 fully loaded with fuel could be used as a weapon!"
The aviation student he was talking about was Zacarias Moussaoui, who was arrested the following day and last week was charged in a federal indictment with conspiring with Osama bin Laden and others to carry out the Sept. 11 attacks.
New details of how Moussaoui raised suspicions at the Pan Am International Flight Academy in Eagan -- and the company's eerily prescient tip -- are emerging from the briefings the school recently gave to congressional offices.
The still-unidentified flight instructor became wary of Moussaoui immediately, according to Minnesota Rep. Jim Oberstar and others with direct knowledge of the briefings.
Moussaoui first raised eyebrows when, during a simple introductory exchange, he said he was from France, but then didn't seem to understand when the instructor spoke French to him.
Moussaoui then became belligerent and evasive about his background, Oberstar and other sources said. In addition, he seemed inept in basic flying procedures, while seeking expensive training on an advanced commercial jet simulator.
Besides alerting the FBI about Moussaoui, the school's Phoenix office called the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) early this year about another student -- Hani Hanjour, who was believed to be the pilot of the plane that flew into the Pentagon on Sept. 11. The school had raised questions about Hanjour's limited ability to speak English, the universal language of aviation.
An FAA representative sat in on a class to observe Hanjour, who was from Saudi Arabia, and discussed with school officials finding an Arabic-speaking person to help him with his English, said Oberstar and others with direct knowledge of the school's briefings.
Oberstar and Minnesota Rep. Martin Sabo, who also was briefed by the school, praised Pan Am for its efforts to safeguard the skies and for passing federal authorities clues to possible terrorist activities before Sept. 11.
They said that, with the benefit of hindsight, it appears that the FBI and the FAA could have responded more vigorously.
"From what I've heard, the school was clearly more alert than federal officials," Sabo said.
Oberstar said "alarm bells" should have gone off at the FAA when Pan Am reported Hanjour's limited English skills -- as least as far as his pilot's training went. He also said he had no major complaints about the FBI's Minneapolis office. But he added that the office's response to the Eagan flight instructor's calls was so "bureaucratic" that a less-determined tipster might have stopped calling.
Sabo, who is the senior Democrat on a House appropriations transportation subcommittee, declined to discuss specifics of his briefing from Pan Am. But he said he would give the school "an A-plus for ... seeing a problem, reporting it and continuing to pursue it."
Oberstar, the ranking Democrat on the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said Pan Am "acted in the public interest" with both Moussaoui and Hanjour.
Pan Am Vice President Marilyn Ladner said, "We are pleased that our tip to the FBI turned out to be helpful. We'd prefer not to comment any further on the ongoing investigation."
A Pan Am representative first contacted Sabo's office a couple of weeks after the attacks. The firm sought help in prodding the Red Cross to provide grief counseling for shocked employees at its Eagan facility, where Moussaoui had sought training.
"Do you realize how serious this is?" the instructor asked an FBI agent. "This man wants training on a 747. A 747 fully loaded with fuel could be used as a weapon!"
The aviation student he was talking about was Zacarias Moussaoui, who was arrested the following day and last week was charged in a federal indictment with conspiring with Osama bin Laden and others to carry out the Sept. 11 attacks.
New details of how Moussaoui raised suspicions at the Pan Am International Flight Academy in Eagan -- and the company's eerily prescient tip -- are emerging from the briefings the school recently gave to congressional offices.
The still-unidentified flight instructor became wary of Moussaoui immediately, according to Minnesota Rep. Jim Oberstar and others with direct knowledge of the briefings.
Moussaoui first raised eyebrows when, during a simple introductory exchange, he said he was from France, but then didn't seem to understand when the instructor spoke French to him.
Moussaoui then became belligerent and evasive about his background, Oberstar and other sources said. In addition, he seemed inept in basic flying procedures, while seeking expensive training on an advanced commercial jet simulator.
Besides alerting the FBI about Moussaoui, the school's Phoenix office called the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) early this year about another student -- Hani Hanjour, who was believed to be the pilot of the plane that flew into the Pentagon on Sept. 11. The school had raised questions about Hanjour's limited ability to speak English, the universal language of aviation.
An FAA representative sat in on a class to observe Hanjour, who was from Saudi Arabia, and discussed with school officials finding an Arabic-speaking person to help him with his English, said Oberstar and others with direct knowledge of the school's briefings.
Oberstar and Minnesota Rep. Martin Sabo, who also was briefed by the school, praised Pan Am for its efforts to safeguard the skies and for passing federal authorities clues to possible terrorist activities before Sept. 11.
They said that, with the benefit of hindsight, it appears that the FBI and the FAA could have responded more vigorously.
"From what I've heard, the school was clearly more alert than federal officials," Sabo said.
Oberstar said "alarm bells" should have gone off at the FAA when Pan Am reported Hanjour's limited English skills -- as least as far as his pilot's training went. He also said he had no major complaints about the FBI's Minneapolis office. But he added that the office's response to the Eagan flight instructor's calls was so "bureaucratic" that a less-determined tipster might have stopped calling.
Sabo, who is the senior Democrat on a House appropriations transportation subcommittee, declined to discuss specifics of his briefing from Pan Am. But he said he would give the school "an A-plus for ... seeing a problem, reporting it and continuing to pursue it."
Oberstar, the ranking Democrat on the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said Pan Am "acted in the public interest" with both Moussaoui and Hanjour.
Pan Am Vice President Marilyn Ladner said, "We are pleased that our tip to the FBI turned out to be helpful. We'd prefer not to comment any further on the ongoing investigation."
A Pan Am representative first contacted Sabo's office a couple of weeks after the attacks. The firm sought help in prodding the Red Cross to provide grief counseling for shocked employees at its Eagan facility, where Moussaoui had sought training.
Excellent article, this shows that their is no government involvement in 9/11, once the man's story didn't pan out to the agents they arrested him.
They later figured out what he was up to after 9/11, although he was not the intended 20th hijacker, and another man was. I am sure that they had no idea that it was to the extent of planning or scale of which 9/11 occured.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36063
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3989726
Simply said authorities did not put the pieces of this one together, hence the gross oversights.
They later figured out what he was up to after 9/11, although he was not the intended 20th hijacker, and another man was. I am sure that they had no idea that it was to the extent of planning or scale of which 9/11 occured.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36063
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3989726
Simply said authorities did not put the pieces of this one together, hence the gross oversights.
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