Papelbon blows 2 saves in a row to the ROYALS
- Thread starter Butt Rubber
- Start date
well, im sure bruce sutter and all those other legendary closers blew two saves in a row....the closers role is comparable, i guess in a way, to the kicker's in football....it's easy at first...you're in 50-60 outta the 162 games of the year, but when you're up, you better not fuck up.....5 straight fuckups, you're out..not alotta breathing room...
Bachaveli said:
Alright then.Papelbon is no exception.
I'm not looking for pointless arguments.I'm just regulating some absurd claims people make around here.For example,about Jeter being MVP.Everybody in that thread says Ortiz is difinetly MVP but you still pushing your way.
I'm not looking for pointless arguments.I'm just regulating some absurd claims people make around here.For example,about Jeter being MVP.Everybody in that thread says Ortiz is difinetly MVP but you still pushing your way.
Papelbon has not earned his stripes like Mariano (or Bruce Sutter, Dennis Eckersley, Hoyt Wilhelm, Lee Smith, Billy Wagner and Goose Gossage). If they fuck up, they're got history on their side. Pap is a rookie who's way over his head and coming down to earth.
Ok.Be it.Hold on to your opinion real tight.But when ten people tell you one thing and you beleive in other is pointless.
Papelbon has not earned his stripes thats because hes only a rookie.Hasn't even got to the playoffs.Rivera is nowhere close to Papelbon in his rookie year and what he had done and what Papelbon has done now so um shh.
Papelbon has not earned his stripes thats because hes only a rookie.Hasn't even got to the playoffs.Rivera is nowhere close to Papelbon in his rookie year and what he had done and what Papelbon has done now so um shh.
yes..once again being a cubs fan has a pro..... prior and wood were both over worked though...kerry wood was just a slave to baylor and wriggleman.....it wasnt fair at all..prior was destroyed by dusty and all the coaches along side him...in 03, when prior had an option to be rested, they didnt.....now they're paying for it out of their asses....word has it prior will be on the DL before his start, next tuesday.....
with that being said, look at liriano...next, will he be as valuable as hew as this year??? will people flock to him in fantasy drafts? or will he be the next shingo?? come in one year, do well...next year, everyone's figured you out, and your career's over?
also, bank, i think smoltz belongs on that list....i really do....he too will be in the hall of fame...
with that being said, look at liriano...next, will he be as valuable as hew as this year??? will people flock to him in fantasy drafts? or will he be the next shingo?? come in one year, do well...next year, everyone's figured you out, and your career's over?
also, bank, i think smoltz belongs on that list....i really do....he too will be in the hall of fame...
Bachaveli said:
What does Kerry Wood has to do with anything anyway?You're just bringing up irrelevant crap.I didn't say Papelbon was next Clemens.
my point is that if you compare Kerry Woods rookie year to ALOT of hall of fame pitchers, you'd say Wood had the edge as well
thats how fucking stupid your point is.
bank, what the fuck are you bitching about?? i'm on your side man..that was a response to
"But thats beyond the point,all im saying is Papelbon has been perfect up until this point and now he blew up and you all over him.He still has good numbers,better then Rivera."
the fact that papelbon is doing "just as good" as rivera, but rivera has an age factor that makes his performances even more valuable....goddamn...
"But thats beyond the point,all im saying is Papelbon has been perfect up until this point and now he blew up and you all over him.He still has good numbers,better then Rivera."
the fact that papelbon is doing "just as good" as rivera, but rivera has an age factor that makes his performances even more valuable....goddamn...
tennis_dog said:
so pape's gonna be starter next year, you said, AM?
Eric Wilbur said:
Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe it's for the best that we're seeing some chinks in the once-impenetrable armor of Jonathan Papelbon.
At least it might re-open the now-closed discussion as to where his talents are best utilized.
Up until this month, Papelbon has been so filthy dominant as the Red Sox closer that any poor schmo who brought up the question as to whether the Red Sox were going to one day groom him as a starting pitcher was greeted with a chorus of degrading denials. Don't mess with what you have. Papelbon? He's so intense on the mound.
But now ...
OK, I don't mean now, but in 2007 we're talking a different story ... unless you like the prospect of Jason Johnson coming back, Matt Clement sticking around, and re-signing a 54-year-old David Wells to cement what has turned out to be perhaps the weakest point of this Red Sox team. Why not?
It's either a testimonial to the loss of Jason Varitek or just how untouchable he's been that of the six runs the righty has allowed, half of them have come in the past week. His ERA has doubled, and opposing hitters are hitting .313 off him this month. Small sample size, sure, but if it begins a trend, it becomes a warning sign. And by that point, I suppose it's too late anyhow.
Point to the bullpen all you want as this team's crux -- and I'm not arguing that it isn't -- but what effect has the rotation had on the pen’s problems by failing to go more than six innings pretty much every night? Plenty, at least on kids like Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen, who have both had nice stretches this year, but might be petered out at this stage after continually having to bridge the gap.
Besides, how does this sound for '07: Curt Schilling, an AL-adjusted Josh Beckett, Papelbon, a more seasoned Jon Lester, and Tim Wakefield?
Who closes then, smart guy? It could be Hansen. OK, maybe not based on what he showed you this season, but let's not forget the kid is 22 years old. With another year of seasoning, he might be the right guy for the job. Anyone think the Orioles’ Chris Ray would have 24 saves at this point in replacing BJ Ryan?
And yes, while there are your occasional lifers like Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman, closing is a fickle thing; today's stud is tomorrow's Keith Foulke. It's no coincidence really that kids like Ray, Bobby Jenks, and Papelbon are among the league leaders in saves. Teams are always looking for new blood to close after their incumbents seemingly lose it out of nowhere.
Papelbon's 0.94 ERA might illustrate his dominance, but let's not lose focus of the fact that he has blown five of his 35 save opportunities, all since June 1 (which is more than any other AL pitcher in that time frame, according to NESN). That puts him only in about the middle of the pack of all pitchers with save opportunities (Kansas City's Ambiorix Burgos leads the way with a ridiculous 10 blown saves). That might sound like nitpicking to be negative, but there are times when a negative can become a positive.
And with Papelbon taking on the challenge of becoming a 200-inning eater next season, the Red Sox might have a starting five that can significantly adjust the bullpen usage.
And maybe now, we can talk about it. Just talk.
At least it might re-open the now-closed discussion as to where his talents are best utilized.
Up until this month, Papelbon has been so filthy dominant as the Red Sox closer that any poor schmo who brought up the question as to whether the Red Sox were going to one day groom him as a starting pitcher was greeted with a chorus of degrading denials. Don't mess with what you have. Papelbon? He's so intense on the mound.
But now ...
OK, I don't mean now, but in 2007 we're talking a different story ... unless you like the prospect of Jason Johnson coming back, Matt Clement sticking around, and re-signing a 54-year-old David Wells to cement what has turned out to be perhaps the weakest point of this Red Sox team. Why not?
It's either a testimonial to the loss of Jason Varitek or just how untouchable he's been that of the six runs the righty has allowed, half of them have come in the past week. His ERA has doubled, and opposing hitters are hitting .313 off him this month. Small sample size, sure, but if it begins a trend, it becomes a warning sign. And by that point, I suppose it's too late anyhow.
Point to the bullpen all you want as this team's crux -- and I'm not arguing that it isn't -- but what effect has the rotation had on the pen’s problems by failing to go more than six innings pretty much every night? Plenty, at least on kids like Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen, who have both had nice stretches this year, but might be petered out at this stage after continually having to bridge the gap.
Besides, how does this sound for '07: Curt Schilling, an AL-adjusted Josh Beckett, Papelbon, a more seasoned Jon Lester, and Tim Wakefield?
Who closes then, smart guy? It could be Hansen. OK, maybe not based on what he showed you this season, but let's not forget the kid is 22 years old. With another year of seasoning, he might be the right guy for the job. Anyone think the Orioles’ Chris Ray would have 24 saves at this point in replacing BJ Ryan?
And yes, while there are your occasional lifers like Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman, closing is a fickle thing; today's stud is tomorrow's Keith Foulke. It's no coincidence really that kids like Ray, Bobby Jenks, and Papelbon are among the league leaders in saves. Teams are always looking for new blood to close after their incumbents seemingly lose it out of nowhere.
Papelbon's 0.94 ERA might illustrate his dominance, but let's not lose focus of the fact that he has blown five of his 35 save opportunities, all since June 1 (which is more than any other AL pitcher in that time frame, according to NESN). That puts him only in about the middle of the pack of all pitchers with save opportunities (Kansas City's Ambiorix Burgos leads the way with a ridiculous 10 blown saves). That might sound like nitpicking to be negative, but there are times when a negative can become a positive.
And with Papelbon taking on the challenge of becoming a 200-inning eater next season, the Red Sox might have a starting five that can significantly adjust the bullpen usage.
And maybe now, we can talk about it. Just talk.
tennis_dog said:
bank, what the fuck are you bitching about?? i'm on your side man..that was a response to
"But thats beyond the point,all im saying is Papelbon has been perfect up until this point and now he blew up and you all over him.He still has good numbers,better then Rivera."
the fact that papelbon is doing "just as good" as rivera, but rivera has an age factor that makes his performances even more valuable....goddamn...
"But thats beyond the point,all im saying is Papelbon has been perfect up until this point and now he blew up and you all over him.He still has good numbers,better then Rivera."
the fact that papelbon is doing "just as good" as rivera, but rivera has an age factor that makes his performances even more valuable....goddamn...
and bach, how come nobodies agreeing with you if you're correct?
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