I'm link-happy lately but this needs to be shared.
http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html
http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html
Osama bin Laden is dead!
- Thread starter hizzle?
- Start date
I cant find the posts but in reference to the stuff about the UK letting the Nazis take control:
While that is true, it is also a known fact that members of the Bush family (Prescott Bush) profited from their involvement with the backers of Nazi Germany.. This was only stopped in 1942 which is AFTER the US entered the war and they knew what was going on. So the US also had a hand in their rise to power, as they didnt do anything sooner to stop this. Its all politics and pretty much because the bankers run this country
While that is true, it is also a known fact that members of the Bush family (Prescott Bush) profited from their involvement with the backers of Nazi Germany.. This was only stopped in 1942 which is AFTER the US entered the war and they knew what was going on. So the US also had a hand in their rise to power, as they didnt do anything sooner to stop this. Its all politics and pretty much because the bankers run this country
I've never liked Dowd. I've agreed with her from time to time, but she often has a holier-than-thou attitude based on her misinformed point-of-view. I was reminded of this in her column from last Sunday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/opinion/10dowd.html?_r=1
In it she says Bob Dylan sold out by doing a concert in China recently and not singing any of his early protest songs because they were censored out of his playlist by the Chinese authorities. Or worse if he actually chose not to sing them.
Here's what Dylan said yesterday:
"As far as censorship goes, the Chinese government had asked for the names of the songs that I would be playing. There's no logical answer to that, so we sent them the set lists from the previous 3 months. If there were any songs, verses or lines censored, nobody ever told me about it and we played all the songs that we intended to play." (Like "Death to Democracy" and "I Like Mao, Meow")
Also, Dowd complains that he didn't mention some Chinese artist who has been detained by the Chinese authorities and gotten some press recently.
People have always been trying to tell Dylan and us who "Bob Dylan" should be and what he should be doing and how he should be singing. They hated when he started moving away from protest and folk songs and sang about relationships. That's because they have no interest in living art at all. Most never related to his music in the first place. They related to some political agenda. Now they want him to be a time machine for them. He is an ARTIST, not a folk, protest, rock, blues, pop singer. It's not his responsibility to sing an anti-war song everytime there's a war and he makes a TV appearance. It's not his responsibility to mention every unjust political thing going on anywhere he's doing a concert. Just the fucking expectation of that would make me go out of my way not to do it if I had intended to. "I didn't like the concert, he didn't sing any of his old songs." Good, here's tickets to a Hall & Oates concert. "Even though he sang a lot of his old songs, I didn't like it because he changed the arrangements." Go to a Grateful Dead concert.
Dowd quotes Dylan: "In his memoir, “Chronicles,” he stressed that he had no interest in being an anti-establishment Pied Piper and that all the “cultural mumbo jumbo” imprisoned his soul and made him nauseated." But she doesn't relate and her attitude to that is like, how dare he! He has to live up to our (her) image of him.
Uh, no. He sang every song he wanted to and most of them were newer songs because, guess what, that's the materiel he's closest to right now (as am I). As a real follower of his work and not a "fan", the last thing I want to hear are the hits or the old stuff. I'm into the new stuff and the latest voice and I want to hear that live. And he wants to sing it live.
Again, Dylan yesterday getting the last word: "Everybody knows by now that there's a gazillion books on me either out or coming out in the near future. So I'm encouraging anybody who's ever met me, heard me or even seen me, to get in on the action and scribble their own book. You never know, somebody might have a great book in them."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/opinion/10dowd.html?_r=1
In it she says Bob Dylan sold out by doing a concert in China recently and not singing any of his early protest songs because they were censored out of his playlist by the Chinese authorities. Or worse if he actually chose not to sing them.
Here's what Dylan said yesterday:
"As far as censorship goes, the Chinese government had asked for the names of the songs that I would be playing. There's no logical answer to that, so we sent them the set lists from the previous 3 months. If there were any songs, verses or lines censored, nobody ever told me about it and we played all the songs that we intended to play." (Like "Death to Democracy" and "I Like Mao, Meow")
Also, Dowd complains that he didn't mention some Chinese artist who has been detained by the Chinese authorities and gotten some press recently.
People have always been trying to tell Dylan and us who "Bob Dylan" should be and what he should be doing and how he should be singing. They hated when he started moving away from protest and folk songs and sang about relationships. That's because they have no interest in living art at all. Most never related to his music in the first place. They related to some political agenda. Now they want him to be a time machine for them. He is an ARTIST, not a folk, protest, rock, blues, pop singer. It's not his responsibility to sing an anti-war song everytime there's a war and he makes a TV appearance. It's not his responsibility to mention every unjust political thing going on anywhere he's doing a concert. Just the fucking expectation of that would make me go out of my way not to do it if I had intended to. "I didn't like the concert, he didn't sing any of his old songs." Good, here's tickets to a Hall & Oates concert. "Even though he sang a lot of his old songs, I didn't like it because he changed the arrangements." Go to a Grateful Dead concert.
Dowd quotes Dylan: "In his memoir, “Chronicles,” he stressed that he had no interest in being an anti-establishment Pied Piper and that all the “cultural mumbo jumbo” imprisoned his soul and made him nauseated." But she doesn't relate and her attitude to that is like, how dare he! He has to live up to our (her) image of him.
Uh, no. He sang every song he wanted to and most of them were newer songs because, guess what, that's the materiel he's closest to right now (as am I). As a real follower of his work and not a "fan", the last thing I want to hear are the hits or the old stuff. I'm into the new stuff and the latest voice and I want to hear that live. And he wants to sing it live.
Again, Dylan yesterday getting the last word: "Everybody knows by now that there's a gazillion books on me either out or coming out in the near future. So I'm encouraging anybody who's ever met me, heard me or even seen me, to get in on the action and scribble their own book. You never know, somebody might have a great book in them."
I don't disagree, but one misguided article about Dylan isn't a fair representation of her work. She didn't win two Pulitzers complaining about setlists.
And yeah, people who begrudge a genius his artistic evolution aren't the true believers they claim to be. But I can't stay mad at those kids who wanted him to be one thing. They're kind of cute. They helped build the mythology when they deserted him.
I like that very much.
And yeah, people who begrudge a genius his artistic evolution aren't the true believers they claim to be. But I can't stay mad at those kids who wanted him to be one thing. They're kind of cute. They helped build the mythology when they deserted him.
I like that very much.
And so it is your opinion to say I sound like a lunatic and that I reject everything I hear such as "osama is dead!" but it's also my opinion to respectfully disagree with your opinion. No I don't have to be present to believe something, I also don't have to be present at every press release to know who the wolves are, and that we have the wool pulled over our peepers, the majority of us anyways.
Some light reading below, for those of you who are interested, sorry Ristol not you, stear clear as you obviously have already stated "you see no reason not to believe it." Believe what the media spoon feeds you buddy, your loss, not mine.
Coverage of Bin Laden’s 2001 Death and Funeral
In late December 2001, both an Egyptian and a Pakistani paper carried the story that bin Laden had died in Afghanistan of lung complications of end stage renal disease. The articles report that his December 15th funeral was attended by his family, 30 Al Queda fighters and a few Taliban friends. They also refer to an anonymous Afghan official who positively identified the Al Quaeda leader prior to his burial (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html).
Bin Laden’s terminal kidney disease was already public knowledge after an October 2001 Le Figaro story about treatment he received for it in July 2001 at American Hospital in Dubai, as well as the order he placed to have two mobile dialysis machines delivered to Afghanistan. Patient with no kidney function can only be kept alive via dialysis three times a week.
Bin Laden’s View that Killing Innocent Civilians Violates Islam
Griffin goes on to describe five communiques bin Laden issued between 9/11 and his reported death on December 13 or 14, 2001. He feels they are significant for two reasons. Most importantly, bin Laden uses them to deny any involvement or foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. I found this section of the book particularly disturbing, as it paints a very different picture of the Al Qaeda leader than the blood thirsty fanatic portrayed by the Bush administration and the US media. In a September 28, 2001 interview with Unmat (Kurachi), bin Laden specifically condemns the killing of innocent women, children and “other humans” as strictly forbidden by Islam, even in battle. This reiterates an earlier statement he made to JABC’s in 1998 about Islam forbidding the killing of innocent civilians (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a042301muscle&scale=0). He also mentions his obligation as a good Muslim not to lie. In addition, in a September 17, 2001 statement to the Afghan Islamic Press (where bin Laden again denies involvement in 9/11), he refers to an oath of allegiance he has sworn to Mullah Omar that prevents him from planning or ordering terrorist activities on Afghan soil. In this statement he also mentions being falsely blamed for past terrorist activities.
Bin Laden’s Terminal Kidney Disease
Also significant, is that three videotapes recorded immediately post 9/11 reveal a chronically ill individual whose health is deteriorating quickly. In January 2002, “terrorism expert” Peter Bergen discussed the October 7, 2001 video with CNN’s Paula Zahn, observing that bin Laden had “aged enormously” in the four years since Bergen had last seen him. Two days later Zahn discussed a November 16 video (which Griffin believes bin Laden ordered to be released following his death) with CNN’s medical correspondent Dr Sanjay Gupta. Gupta notes that bin Laden’s condition has deteriorated even further since the October 7th tape. He is gaunt and pale, his beard is nearly totally white and his left arm appears paralyzed from a stroke – all of which Gupta finds consistent with advanced renal failure. Gupta also expresses reservations about the feasibility of undergoing dialysis three times a week in Tora Bora, owing to lack of access to electricity, sanitary conditions or blood monitoring.
Griffin then cites a number of government and intelligence sources who all expressed strong certainty in 2001-2002 that bin Laden was dead: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Kenton Keith (spokesman for US-led coalition in Afghanistan), former CIA officer Robert Baer, Islamic studies professor Bruce Lawrence, FBI counter terrorism chief Dale Watson, and Israeli intelligence officials.
Bin Laden’s Posthumous Audio and Videotapes
The middle section of Osama bin Laden: Dead or Alive contains a detailed inventory of 19 bin Laden audio and videotapes released to the media between November 2001 and January 2009, along with detailed evidence that they were most likely fabricated. The first forged videotape, alleged recording November 9, 2001, was released November 13. In it, bin Laden has miraculously recovered from the terminal condition apparent on the November 3 tape (he is heavier and has fuller cheeks and has regained the use of his left arm). Griffin marvels how the Al Qaeda leader suddenly goes downhill again (and again loses the use of his left arm) a week later in his November 16 video). Griffin also finds it highly significant that bin Laden suddenly reverses himself in this video, boasting and gloating about planning the 9/11 attack after spending two months denying any involvement. This pattern – of boasting about 9/11 and threatening further attacks against American civilians – continues in the other 18 tapes released post-2001.
Griffin notes that there was no independent attempt (except by unnamed intelligence officials) to authenticate the November 9 or subsequent audio or videotapes. He also details a number of bizarre discrepancies in each of the tapes, such as bin Laden’s dark black beard in September 2007 (which intelligence and media analysts variously to dyeing his beard – a violation of Wahabi Islam – or shaving it off and wearing a fake one).
Osama's Stunning 2007 Makeover
Who Fabricated the Post-2001 bin Laden Tapes?
The last section of the book concerns Griffin’s (and others’) observations that all tapes released following bin Laden’s reported death surfaced coincidentally when the Bush administration was struggling with low poll numbers or other political embarrassments. For example,a May 23, 2006 audiotape appeared shortly after a Zoby poll revealed that 45% of Americans thought the 9/11 attacks should be reinvestigated – and a September 6, 2007 video appeared the same day as a Zogby poll showing that 51% of Americans wanted Bush and Cheney investigated in relation to 911.
Griffen believes the Pentagon, rather than the FBI or CIA, was the source of the fabricated tapes. Prior to the alleged May 2 storming of bin Laden’s Pakistani fortress, the CIA and FBI have been curiously silent regarding his whereabouts. Griffin finds it significant that the FBI have never included 9/11 as one of bin Laden’s crimes on their Most Wanted webpage – which in 2006 Rex Tomb, the FBI’s chief officer of investigative publicity attributed to the absence of “hard evidence” (the FBI seems unconvinced by all the videotaped confessions) for bin Laden’s involvement in 9/11.
I, like Griffin, find it significant that the CIA closed their bin Laden unit in 2006. In September 2008, former CIA operative Rober Baer polled all the CIA officers involved in monitoring bin Laden’s communications since the early 1990s. None reported any intercepts after December 13, 2001. (www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyID=95285396).
Lots of love to all you Streethoppers up in here, peace out.
Some light reading below, for those of you who are interested, sorry Ristol not you, stear clear as you obviously have already stated "you see no reason not to believe it." Believe what the media spoon feeds you buddy, your loss, not mine.
by David Ray Griffin (author of The New Pearl Harbor)
Osama bin Laden: Dead or Alive attempts to explain how America’s favorite terrorist came to release 19 video and audiotapes following his death and funeral – duly reported by the Associated Press, CBS, CNN, Fox News, the New York Times, the Telegraph and Time magazine – in December 2001. As often happens in the mainstream media, the events Griffin documents have vanished down the old memory hole. Because they are inconvenient to policymakers pursuing a negotiated settlement with the Taliban, US news outlets simply fail to mention them in discussing the alleged May 2 capture and assassination of the Al Qaeda leader.Coverage of Bin Laden’s 2001 Death and Funeral
In late December 2001, both an Egyptian and a Pakistani paper carried the story that bin Laden had died in Afghanistan of lung complications of end stage renal disease. The articles report that his December 15th funeral was attended by his family, 30 Al Queda fighters and a few Taliban friends. They also refer to an anonymous Afghan official who positively identified the Al Quaeda leader prior to his burial (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html).
Bin Laden’s terminal kidney disease was already public knowledge after an October 2001 Le Figaro story about treatment he received for it in July 2001 at American Hospital in Dubai, as well as the order he placed to have two mobile dialysis machines delivered to Afghanistan. Patient with no kidney function can only be kept alive via dialysis three times a week.
Bin Laden’s View that Killing Innocent Civilians Violates Islam
Griffin goes on to describe five communiques bin Laden issued between 9/11 and his reported death on December 13 or 14, 2001. He feels they are significant for two reasons. Most importantly, bin Laden uses them to deny any involvement or foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. I found this section of the book particularly disturbing, as it paints a very different picture of the Al Qaeda leader than the blood thirsty fanatic portrayed by the Bush administration and the US media. In a September 28, 2001 interview with Unmat (Kurachi), bin Laden specifically condemns the killing of innocent women, children and “other humans” as strictly forbidden by Islam, even in battle. This reiterates an earlier statement he made to JABC’s in 1998 about Islam forbidding the killing of innocent civilians (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a042301muscle&scale=0). He also mentions his obligation as a good Muslim not to lie. In addition, in a September 17, 2001 statement to the Afghan Islamic Press (where bin Laden again denies involvement in 9/11), he refers to an oath of allegiance he has sworn to Mullah Omar that prevents him from planning or ordering terrorist activities on Afghan soil. In this statement he also mentions being falsely blamed for past terrorist activities.
Bin Laden’s Terminal Kidney Disease
Also significant, is that three videotapes recorded immediately post 9/11 reveal a chronically ill individual whose health is deteriorating quickly. In January 2002, “terrorism expert” Peter Bergen discussed the October 7, 2001 video with CNN’s Paula Zahn, observing that bin Laden had “aged enormously” in the four years since Bergen had last seen him. Two days later Zahn discussed a November 16 video (which Griffin believes bin Laden ordered to be released following his death) with CNN’s medical correspondent Dr Sanjay Gupta. Gupta notes that bin Laden’s condition has deteriorated even further since the October 7th tape. He is gaunt and pale, his beard is nearly totally white and his left arm appears paralyzed from a stroke – all of which Gupta finds consistent with advanced renal failure. Gupta also expresses reservations about the feasibility of undergoing dialysis three times a week in Tora Bora, owing to lack of access to electricity, sanitary conditions or blood monitoring.
Griffin then cites a number of government and intelligence sources who all expressed strong certainty in 2001-2002 that bin Laden was dead: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Kenton Keith (spokesman for US-led coalition in Afghanistan), former CIA officer Robert Baer, Islamic studies professor Bruce Lawrence, FBI counter terrorism chief Dale Watson, and Israeli intelligence officials.
Bin Laden’s Posthumous Audio and Videotapes
The middle section of Osama bin Laden: Dead or Alive contains a detailed inventory of 19 bin Laden audio and videotapes released to the media between November 2001 and January 2009, along with detailed evidence that they were most likely fabricated. The first forged videotape, alleged recording November 9, 2001, was released November 13. In it, bin Laden has miraculously recovered from the terminal condition apparent on the November 3 tape (he is heavier and has fuller cheeks and has regained the use of his left arm). Griffin marvels how the Al Qaeda leader suddenly goes downhill again (and again loses the use of his left arm) a week later in his November 16 video). Griffin also finds it highly significant that bin Laden suddenly reverses himself in this video, boasting and gloating about planning the 9/11 attack after spending two months denying any involvement. This pattern – of boasting about 9/11 and threatening further attacks against American civilians – continues in the other 18 tapes released post-2001.
Griffin notes that there was no independent attempt (except by unnamed intelligence officials) to authenticate the November 9 or subsequent audio or videotapes. He also details a number of bizarre discrepancies in each of the tapes, such as bin Laden’s dark black beard in September 2007 (which intelligence and media analysts variously to dyeing his beard – a violation of Wahabi Islam – or shaving it off and wearing a fake one).
Osama's Stunning 2007 Makeover
Who Fabricated the Post-2001 bin Laden Tapes?
The last section of the book concerns Griffin’s (and others’) observations that all tapes released following bin Laden’s reported death surfaced coincidentally when the Bush administration was struggling with low poll numbers or other political embarrassments. For example,a May 23, 2006 audiotape appeared shortly after a Zoby poll revealed that 45% of Americans thought the 9/11 attacks should be reinvestigated – and a September 6, 2007 video appeared the same day as a Zogby poll showing that 51% of Americans wanted Bush and Cheney investigated in relation to 911.
Griffen believes the Pentagon, rather than the FBI or CIA, was the source of the fabricated tapes. Prior to the alleged May 2 storming of bin Laden’s Pakistani fortress, the CIA and FBI have been curiously silent regarding his whereabouts. Griffin finds it significant that the FBI have never included 9/11 as one of bin Laden’s crimes on their Most Wanted webpage – which in 2006 Rex Tomb, the FBI’s chief officer of investigative publicity attributed to the absence of “hard evidence” (the FBI seems unconvinced by all the videotaped confessions) for bin Laden’s involvement in 9/11.
I, like Griffin, find it significant that the CIA closed their bin Laden unit in 2006. In September 2008, former CIA operative Rober Baer polled all the CIA officers involved in monitoring bin Laden’s communications since the early 1990s. None reported any intercepts after December 13, 2001. (www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyID=95285396).
Lots of love to all you Streethoppers up in here, peace out.
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