Once again #2

Preach

Well-Known Member
#41
It's wrong.

This is what I came up with:

[(bar-hG/c^5)^1/2]/sr = 3.9336115(89) x 10^-46 cd
(bar-hG/c^5)^1/2 = 5.3904639(43) x 10^-44 s
(bar-hG/c^3)^1/2 = 1.6160204(35) x 10^-35 m [(bar-hc/G)^1/2]/M = 6.6245916(02) x 10^-28
(bar-hc/G)^1/2 = 2.1767500(08) x 10^-8 kg
e/[(bar-hG/c^5)^1/2] = 2.9722423(67) x 10^24 A
[(bar-hc^5/G)^1/2]/k = 1.4169882(01) x 10^32 K


Thus proving the gun ban increased gun crimes. :eek:
lol. :D
 

Prize Gotti

Boots N Cats
Staff member
#42
AM, I have to note, your theory is flawed. A ban on guns means no one owns a registered gun making it hard to trace when a gun is used in a crime. making it easier to use in the crime and get away with it.

If you have system where you are legally entitled to a gun and you must register it, it cuts down gun crime, as that bullet can be traced to the gun and then guns owner.
 

AmerikazMost

Well-Known Member
#43
AM, I have to note, your theory is flawed. A ban on guns means no one owns a registered gun making it hard to trace when a gun is used in a crime. making it easier to use in the crime and get away with it.

If you have system where you are legally entitled to a gun and you must register it, it cuts down gun crime, as that bullet can be traced to the gun and then guns owner.
Let's take a look at which theory is flawed.

Gun crimes are generally committed for two reasons. Either:

1. To protect one's self--through self-defense or intimidation--during the commission of another crime (robbery, rape, etc.)
2. To satisfy some psychological desire (rage, depression, anxiety, insanity, etc.) through violence (murder, injury, etc.)

I've never heard of anyone committing a gun crime because their gun wasn't registered and they'd get away with it.

In fact, I cannot recall a single circumstance in which a crime was averted because the gun used in it was registered. In most instances where a registered weapon is used, that incident is a single act of violence, such as a husband killing his wife for cheating on him or a student shooting up a school. Only in the rarest occasions does a serial criminal use a firearm that is registered to him or her because that would be stupid. For this reason, the presence of legal, registered firearms doesn't stop crimes, it just makes some of them easier to investigate and prosecute.

However, it is my contention that in the absence of legal firearms, those single acts of violence would drop significantly because emotional factors would be taken out of the equation. Angry husbands, and other offenders like them, would have to take substantial time and energy to plan and execute a premeditated murder instead of "just going off." For those whose emotions don't subside, usually the motive is so strong and so apparent that you wouldn't need registration to find the culprit (registration of the gun plays no significance in prosecution either). As for the serial offenders, they would be unaffected because they don't use registered firearms anyway, and there's no reason to believe that this group would grow simply because of the availability of unregistered weapons. Like I said before, that's not why people commit crimes.
 

Preach

Well-Known Member
#44
i want to air a theory.

think very metaphorically for this paragraph. imagine that your brain with all its features can be explained as a list with 12 available slots ranging from 1-12. let's say that each of these slots represent an aspect of human life that is important, even unavoidable in some cases. like love. a human will not exist that doesn't feel love, unless he or she is a mutation. this is a very basic feat of human life, and it is overlapped by several of the important aspects of being human. the need to feel emotional security is related to love, but on a larger scale, the need to feel security can be put in many different booths, as far as important aspects of human life go. i can foresee a lot of potential outcomes from banning guns or even making them harder to legally purchase. let's imagine that the us put a ban on the public owning guns, or created a stricter gun legislation. let's imagine further that doing this took away the feeling of freedom for a lot of people, and the feeling of security. two slots are now empty on the 12 slot list, and instead of being left empty, your sub-conscious will try to fill them somehow. if you're dying for a cigarette, most people know that they can eat a meal or do something very preoccupying instead. we know that instead of kicking one habit for good, changing it with a better habit is always a lot easier to do. surely you see the connection i'm trying to make. soon as americans can't own guns, can't talk about guns, soon as they re-structure the NRA because all the americans who used to own guns are no longer allowed to, something needs to substantiate these needs. that doesn't mean that everyone who used to have a need to own a gun is suddenly gonna start having the awkwardest, most random needs and desires, but rather, that person's psyche will somehow have to change. a forced change to a person's psyche... that's almost a moral debate.

the principle upon which the states were based is that of freedom. stricter gun laws could, to the worst of patriotic extemist americans seem like an offensive action by the government. that they are somehow robbed of their liberty. i foresee all the moral debates. i bet a lot of americans would feel less safe without knowing they have a gun. when you know that you own a gun, soon as someone say "danger" your immediate reaction might be calmer, the result being that you think more rationally, because you know that if shit really does pop off at least you have your gun or at least you own a gun. owning a gun obviously creates a sense of security. there's so many potential outcomes that i don't even know if i want to say it's a wise choice to ban guns.

arguably, in a country where gun legislations have been of the stricter kind for the past century, the general usage of guns, and gun-related statistics would probably be lower than they are in the u.s. today. america is so big compared to other countries. generally speaking. you produce more, you import/export more, you have more people, you have more guns, more crime, more movie stars, more everything than most countries in the world. no matter what the comparison, i have yet to come over something that can be measured in numbers that justifies the gun violence in the us. there are countries with more inhabitants, an equally large film industry, an equal collection of several different cultures, but none of them see the violence you do in america. i can't help but think it's a fair assumption that something about america, whatever it is, makes america very special. or to speak more accurately, i feel it's a fair assumption that america is a weirdo. so comparing american statistics to uk statistics isn't really entirely accurate.

like am said earlier statistics are pretty much useless. they give you a false illusion of confidence.

(edit: retouched this post like four times, whatever)
 

AmerikazMost

Well-Known Member
#45
the principle upon which the states were based is that of freedom. stricter gun laws could, to the worst of patriotic extemist americans seem like an offensive action by the government. that they are somehow robbed of their liberty. i foresee all the moral debates. i bet a lot of americans would feel less safe without knowing they have a gun. when you know that you own a gun, soon as someone say "danger" your immediate reaction might be calmer, the result being that you think more rationally, because you know that if shit really does pop off at least you have your gun or at least you own a gun. owning a gun obviously creates a sense of security. there's so many potential outcomes that i don't even know if i want to say it's a wise choice to ban guns.
Or your immediate reactoin is to pull the gun out, escalating the situation, and creating even more danger and potential for the loss of life than there was before.

The worst thing that our forefathers ever did was create the Second Amendment. Now people (not necessarily saying you, Puff :p) think that owning a deadly weapon is actually a natural, unalienable right. It's not. That's not why the amendment was put into place, and it pisses me off that people think that way :fury:
 

PuffnScruff

Well-Known Member
#46
owning a gun or firearm is a choice and law abiding citizens should be able to make that choice. AM you can say that it was a bad thing that the founders of our country created the 2nd amendment and that is your opinion and your right, which i respect. but i would disagree.

if a person goes into a gas station to rob place and has a gun, and the person behind the counter is not armed, that person puts a fear into the worker of that gas statoin. a fear that they may die and will be begging for their life. but if that worker is armed they will not have that fear and will know that they can take action against the criminal and more times than not when that criminal sees the person they are trying to rob has a firearm or some kind of gun they turn the other way and run out the door. these types of stories are all around. you see it on t.v. with stupid criminal shows. these types of stories happen all the time

when i lived in orlando there was a story about a man, who had concealed weapons license and carried a firearm, who was coming out of a hotel and two teenagers came up from behind him and ordered him to give up his wallet and jewlrey or they would shoot him. one had a real gun one had a pellet gun. the man took out his gun and the two kids ran. these types of stories are all around.

the 2nd amendment was more ment to give power to the people so they wouldn't be scared of their govt. an armed citizen was expected to protect against not only foreign enemies, but also potential tyrannical federal govt. the right to bear arms was intended to ensure that our govt remained in the hands of the people. who do you want to have power in our country? the people, or politicians that think they know whats best for the people when they only want to push their own agendas of what they think is best for the people even if it is not?

take what i said about the criminal with a gun robbing a gas station and the clerk that is unarmed and apply the fear that the criminal puts into the regular unarmed citizen to a bigger picture. take away firearms and rifles from citizens and the govt has more control over our lives and since they would have the firepower they would be able to put the fear into the citizen.

what if one day most of our troops are overseas fighting a war and some country like china decides "Well we already own most of america, they give us their money, and we own the mortgages to many of their homes already. What the hell, lets just take the whole country" and they decide to invade the country. the police can't handle the by themselves and most of the military too far away to do anything, so who would that leave to fight for the country? if the citizens didnt have weapons to fight, then i guess they would be to scared of dying and would just give in. if the citizens did weapons to fight for the country they protect their families and their country.

know am perfectly aware that what i have said is completely hypothetical and people will say "that is unlikely", "that would never happen in this day and age", etc etc, but those same things have been said about other things that have happend in history (9/11). so there is no need to come in and tell me this is completely stupid or that this would never happen
 

PuffnScruff

Well-Known Member
#47
see, this is what i don't get about this whole argument. i don't think i've seen one anti-gun person say guns should be banned, but all the pro-gun people keep talking about is such and such would happen if guns were banned. here's a simple solution: place stricter regulations on purchasing guns. Canada hasn't banned guns, and yet our country isn't full of people shooting each other. we have regulations though, which make it more difficult to purchase a gun. seriously, what would be wrong with that? it wouldn't be infringing on your rights, because no one is saying that you can't own a gun, but there really is no need to make them so easy to purchase.

i have to add that i think it's ridiculous how Americans cling to that second amendment like it still has any real meaning. that amendment was put there because the American government knew that the British were planning a re-invasion of the country. in 1791. well, guess what guys, i think they called off the re-invasion. you can put the guns down now.
mayeb a waiting period again would do some good. but maybe not. look at the brady bill for example. according to the ATF study from '92 only 7% of armed career criminals and 7% of "handgun predators" obtained fireamrs from licensed gun shops. in the 80's and 90's four of every five prison inmates got their guns from friends, family, and black market sources(Bureau of Justice Statistics '01). many police chiefs said that the brady act's waiting perioud did not stop crminals from obtaining guns.

now i realize that it could still save lives but it would be a small dent in the stats. personally i think most of the death related to gun violence can be traced back to some sort of gang related activity. especially black market guns. i would think the fed, state, and local govt should try to do more or new things to prevent or stop gang related activity. what that would be i have no idea other than trying to get at the youth while they are young before they get a taste of the gang life.
 

AmerikazMost

Well-Known Member
#49
owning a gun or firearm is a choice and law abiding citizens should be able to make that choice. AM you can say that it was a bad thing that the founders of our country created the 2nd amendment and that is your opinion and your right, which i respect. but i would disagree.
It's funny how many guns of "law abiding citizens" end up being used in crimes.

If anything, we need tougher restrictions on who owns guns, tougher restrictions what kind of guns they can own, and much more thorough background checks. However, that's only a start, not a solution.

if a person goes into a gas station to rob place and has a gun, and the person behind the counter is not armed, that person puts a fear into the worker of that gas statoin. a fear that they may die and will be begging for their life. but if that worker is armed they will not have that fear and will know that they can take action against the criminal and more times than not when that criminal sees the person they are trying to rob has a firearm or some kind of gun they turn the other way and run out the door. these types of stories are all around. you see it on t.v. with stupid criminal shows. these types of stories happen all the time

when i lived in orlando there was a story about a man, who had concealed weapons license and carried a firearm, who was coming out of a hotel and two teenagers came up from behind him and ordered him to give up his wallet and jewlrey or they would shoot him. one had a real gun one had a pellet gun. the man took out his gun and the two kids ran. these types of stories are all around.
Puff, for every story you give me about a gun saving a life, I can give you dozens more about a gun ending a life.

You want a story? First case I saw when I began my internship was a murder trial. The defendant was occasoinally being harrassed by this other dude he didn't like him because he intervened in a fight between him and his girlfriend. One night, the other guy took out a knife and threatened to kill him, but then walked away. The defendant was later driving down a street and saw this other guy walking with a group of people. The other guy flagged him down, and the defendant, thinking that this guy wouldn't do anything in front of people and just wanted to reconcile, stopped and got out. Sure, he was skeptical, but he took his gun out of his glove capartment and felt safe. The other guy came at him with a knife, and in the struggle, the defendant shot him and killed him (the projection of the bullet made it obvious that this was the case).

So what happened to the defendant? He's doing 6-10 years for voluntary manslaughter. He put himself in a situation he could have reasonably avoided and killed a man. A lot of good that feeling of safety did him.

the 2nd amendment was more ment to give power to the people so they wouldn't be scared of their govt. an armed citizen was expected to protect against not only foreign enemies, but also potential tyrannical federal govt. the right to bear arms was intended to ensure that our govt remained in the hands of the people. who do you want to have power in our country? the people, or politicians that think they know whats best for the people when they only want to push their own agendas of what they think is best for the people even if it is not?
This is the only reasonable argument that has been made yet. The likelihood of that happening with the American government is unlikely though, and the likelihood of the people, armed with handguns and rifles, being able to withstand the American military if it did is even more unlikely.
what if one day most of our troops are overseas fighting a war and some country like china decides "Well we already own most of america, they give us their money, and we own the mortgages to many of their homes already. What the hell, lets just take the whole country" and they decide to invade the country. the police can't handle the by themselves and most of the military too far away to do anything, so who would that leave to fight for the country? if the citizens didnt have weapons to fight, then i guess they would be to scared of dying and would just give in. if the citizens did weapons to fight for the country they protect their families and their country.
That is completely unfeasible. Not that China might try it, but that we wouldn't have the capabilities to defend ourselves if it did. Between the police, the Coast Guard, the reserves, and the military we have at home, it'd be more than enough to withstand any country until we could rally the troops, so to speak.
 

Prize Gotti

Boots N Cats
Staff member
#50
AM, the flaw with your theory on my theory is, you live the USA, what applies in America, does not apply any where else. The rest of the world has a different and more violent mentality than American citizens.

There are alot of people, Europeans mainly (most British) that kill other people for fun and to pass time. Teenagers go round in gangs and stab people who are out on their own, simply because they have nothing better to do. Not only Europe, African coutries, they are so bored that they go round on the back of a pick up and shoot as many rival villagers as possible.

And im pretty certain guns are illegal in Jamaica, look how many people die every day there.
 

AmerikazMost

Well-Known Member
#51
AM, the flaw with your theory on my theory is, you live the USA, what applies in America, does not apply any where else. The rest of the world has a different and more violent mentality than American citizens.

There are alot of people, Europeans mainly (most British) that kill other people for fun and to pass time. Teenagers go round in gangs and stab people who are out on their own, simply because they have nothing better to do. Not only Europe, African coutries, they are so bored that they go round on the back of a pick up and shoot as many rival villagers as possible.

While you were at summer camp, we were taking drugs, robbing people and getting arrested.
LMAO funny.

You were kidding, right?
 

Prize Gotti

Boots N Cats
Staff member
#54
^^ I'm serious, the UK is the most socially fucked up place I can think off. You know that in the UK, when you goto jail, you don't go to jail. why? because there is no room left. so instead you get an electronic tag and have to be at home by 7pm, and you either serve your sentence that way, or you stay on the electric tag until there is a cell available for you.

But hey, its not surprising so many people want to go to prision in the UK. After all, you get your own Xbox and TV, free food, massages, free access to the gym. Its like a package holiday.
 

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