My basic objection against the American death penalty

[Rukas]

In addition, it is the ultimate deterrent. Imprisonment does not deter all offenders from committing crimes... the threat of capital punishment, as the harshest penalty has the ability to deter more potential offenders (and related to recidivism, totally deter convicted criminals).

I know you didnt say if you believed in this or not, I thought I would just reply to this point in general.

I wonder though, is it easier to live with your crime or to die because of it? I mean, when contemplating murder, would one be more likely to do it thinking "I'll have to live with this for the rest of my life, sitting in jail with my guilt," or "I'll do it and it will all be over with soon."

I think, in my opinion at least, living in a cage for the rest of my life would be a bigger deterant than death.

And having said that, if the deterant is the issue, why not introduce torture? Surely living under torture for the rest of your life would be the biggest deterant? Has the point of justice become that of creating a deterant against crime? Should it be?

 

[HitEmUp21]

I wonder though, is it easier to live with your crime or to die because of it? I mean, when contemplating murder, would one be more likely to do it thinking "I'll have to live with this for the rest of my life, sitting in jail with my guilt," or "I'll do it and it will all be over with soon."

Fortunately, I have never been in the situation and hopefully never will be in such a situation where I have committed an act that causes such guilt, but I believe that people in prison do get over their guilt using mental defence mechanisms such as rationalisation and perhaps even repression. In addition to that, I guess that part of the guilt would go away because you are convicted of the crime. It's kind of like you are paying your debt so things are becoming more even (as opposed to getting away with it).

And having said that, if the deterant is the issue, why not introduce torture? Surely living under torture for the rest of your life would be the biggest deterant? Has the point of justice become that of creating a deterant against crime? Should it be?

That's an interesting point, I think deterrence is but one of several reasons for the existence of punishment, but it certainly seems as if it is one of the most important.

On torture, even though human rights is a very contested subject, my ignorance tells me that torture is quite universally denounced. But then I guess why wouldn't murder (referring to capital punishment) be?

Those are just a couple of arguments in the affirmative, which I do not necessarily hold myself but just thought I'd mention.

Thanks, that its effectiveness is inconclusive is very interesting, I wonder if it was shown to be significantly effective if the tide of opinion would change..

 

[Amara]

I know you didnt say if you believed in this or not, I thought I would just reply to this point in general.

I wonder though, is it easier to live with your crime or to die because of it? I mean, when contemplating murder, would one be more likely to do it thinking "I'll have to live with this for the rest of my life, sitting in jail with my guilt," or "I'll do it and it will all be over with soon."

I think, in my opinion at least, living in a cage for the rest of my life would be a bigger deterant than death.

And having said that, if the deterant is the issue, why not introduce torture? Surely living under torture for the rest of your life would be the biggest deterant? Has the point of justice become that of creating a deterant against crime? Should it be?

The belief is that the punishment should fit the crime - that's the notion of justice. Torture, even if it was a good deterrent would be unjust as it violates the understanding of human rights. Besides, imprisonment was probably thought to be a form of torture... thinking about it, it's probably a violation of human rights too. As the death penalty is thought to be also - difference is, the jurisdictions in question deem the state to have the authority to stick it up human rights.

The problem with deterrence though is that only a very fer criminals consider the possibility of being caught... "criminals" by nature cover their tracks... that is why many think there is no deterring potential offenders. They arent gonna think in their psychopathic, emotional, enraged (whatever it might be) state of mind... hmm, let's think... i might go to jail.

But, the thing about deterrence is, it's not only about the offender, it's about protecting society. And that is a major part of what criminal justice is about. Fuck the offender, how can we keep people safe? ... get these criminals away from them... be it locked in a cell (where they have the option of parole and escape etc) or perhaps just rid the world of them (capital punishment). That's how you eliminate recidivism.

 

[goymz]

But on a more philosophical level, I think it's a worse punishment to incarcerate someone for life than it is to give them an easy out.

Precisely. I find it ironic that the death penalty is reserved for the more extreme offenses. Some of these acts verge on evil, but some people want to execute them immediately? Fuck that, let them rot in prison for their remaining years.

I haven't read the rest of the thread so I wont address the issue any further than that.

 

[Amara]

Precisely. I find it ironic that the death penalty is reserved for the more extreme offenses. Some of these acts verge on evil, but some people want to execute them immediately? Fuck that, let them rot in prison for their remaining years.

I haven't read the rest of the thread so I wont address the issue any further than that.

Sometimes its good to read the whole thread. For instance the discussion of the advantages of the death penalty - such as to curb criminal recidivism and provide for ultimate deterrents. But hey if you dont read, you dont learn, which is a shame.

 

[Duke]

On the deterrent thing, it could go both ways:

Let's say i shot a cop in the States. Make that two. Not even intentionally. Im a bank robber on the run, they found me , recognized and pulled. I pulled, lead is exchanged, they end up dead.

Now i know i'll most likely get the death penalty. Will i now give a further fuck about the amount of coppers or people i'll pop?


Extreme example, i admit, but you can see where i'm going with this.


P.S.: I knew this thread would end up in a general death penalty debate

 

[Amara]

Let's say i shot a cop in the States. Make that two. Not even intentionally. Im a bank robber on the run, they found me , recognized and pulled. I pulled, lead is exchanged, they end up dead.

Now i know i'll most likely get the death penalty. Will i now give a further fuck about the amount of coppers or people i'll pop?

The point may be though you will never get the opportunity to spread your terror around society anymore, lol. And that other potential bank robbing, cop shooting bandits will think twice before they enter the bank or pull the trigger.