Lip's are moving but you ain't saying nothin'

#1
Why chattering classes have nothing to say

Amelia Hill, education correspondent
Sunday February 20, 2005
The Observer

The art of conversation is dead but the artistry of chatter is thriving, with Britons overwhelmingly admitting they rarely talk about anything more serious than traffic and television.
According to a survey of more than 2,000 adults, almost two-thirds of us admit to indulging in shallow chit-chat at the expense of weighty dialogue - even though we secretly long for more meaningful exchanges.

'Brits have lost the skill of conversation,' said Ronald Carter, conversation expert and professor of English Language at Nottingham University. 'Considered communication has been the first casualty of our rushed, modern lives.

'We can't exchange thoughts and opinions reflectively when we're in a hurry and so we resort to banal banter,' said Carter, who has published more than 20 books and 100 papers on different aspects of spoken language. 'We have got used to chatter and have stopped making the effort to reach any more significant conversational depth.'

The survey, by Telewest Broadband, found that despite the cultural stereotype, the British weather is no longer regarded as an acceptable topic of small talk. Instead, we prefer talking about last night's TV, office gossip and traffic.

Carter believes that considered opinions are the first casualty of an excess of small talk. 'Too much chatter means we keep our real thoughts to ourselves,' he said. 'We risk becoming rigid and thoughtless in our opinions,' he added.

But Dr Jonathan Miller, the neuroscience researcher, TV presenter and author, disagrees. 'Conversation is not an art and anyway, big conversation bores me,' he said. 'Turn-taking in conversation is the important thing. I'm interested in how people watch each other when they are conversing, how they respond to various topics, rather than what those topics are.'

Lemn Sissay, named as one of the 50 key black British writers, fetes small talk: 'Talking about traffic and patio doors is the Western Buddhist mantra,' he said. It's a way we can find inner peace in today's society. Small talk can give away so much more about people, and be much more fascinating than big talk. I truly respect those who can sit around and discuss patio doors for half an hour and get something out of it.'

The survey also found that more than two -thirds of people believe the telephone is the best way to have intelligent conversations, although Ned Sherrin, presenter of Loose Ends , the Radio 4 comedy show, a lexicographer and author of 20 books, admits hating the telephone. 'I would rather see the contours of their face, the clouds and the flicker of their tears. I find the telephone irritating and unsatisfactory, and like to get them over with as quickly as possible,' he said.


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1418611,00.html
 
#3
Harry_potter said:
'We can't exchange thoughts and opinions reflectively when we're in a hurry and so we resort to banal banter,' said Carter, who has published more than 20 books and 100 papers on different aspects of spoken language. 'We have got used to chatter and have stopped making the effort to reach any more significant conversational depth.'
I'd much rather have an indepth conversation over a meaningless chit chat any day. In fact, I suck when it comes to making small talk. This is why people think I am shy and quiet, but the truth is, I prefer not to speak, unless I feel I have nothing valuable to say.

Lemn Sissay, named as one of the 50 key black British writers, fetes small talk: 'Talking about traffic and patio doors is the Western Buddhist mantra,' he said. It's a way we can find inner peace in today's society. Small talk can give away so much more about people, and be much more fascinating than big talk. I truly respect those who can sit around and discuss patio doors for half an hour and get something out of it.'
Yeah sure, if you are shallow minded and incapable of comprehending the significance and insight afforded by topics other than "patio doors." I think really, what we can take from this survey is that people are becoming increasingly less interested in pondering the larger questions of life...they are happy in their mundane, simple existences and rarely question or seek to understand the greater spheres of life (whether socio-political, economic, scientific...etc). Let them have their small talk, while the rest of us unearth knowledge and contemplate issues of real worth.
 
#4
Amara said:
I'd much rather have an indepth conversation over a meaningless chit chat any day. In fact, I suck when it comes to making small talk. This is why people think I am shy and quiet, but the truth is, I prefer not to speak, unless I feel I have nothing valuable to say.
Same with me, I hate Chit Chat or "Water Cooler Talk" for the most part. Thus people think I am like you shy and quiet or even strange.
I even avoide deep conversations with people some times cause I know my views will come off as radical to them.

I do believe everyone can teach everyone so I sometimes take a interest in what others are interestid in. I also understand what they are saying about how you can learn alot about people from chit chat, I believe that to be true. Not as much as you would learn from a more engageing conversation but you can get a pretty good feel for peoples political,Religious, personal beliefe systems.
 
#5
I wonder if anyone remembers my 'Rwanda & make-up' comment?

Well, substitute traffic for lipstick & I was talking about the situation Harry potter's post presents us with.

I'm going to try & find that post.


Until then, I will say that while Harry potter says he'd avoid deep conversations with some people as he may come off as 'radical', I tend to avoid conversations on serious issues unless I have a lot of time at hand. The way I see it, there is no point starting something that you will not have the time to finish.
 

S O F I

Administrator
Staff member
#7
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
I wonder if anyone remembers my 'Rwanda & make-up' comment?

Well, substitute traffic for lipstick & I was talking about the situation Harry potter's post presents us with.

I'm going to try & find that post.


Until then, I will say that while Harry potter says he'd avoid deep conversations with some people as he may come off as 'radical', I tend to avoid conversations on serious issues unless I have a lot of time at hand. The way I see it, there is no point starting something that you will not have the time to finish.
Well, can you really finish a conversation about a serious issue? The argument could go on forever, especially if you're dealing with a stubborn person. :)
 

S O F I

Administrator
Staff member
#9
Vaudeville said:
wow this is 100% true, people rarely have shit to say, unless you are around long time friends or people with your common interests.
Well, I have long time friends and we mostly don't talk about anything more serious than sports, music, girls, and the classic "shit-talking". It may be our age, but most of my friends would find serious issues and interesting topics you could ponder on, boring and corny. Besides, before I engage myself in more serious issue conversations, I need to read more. :)
 
#10
S O F I S T I K said:
Well, can you really finish a conversation about a serious issue? The argument could go on forever, especially if you're dealing with a stubborn person.
This is true but, given enough time, while you may not resolve your differences on the issue (if you had any at all) you will still come away a better person for having had the covnersation rather than if you never had it.

With little time, 'chatter' is what occurs & this is both meaningless & useless.

Furthermore, regarding the 'argument' aspect of your post, if you are open-minded you cannot, in principle, lose an argument.

If you 'win' - that is, your opponent concedes - then you have exercised your brain & knowledge & taught someone something.

If you 'lose' - that is, you are forced to concede - then you have gained truth & knowledge & it is a very rare occasion where enhancing your knowledge is a bad thing.

It's a win/win, even if the conversation goes on for a long, long time.
 

Sebastian

Well-Known Member
#11
Amara said:
I'd much rather have an indepth conversation over a meaningless chit chat any day. In fact, I suck when it comes to making small talk. This is why people think I am shy and quiet, but the truth is, I prefer not to speak, unless I feel I have nothing valuable to say.
well i dont suck at small-talk.lol...but i feel the same way
 
#12
Amara said:
I'd much rather have an indepth conversation over a meaningless chit chat any day. In fact, I suck when it comes to making small talk. This is why people think I am shy and quiet, but the truth is, I prefer not to speak, unless I feel I have nothing valuable to say.
I'm kinda the same :thumb:
 
#13
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
Until then, I will say that while Harry potter says he'd avoid deep conversations with some people as he may come off as 'radical', I tend to avoid conversations on serious issues unless I have a lot of time at hand. The way I see it, there is no point starting something that you will not have the time to finish.
yeah that is a factor for myself also, I do not have the time to exsplane my thoughts and views in depth usualy so rather then make a few off the cuff remarks that could easly leave them with the wrong impression I just do the typical "How are you today?" or "how about those Bears?"
 
#14
i'm good a stupid small talk if i have to be but at majority of the time i want to have a "real conversation" but the ppl around me often don't want to do that either to goof off or aren't in the mood or have no answers to give cause the simple stuff is easier..how sad.
that was a good title for the thread.
 
#15
Harry_potter said:
Same with me, I hate Chit Chat or "Water Cooler Talk" for the most part. Thus people think I am like you shy and quiet or even strange.
I even avoide deep conversations with people some times cause I know my views will come off as radical to them.

I do believe everyone can teach everyone so I sometimes take a interest in what others are interestid in. I also understand what they are saying about how you can learn alot about people from chit chat, I believe that to be true. Not as much as you would learn from a more engageing conversation but you can get a pretty good feel for peoples political,Religious, personal beliefe systems.
Mind telling us more about the Chamber of Secrets then?
Anyways, I agree with Harry_Potter :thumb:
 
#16
S O F I S T I K said:
Well, I have long time friends and we mostly don't talk about anything more serious than sports, music, girls, and the classic "shit-talking". It may be our age, but most of my friends would find serious issues and interesting topics you could ponder on, boring and corny. Besides, before I engage myself in more serious issue conversations, I need to read more. :)
Yeah there is no escaping the "shit-talking" sometimes, especially with people you know quite well and have exhausted most of the other topics of conversation.... I mean there is only so much nuclear politics my family can handle, before they politely tell me they just don't give a fuck, lol. A lot of my friends find serious issues "boring and corny" as well, so we keep it to discussions about boys or clothes....such a cliche!
 

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
#17
I naturally don't have deep conversations with others, nor is my mind filled with the content of small talk. Isolation made me in its own image. So the deepest conversations are the ones I have with myself. Yet, in the middle of a conversation with myself, I often feel a sudden need to talk to someone else, so, as evening sets, I wander through the streets looking about me, and each person offers me some snippet of experience, each house some novelty, each tree some advice.

My silent walk is one long conversation, and all of us, people, houses, trees, and sky, are one great comradely crowd, elbowing each other with words in the great procession of Fate.
 

S O F I

Administrator
Staff member
#18
CalcuoCuchicheo said:
This is true but, given enough time, while you may not resolve your differences on the issue (if you had any at all) you will still come away a better person for having had the covnersation rather than if you never had it.

With little time, 'chatter' is what occurs & this is both meaningless & useless.

Furthermore, regarding the 'argument' aspect of your post, if you are open-minded you cannot, in principle, lose an argument.

If you 'win' - that is, your opponent concedes - then you have exercised your brain & knowledge & taught someone something.

If you 'lose' - that is, you are forced to concede - then you have gained truth & knowledge & it is a very rare occasion where enhancing your knowledge is a bad thing.

It's a win/win, even if the conversation goes on for a long, long time.
Good point, I agree. However, I wasn't refuting your statement, I was just sort of adding to a specific part of it. I really don't like chit-chat either, however, personally, I can't engage myself in conversations regarding foreign policies or something, because I just don't concern myself enough with it, and I don't read much. But, I still like to talk about more interesting stuff, like our purpose on this planet, and just refuting stupid mottos people have in life, like "Trust Nobody".
 

S O F I

Administrator
Staff member
#19
Amara said:
Yeah there is no escaping the "shit-talking" sometimes, especially with people you know quite well and have exhausted most of the other topics of conversation.... I mean there is only so much nuclear politics my family can handle, before they politely tell me they just don't give a fuck, lol. A lot of my friends find serious issues "boring and corny" as well, so we keep it to discussions about boys or clothes....such a cliche!
Yeah, that's just how it is. I think that hundreds of years ago, people were much more concerned with deep thinking and discussing interesting topics, than just the usual chit-chat, if any. Even if all we engage in now is just pointless small talk about nothing really, there's always message boards like this one. :)

If you ever tried to start a conversation about nuclear politics with me, I'd be like "huh?" lol
 
#20
Ha I used to have theory lessons at college and all we did was talk. I felt like not have having a good nights sleep on a long bus ride with my head dipping.
 

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