Jihad

[jaimie.uk fan]

Can anyone explain the meaning and interpretation of Jihad ?
I do not have a lot of knowledge on Islam and would like to understand what drives people to commit suicide and kill others in the name of religion .

Now i saw in another thread that Jurhum says that " Islam is perfect " and " Islam is never wrong " but surely killing innocent people going about their daily lives should be considered wrong ?

Does Jihad mean attacking and defending against people or religions which attack the Muslim faith ??

If so what is the definition of attacking Islam ?
By embracing their own faith ?

I was under the impression that other religions were looked upon in disdain and hatred by the Muslim faith , am i wrong ?

I also remember someone saying ( a cleric i think ) that the Bombings in the u.k. were justified and the people who died deserved to as they support Tony blair who continues to attack Islam and that by doing nothing to stop him means they are supporting the western way of life which wants to destroy the Islamic way of life .

If this is then the case and these people deserved to die , then shouldnt the British people then attack and kill Muslims living in this country because they support Islam and they did nothing to stop the bombings in London so they should in turn be killed ??

I am very confused by the religion and have been told that 99 per cent of Muslims are peaceful people so i would like a little bit of help understanding what drives a certain percentage to kill and why if their is so much hatred for the western way of life that Muslims can tolerate living in western societys . Please correct me if im wrong on anything i have said above as i would like to be enlightened and convinced why innocent people are being killed and that it is the right thing for Muslims to do .

 

[critikaldesignz]

"Jihad" means struggler or struggle. Any type of Muslim struggler is a Jihad, or Mujahid. This term is often misinterpereted as being your average throat slitting terrorist, but a Muslim who struggles in school is a Jihad, a Muslim who struggles supporting his family is a Jihad. A Muslim who struggles to defend his religion for a holy cause is a Jihad.

 

[jaimie.uk fan]

So when Muslims commit Jihad they commit struggle ?

 

[critikaldesignz]

Yes. For a moral or spiritual or political goal.

 

[jaimie.uk fan]

Yes. For a moral or spiritual or political goal.

I personaly do not see how blowing people up can justify any of the above . Its certinaly not moral and is it spiritual ? and as for political , using religion for politcal gain ?
I realy am struggling to understanding this faith so shall i kill people , where is the line drawn on Jihad then ?? it seems to me it is used as a justification for someones actions and that as Islam is always right it can be considered the right thing to do regardless of the consequences .

 

[critikaldesignz]

Because some Muslims believe Islam is the only true religion and other religions are blasphemous. Therefore going on suicidal rampages not only fights for a good cause (for your religion), but you are also granted eternal peace after your death, that's a double whammy!

 

[Khaled]

jihad litterally eans strugle.
it was first used in a war context by the prophet's nephew Ali bin Abi Taleb to incite civillians to fight back after a barbarian aggression against their settlement.

It is used today to make people believe that they could go to heaven by blowing themselves up and killing civillians. It's just a pretexte used by fundamentalists to say "why it's ok to kill innocents"

 

[critikaldesignz]

Bush going to war has already led to the deaths 30,000 Iraqi civilians since 2003, I can't see why Muslims can't fight back either.

 

[not really ken]

To use fire as a weapon of war is outlawed in shariah, to poison wells is also outlawed in shariah. That rules out chemichal and nuclear weapons as well as bombs.
Weapons of mass destruction are haraam(forbidden).

this came up at the related discussion boxes at teh bottom http://www.streethop.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132246

 

[jaimie.uk fan]

Bush going to war has already led to the deaths 30,000 Iraqi civilians since 2003, I can't see why Muslims can't fight back either.

OK well if thats the case then why shouldnt british non-muslims fight back and slaughter muslims living in our country , can you see that as fair ? plus should we then stop any aid going out to pakistan to help the poor souls out their and then bomb Islamabad , i mean where is the line drawn ?

 

[not really ken]

^substitue the word 'muslims' in critikals post for 'Iraqis'

 

[Baukem]

basicly it means u gonna have to make the world better by trying to convince others that the islam is the right religion.
same the christians did with success in africa and america.

assholes

 

[PuffnScruff]

first off its not fait to say
"Bush going to war has already led to the deaths 30,000 Iraqi civilians since 2003, I can't see why Muslims can't fight back either."

the planning for the iraq war started before bush came into office.

jihad really can have two different meaning. it all depends on how its interpreted and translated. the qur'an had been misinterpreted for ages. but like said above it really means struggle. but when it gets translated into engilsh it gets turned around and turned into "holy war"

 

[Jurhum]

Can anyone explain the meaning and interpretation of Jihad ?

This word has nothing to do with agressive war. All it means is struggle wether spiritualy or defensively.

I do not have a lot of knowledge on Islam and would like to understand what drives people to commit suicide and kill others in the name of religion .

This is more a pyschological issue than a religious one.

Now i saw in another thread that Jurhum says that " Islam is perfect " and " Islam is never wrong " but surely killing innocent people going about their daily lives should be considered wrong ?

Of course it's wrong to kill innocent people. However, how can you associate that with Islam when in it's core concept Islam forbids the killing of innocent people.

Does Jihad mean attacking and defending against people or religions which attack the Muslim faith ??

Attacking aggressively?No. Defending ones land, people, religion and family? Yes.

If so what is the definition of attacking Islam ?
By embracing their own faith ?

False. Islam encourages religious tolerance.

I was under the impression that other religions were looked upon in disdain and hatred by the Muslim faith , am i wrong ?

Very wrong.

I also remember someone saying ( a cleric i think ) that the Bombings in the u.k. were justified and the people who died deserved to as they support Tony blair who continues to attack Islam and that by doing nothing to stop him means they are supporting the western way of life which wants to destroy the Islamic way of life .

First, that's that persons opinion. Second, he doesn't know for sure those people support blair. Third, Muslims might've been victims, also.

I am very confused by the religion and have been told that 99 per cent of Muslims are peaceful people so i would like a little bit of help understanding what drives a certain percentage to kill and why if their is so much hatred for the western way of life that Muslims can tolerate living in western societys . Please correct me if im wrong on anything i have said above as i would like to be enlightened and convinced why innocent people are being killed and that it is the right thing for Muslims to do .

Mostly, these people feed off the hate, bombardment, killing, butchiring of Muslims in Iraq, Palistine and other Muslim areas where the US and Britian are greatly invovled.

 

[jaimie.uk fan]

I want to thank you Jurham for your sensible reply as this subject can get people very aggresive ( me included ) and i would like to ask you firstly what you think of Jihad and the people who encourage the suicide killing and second to question some of your replys -

Of course it's wrong to kill innocent people. However, how can you associate that with Islam when in it's core concept Islam forbids the killing of innocent people.

But dont the people who commit these killings as well as those who support them claim that it is in the name of Allah and for Islam they are doing this , surely this is how people can associate whats going on with Islam .

Attacking aggressively?No. Defending ones land, people, religion and family? Yes.

I do not see how killing people in London is defending their own land , people or whatever and in which case if you refer to Iraq , didnt the ruler commit terrible crimes to its people regardles of their religion ?

False. Islam encourages religious tolerance.

You spelt it out yourself - Tolerance , as if being another religion is wrong and that people who are not followers of Islam should be tolerated , what do you mean by tolerated ?? And should all Muslims be tolerated or not in our country by other religions whose people are being killed , would it be ok to slaughter Muslims in the name of Jesus Christ because Muslims have killed Christians ?

First, that's that persons opinion. Second, he doesn't know for sure those people support blair. Third, Muslims might've been victims, also.

That is this persons opinon , but it is an opinion shared and used by others as the reason to why innocent people should be killed by suicide bombers in our country and others , you are correct at the fact that muslims died but hey thats probably collateral damage to these people .

 

[Jurhum]

I want to thank you Jurham for your sensible reply as this subject can get people very aggresive ( me included ) and i would like to ask you firstly what you think of Jihad and the people who encourage the suicide killing and second to question some of your replys -

Well, I want to thank you for your interest in knowing more about Islam. Second, personally, I do not condone suicide bombing. For one, Islam forbids killing of oneself. Also, suicide bombing kills innocent and non-military personnel.

But dont the people who commit these killings as well as those who support them claim that it is in the name of Allah and for Islam they are doing this , surely this is how people can associate whats going on with Islam .

Well, this is where it gets tricky. These people are using Islam to gain support from the great uneducated Muslims world wide. Also, from Muslims who have a pictured painted by the Wests constant involvement in the Arab and Muslim world.

I do not see how killing people in London is defending their own land , people or whatever and in which case if you refer to Iraq , didnt the ruler commit terrible crimes to its people regardles of their religion ?

That's why I do not agree nor does Islam support such actions committed in its name. These people are trying to instill fear and butcher innocent people because they hate Blair or something. However, they have no evidence that backs up their actions.
Any Muslim who claims killing innocent people is right is definitely going against Islamic teachings.

You spelt it out yourself - Tolerance , as if being another religion is wrong and that people who are not followers of Islam should be tolerated , what do you mean by tolerated ?? And should all Muslims be tolerated or not in our country by other religions whose people are being killed , would it be ok to slaughter Muslims in the name of Jesus Christ because Muslims have killed Christians ?

When I said religious tolerance, I meant religious understanding. Yes, in Islam, other religious have deviated from the true teachings of God. It's a belief, just like Christians belief Muslims are going to hell for the same reason. However, Islam tells Muslims to engage in trade, treaties, and even marry of the people of the book (Christians and Jews).

That is this persons opinion , but it is an opinion shared and used by others as the reason to why innocent people should be killed by suicide bombers in our country and others , you are correct at the fact that Muslims died but hey thats probably collateral damage to these people .

Mostly, this opinion is shared by others is because of political issues. And, some people aren't really educated and others are feeding off the hate and the killing the US is committing in Iraq and in other countries which Muslims make the major part of the population there.

Go give a simple example:

Abu Ghraib

Fatima's Letter

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Mercy-giving. "Say He is God the
One; God the Source [of everything]; Not has He fathered, nor has He been
fathered; nor is anything comparable to Him." [Qur'an, Surat 112
"al-Ikhlas"]

I chose this noble Surah from the Book of God because it has the
greatest impact on me and on all of you and it strikes a particular kind
of awe in the hearts of Believers.

My brother Mujahideen in the path of God! What can I say to you? I say
to you: our wombs have been filled with the children of fornication by
those sons of apes and pigs who raped us. Or I could tell you that they
have defaced our bodies, spit in our faces, and tore up the little copies
of the Qur'an that hung around our necks? God is greatest! Can you not
comprehend our situation? Is it true that you do not know what is
happening to us? We are your sisters. God will be calling you to account
[about this] tomorrow.

By God, we have not passed one night since we have been in prison
without one of the apes and pigs jumping down upon us to rip our bodies
apart with his overweening lust. And we are the ones who had guarded our
virginity out of fear of God. Fear God! Kill us along with them! Destroy
us along with them! Don't leave us here to let them get pleasure from
raping us! It will be an act to ennoble the Throne of Almighty God. Fear
God regarding us! Leave their tanks and aircraft outside. Come at us here
in the prison of Abu Ghurayb.

I am your sister in God (Fatimah). They raped me on one day more than
nine times. Can you comprehend? Imagine one of your sisters being raped.
Why can't you all imagine it, as I am your sister. With me are 13 girls,
all unmarried. All have been raped before the eyes and ears of everyone.

They won't let us pray. They took our clothes and won't let us get
dressed. As I write this letter one of the girls has committed suicide.
She was savagely raped. A soldier hit her on her chest and thigh after
raping her. He subjected her to unbelievable torture. She beat her head
against the wall of the cell until she died, for she couldn't take any
more, even though suicide is forbidden in Islam. But I excuse that girl. I
have hope that God will forgive her, because He is the Most Merciful of
all.

Brothers, I tell you again, fear God! Kill us with them so that we might
be at peace. Help! Help! Help! [Wa Mu'atasima!]

 

[Rukas]

Here are some quotes from The Quran that may explain the situation.

Quran 9: 29 Fight those who do not profess the true faith(Islam) till they pay the polltax (jiziya) with the hand of humility.

Quran 9: 5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them and take them captive, and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush….

Quran 47: 4 When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads….

Quran 2: 191 And slay (kill) them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

 

[jaimie.uk fan]

It is apparent that not all Muslims want to kill people and want to live peacefuly , just like not all white people are racsist killers . Fair enough , so are Non violent muslims trying to stop the killings going on by educating in any way the ( as you say ) uneducated Muslims worldwide that are apparently believing in a true faith - as like you have said
" Islam is perfect " which if this is the case shouldnt they all be peaceful and tolerent like yourself .

I would just like to ask having read the sad quote you gave , what is the source ?? not that i am dis-beliveing it , rather interested in its origin .


Also you mention that Islam condones the killing of ones self but having read Rukas's quotes is quite happy for people to kill others in the name of Islam of those who do not profess the true Faith and of non-believers. Now where is the religious tolerence in those quotes ?

You also point out that people who kill innocent people are going against Islamic teachings , now having read the quotes below surely they are portraying a different message ?

 

[not really ken]

Here are some quotes from The Quran that may explain the situation.

Quran 9: 29 Fight those who do not profess the true faith(Islam) till they pay the polltax (jiziya) with the hand of humility.

in reference to non-muslims living in an Islamic countries, they must pay their taxes or face shariah punishment. Can Islam not have a law?

Quran 9: 5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them and take them captive, and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush….

this was in reference to the meccans who had besieged the muslims and were terrorising them during the month of ramadan. The muslims didn't retaliate and for days feared attack and were in great distress. Then after ramadan had passed they defended themselves with routine war activity.

Quran 47: 4 When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads….

how about posting the rest of the verse,
QURAN 47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance).
yes it says that when in war situation strike them down (or be killed ). and when the wa is over try to be diplomatic with them. What would you tell your soldiers faced in a war of kill or be killed?

Quran 2: 191 And slay (kill) them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

lets have a look at the rest of the verse:

Quran 2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them.

this verse refers to the people who were persecuting the muslims and they were told (in laymans terms) dont live on your knees rather die on your feet. And then it is enforced that you must only attack in defence.

 

[Rukas]

^^ I dont need to defend anything because I am not arguing a point.

I posted passages from the Quran that certain Muslim's point to in defense of, and as reason to, conduct terrorist attacks.

Im not saying anything either way, just providing the passages, I pose no opinion on them and didnt use them as proof, so theres no reason to try to counter an argument I didnt make ken.

The fact is some Muslim's use those as reasons to conduct terrorism, its irrelevent to argue the meaning of those passages with me, you should be arguing it with them!