Technology iPhone OS 4 event April 8th

S. Fourteen · Apr 13, 2010

^ Jeez, you sure like to ignore the information presented to you, don't ya?

Re-read this thread and you'll realize that Flash is unnecessary on the iPhone platform. Why do you insist on ignoring that information?

I have ClickToFlash on Safari which blocks out all the unnecessary Flash content on the web. Those Flash content causes my browser, both Safari and Chrome, to crash from time to time. The only time I need to 'click' on the Flash is when I go to YouTube or other video sites or interactive content like play-by-play baseball information - all of those contents can be provided on the iPhone/iPad without Flash.

How thick is your skull?

The problem that lazy developers have with Flash being blocked by Apple is that they can no longer write an App and cross-compile them. Now they have to use the language that Apple asks them to use and you should know by reading this thread that Apple likes to have control of what goes inside their machines to make them stable for better user experience.

masta247 · Apr 13, 2010

You gotta be kidding me. I just said that flash is basically everywhere and that's something you tend to ignore. You might have apps for some of the most viewed sites that use flash but it won't replace it on most websites. You won't be able to play flash animations/games/videos either and most of them on the web are made in flash.

S. Fourteen · Apr 13, 2010

-Users on the iPhone platform is hardly effected by not having Flash. So your assessment of 'making users life harder' is not a correct one. iPhone DOES NOT NEED FLASH BECAUSE IT PLAYS SHIT FINE WITHOUT IT.

-If you're talking about users on a desktop, then you are totally wrong again because Flash is the cause of my browsing difficulties. Blocking Flash makes the browsing smooth as butter using less CPU power.

It doesn't matter how much of the internet is Flash - It's not hurting the user like you say it is, only the feelings of Adobe employees and Flash dependent developers are hurt by it. Majority of PCs have Internet Explorer on them - that doesn't mean that I should be using it.

Here's the kicker, and forgive me for repeating myself time and time again but - I know that Flash is everywhere, I CHOOSE TO IGNORE FLASH by means of ClickToFlash because it's better that way.

masta247 · Apr 13, 2010

LOL. There's just no logic there. Flash is a format bringing you a specific content. Actually a wide variety of content.
Basically your logic looks like: "okay I'll uninstall all my games because when I play them they tend to slow down my PC"! Or "I don't need an mp3 codec because it slows down my computer, mp3 quality is meh and I'd rather not listen to music at all/listen only in AAC from Itunes or whatever other less popular format".
We can argue on how good or bad flash is for what it is (I think that it's not bad apart from its price) but right now I'm talking about the fact how popular and widespread it is and how many things you can't do without it (or could possibly do but in a "not so nice" way).

Personally I know flash, I like it and I know that it's the best tool by now for many, many things related especially with animation.

and PS. My PC doesn't crash - I did have my laptop turned on since about a month or so and I played thousands of flash apps probably without even realizing.
That was until I installed Itunes to check that piece of shit out. Coincidence?

Casey · Apr 13, 2010

Agreed, if we're talking stability, and what slows down CPU, I'll take Flash ANYDAY over that piece of fucking retarded shit iTunes. Oh look, let's make everyone install our garbage ass proprietary lame QuickTime format too just to use it.

Fuck iTunes and fuck QuickTime. They both suck horrendously and are very badly coded. There's really no reason for anyone to use them.

S. Fourteen · Apr 13, 2010

Casey Rain said:

The difference is, as you know, you can delete your iTune and look else where. We can't alter the content of web sites, and as long as people like masta continue to defend the crapware, then it's going to be hard to get something better.

Yahoo the app loads instantly

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8391/yahoodesk.jpg

YouTube video is displayed in H624

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9420/youtubedesk.jpg

S. Fourteen · Apr 13, 2010

Amazon
An advertisement in the lower right is missing. whoopie doo

The panning animation is done without Flash. Flash is not the only thing capable of producing animation.

Gizmodo

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2940/gizmododesk.jpg

S. Fourteen · Apr 13, 2010

GameSpot

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3306/gamespotdesk.jpg

IMDB

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/6673/imdbdesk.jpg

Disney

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8639/disneydesk.jpg

S. Fourteen · Apr 13, 2010

IGN

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1108/igndesk.jpg

Seekingalpha

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/4708/alphadesk.jpg

Imageshack look closer, there's an app for that

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5962/imageshackdesk.jpg

The only thing making my life hard is trying to get you to understand.

masta247 · Apr 13, 2010

Great, you just gave me examples of websites that actually look good without Flash and probably are optimized for mobile devices. You should put Streethop there too. Wow it works without Flash! How awesome! There are maybe even some occasional simple animations that are made WITHOUT FLASH! WOW!

What if you'd actually like to see a page that USES flash and there's no other way? What if you'll actually want to watch a flash animation, a video online or other things flash is best at right now. Or browse a site that is full of Flash and has no flash-free mobile version? Play a flash game (most popular online browser-based games are made in flash).
The world doesn't circulate around just some of the biggest websites but I guess it's very hard to understand that there are shitloads of sites that need flash at the moment. While I agree this might not be as significant in Iphones as people don't use them as often to surf serious web but in Ipad? Flash is one of those technologies I could picture myself using the most on a tablet. Lack of it would be a deal breaker to me - be it a tablet from Apple, Google or any other company.
Like all Apple fanboys you're very good at resisting logical arguments and obvious things. Is this really hard to understand that lack of support for a significant technology is a bad thing? And that it's definitely not good like you seem to make it to be?

Casey · Apr 13, 2010

masta247 said:

Well said.

The problem, s14, is that you are only speaking for yourself when you list off a whole bunch of your favorite sites that don't use much flash, or have mobile versions.

Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the rest of us, the internet doesn't revolve around what you like.

All of HTC's Android devices that use the Sense UI, support Flash. And I know a lot of people that have bought them over iPhones because of that fact. They don't want a crippled user experience with gaping holes in it.

Masta's right - phones are not a massive deal if they have flash or not. But there's no fucking way in hell I'd buy a tablet device - devices DESIGNED for browsing, if they did not support flash.

And Steve Jobs claiming the maxIpad is great for browsing when it doesn't support one of the most popular technologies in the entire internet is straight up lying (something he does often).

S. Fourteen · Apr 13, 2010

Some are mobile versions, some aren't. There's nothing wrong with optimization especially when the page loads faster on my phone than it does on my desktop.

I've never run into that problem -- I have explained to you how apps work, I have explained to you how things can be done without Flash, so please don't tell me how my experience is by saying things like 'making life harder for users' and 'I see the power of marketing'.

50,000 games in the app store.

Adobe CS is expensive, even for some professionals. But you're expecting small firms to empty their wallets for bloated software? Why? What happened to 'all about openness' ?

You know Flash, yes, but you don't know what you're talking about. iPad runs iPhone OS. IF it's not a big deal on iPhones then it's not a big deal on iPads. Go take a look at those apps again. Go take a look at optimized websites. Consider the iPads speed and how they do it.

Are you a Flash fanboy? It's a significant technology that I can live without and never miss. The end.

Casey · Apr 13, 2010

S. Fourteen said:

You don't have any grounds for calling someone else a fanboy when YOU are the one compromising your ability to access the internet, solely to support a company that you have an emotional attachment to.

S. Fourteen · Apr 13, 2010

Nothing is compromised and that was a question, not a statement.

Flash Sucks - I’m Mike
http://www.highrankings.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2012
Flash Sucks!
FLASH SUCKS
Why Flash Sucks : Blagophilia
Why Flash sucks | kdedevelopers.org
Flash Sucks - 67% People Agree (5,833 opinions)

Perhaps they are not aware of alternatives.

S. Fourteen · Apr 13, 2010

Post up these sites I'm missing out on. I'll email the webmaster and ask to create a friendlier version.

S. Fourteen · Apr 14, 2010

As you can see from the earlier 'flash sucks' links, this is a decade old problem. Adobe keeps promising better performance for Macs but it continues to suck. The lack of innovation or optimization can be attributed to their dominance and people who think it's a must have best tool that one can't live without. The chief technical officer of Adobe himself admits that
it's 'the same code running in Flash for each operating system' and you wonder why Apple doesn't want that kind of lazy process repeated for mobile apps. Again, this is a business decision as well as a technical one

Apple’s refusal to support Flash on the iPhone–and soon the iPad as well–might not be a death knell for Flash, but it will surely hasten its decline, if Adobe isn’t careful.

Certainly, the fact that the iPhone’s lack of Flash hasn’t really hurt it suggests that Flash may not be quite as important for the Web as Adobe (ADBE) would like us all to think. And now, with some new video players ably demonstrating the promise of HTML5–like this one–the company is clearly worried about Apple’s (AAPL) unflagging exclusion of Flash and CEO Steve Jobs’s recent, and quite vicious, dismissal of it.

So much so that Adobe is publicly promising to improve Flash’s performance on Mac systems. In comments appended to a blog post about the iPad’s lack of Flash support, Adobe CTO Kevin Lynch said his company is working to improve Flash performance on the Mac.

“Flash Player on Windows has historically been faster than the Mac, and it is for the most part the same code running in Flash for each operating system,” he wrote. “We have and continue to invest significant effort to make Mac OS optimizations to close this gap, and Apple has been helpful in working with us on this.”

Elaborating, Lynch catalogs progress to date. “Vector graphics rendering in Flash Player 10 now runs almost exactly the same in terms of CPU usage across Mac and Windows, which is due to this work. In Flash Player 10.1 we are moving to CoreAnimation, which will further reduce CPU usage and we believe will get us to the point where Mac will be faster than Windows for graphics rendering….With Flash Player 10.1, we are optimizing video rendering further on the Mac and expect to reduce CPU usage by half, bringing Mac and Windows closer to parity for video.”

Welcome news. But enough to prompt Apple to suddenly reverse course and begin supporting Flash on its mobile devices? That seems unlikely. Apple’s repudiation of Flash on the iPhone and iPad seems–to me, anyway–quite a bit like its repudiation of floppy drives in the first iMacs. It’s a move that inevitably generates great controversy and criticism, but ultimately proves to be ahead of its time.

Adobe: Working to Make Flash Better on Apple Macs | John Paczkowski | Digital Daily | AllThingsD

masta247 · Apr 14, 2010

Perhaps that's the whole point - Adobe doesn't give a fuck about Apple and that's the only reason?

S. Fourteen said:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100127221208AA9aWIQ
http://thenextweb.com/apple/2010/04/06/10-suck-ipad/
http://elliottback.com/wp/apples-ipad-tablet-sucks/
http://amplicate.com/sucks/ipad

and thousands other similar results here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=pl&lr=&safe=off&rlz=1G1GGLQ_PLPL302&q=ipad+sucks&start=10&sa=N

Your Flash hate-links mean nothing.

S. Fourteen said:

A pretty random list:

http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/best-flash-sites
http://www.flashapps.com.au/
http://www.flashearth.com/
http://www.farmville.com/
http://www.flashgames247.com/
http://www.imaginationcubed.com/index.php
http://www.floorplanner.com/demo
http://www.demomode.es/home.html
http://www.picnik.com/
http://www.airtightinteractive.com/projects/related_tag_browser/app/

oh and probably 99% of porn sites on the web.

And if you don't have flash right now here are pictures of some nice flash websites you're also missing on:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/06/07/50-beautiful-flash-websites/
Pretty sad that you won't be able to see those on your tablet, isn't it?

S. Fourteen · Apr 14, 2010

Now, take a look at what the iPad can do without Flash.

S. Fourteen · Apr 14, 2010

Majority of those sites are self promotion done by graphic design firms. I see that Nvidia is promoting their products using Flash animation. The last but not least is the promotion of milk consumption using 'eye-candy' and a shitty game. Casey, are you going to let them do that?

I noticed the 247 on the cluttered flash game site... do you own that or is that a coincidence?

Casey · Apr 14, 2010

Nothing is compromised? You've got hundreds of thousands of website with massive gaping holes when viewing them on your iPad. You claim yourself it's a "significant technology", and that you CAN live without it. You shouldn't have to, and with any company other than Apple you wouldn't.

Your fanboyism for Apple has led you to compromise your ability to access the internet. That isn't up for debate - that's a fact, whether you admit it or not, and no matter how big or small of a deal it is for you.

Fanboyism is the only reason anyone buys an iPad, because they aren't the best tablet devices on the market. By a long shot. Another fact.

Technology iPhone OS 4 event April 8th

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