Gun Control

[Jokerman]

Aye. Most people that own guns are responsible with them. But even if 90% is, 10% isn't.

I'd just rather not take the risk, y'know.

So you'd rather millions of ppl who succesfully defend themselves each year using guns die so that the relatively few who die from gun accidents or irresponsible use live? O-K. Good trade-off.

The sad fact is that some people shouldn't have guns. Or cars. Or children. Or oxygen. That's the way it is.

 

[Jokerman]

But whichever way you look at it, a gun has one use and one use only. To kill.

That's right. When sportsmen shoot at a target on a range and compete, they're trying to kill something. When I stop a burgler or someone from raping by holding them at gunpoint, I must be perverting the real use of a gun, which is to kill.

But somewhere there is a line where an object becomes somehow "too dangerous". And guns are on the bad side of that line..

I know, one gun chased me around the house with a knife once.

Stop fearing inanimate objects!

Let me put it like this: In a fight, be it with your spouse, a mugger, your best friend or Santa, it's just too easy to grab that 9 from upstairs and shoot someone in a fit of rage.

In the case of the mugger, I hope so.

Me to mugger- "Hold on while I go inside and run upstairs to get my gun. Come in and make yourself at home while you wait."

Having a gun doesn't make a normal angry person consider murder anymore than if they didn't have a gun.

While every place has their gun enthusiasts, you won't see businesswomen going to the firing range here. There (the US), they do.

You also won't see said businesswomen successfully defending themselves from rape and murder as much either.

We've debated this issue many times, Duke. Even though you've given a little here and there, your thinking is still mixed up and sloppy on this issue. The lack of precision in how you put your arguments show this. I think that like many ppl who are unfamiliar with guns, haven't handled or shot them, they just scar u shitless. And that's your real issue. You will avoid and deny the statistics showing the opposite of what you say because your opinion is formed from fear, and not facts.

Like the time thread, you get to a point in your thinking and then get stubborn in your beliefs. "This is how I want to think about it. Don't bother me with good arguments and facts."

 

[Jokerman]

Would you better achieve the same sense of equality and safety and lack of desire to step out of line if there were absolutely no guns, a policy rigorously enforced?

No, because criminals will still exist and either get guns, despite the most rigorous enforcement (we have to deal with reality), or they will use other weapons, and there won't be a deterrence from unarmed honest folk.

Everyone being armed is not about deterring good ppl from stepping out of line or everyone respecting everyone else. It's about deterring bad people.

Crime is a function of people's choices to disregard laws and harm others, not of the availability of guns. Haven't the anti-gunners noticed that their laws have failed to reduce crime every single time they were tried, and that expanding self-defense rights has reduced crime? Will they ever? Not if they have an irrational fear of guns.

 

[Duke]

That's right. When sportsmen shoot at a target on a range and compete, they're trying to kill something. When I stop a burgler or someone from raping by holding them at gunpoint, I must be perverting the real use of a gun, which is to kill.

I know, one gun chased me around the house with a knife once.

Stop fearing inanimate objects!

In the case of the mugger, I hope so.

Me to mugger- "Hold on while I go inside and run upstairs to get my gun. Come in and make yourself at home while you wait."

Having a gun doesn't make a normal angry person consider murder anymore than if they didn't have a gun.


You also won't see said businesswomen successfully defending themselves from rape and murder as much either.

We've debated this issue many times, Duke. Even though you've given a little here and there, your thinking is still mixed up and sloppy on this issue. The lack of precision in how you put your arguments show this. I think that like many ppl who are unfamiliar with guns, haven't handled or shot them, they just scar u shitless. And that's your real issue. You will avoid and deny the statistics showing the opposite of what you say because your opinion is formed from fear, and not facts.

Like the time thread, you get to a point in your thinking and then get stubborn in your beliefs. "This is how I want to think about it. Don't bother me with good arguments and facts."

Of course my thinking is sloppy when it doesn't match your own views. Great way to debate, champ. Very clever also how you choose to ignore some of my points by making phunni's but choose to answer others.

I really don't feel like debating about this subject again. We know each other's views. You are adamant guns save lives and are a good thing, I say it's stupid to give the people firearms because people are stupid. And I'm also positive that it's something in American culture that makes you crave guns. The feeling you need guns to have a safe society. Armed society is a polite society? Armed society is a Cold War society. And therefore I'm thankful I don't live in Yeehaw America but over here.

 

[Jokerman]

And therefore I'm thankful I don't live in Yeehaw America but over here.

And i'm thankful I live in a place where my woman will have a fighting chance in a bad situation.

 

[PuffnScruff]

Yeehaw america? So all of america is southern? Jokermans right about you duke. You are scared.

 

[Duke]

Seriously....if you can't see through that one sarcastic remark...

 

[PuffnScruff]

dukes perception of america is what his eyes has seen in fictional movies

 

[Jokerman]

Jokermans right about you duke. You are Dutch.

:thumb:

 

[Duke]

dukes perception of america is what his eyes has seen in fictional movies

Not really.

 

[Sebastian]

I really don't feel like debating about this subject again. We know each other's views. You are adamant guns save lives and are a good thing, I say it's stupid to give the people firearms because people are stupid. And I'm also positive that it's something in American culture that makes you crave guns. The feeling you need guns to have a safe society. Armed society is a polite society? Armed society is a Cold War society. And therefore I'm thankful I don't live in Yeehaw America but over here.

I, as a fellow european friend, agree with his point of view.

Fuck America

 

[S. Fourteen]

that's it. WORLD WAR version 3.1bf5. You Euros against salty, Puff and Jokerman. Bring plenty of ammo Jokerman. It's on! Die!

Man, this remind me of the time when I was 11 and wanted a bb gun in the worst way. Maybe some people don't grow out it. Guns are heavier, more expensive, more dangerous toy for adults. Some people develop a slight obsession over guns like one of my friends. Sometimes, when he brings his gun out for a show and tell, I feel like I'm watching a 9 year old showing me his lego set. His girlfriend asks him why he has to have multiple guns. He needs to justify his slight obession by telling her that somebody could come into his house one night or they could get robbed while out and about. That could happen to me too so why do I feel fine without a gun? Because I'm not thinking hard enough? Maybe I'm not paranoid. Myabe I have better toys to play with. Maybe I grew out of bb guns. But wait, is it guns? He carries a knife on his belt and shows me a "good way" to pull it out quickly and slice somebody. Then he goes on about bulletproofing his car.. SHUT THE FUCK UP. WHO ARE YOU? A NOBODY, SO GO SPEND YOUR MONEY AT EXPRESS FOR MEN. The glamorization of gun violence in the media is a part of it for him too I'm sure. He's a paranoid, emotionally unstable person and that is the reason why I'm worried about him owning a gun. Combine the immaturity, paranoia, emotinal problems and guns - fun!

I'm not trying to attack anybody in this thread for owning a gun. Everyone is different. I know a gun collector who is responsible. I have no worries about him and I'm sure there are plenty of gun owners like him.