George Bush is DONKEY , AN ALCOHOLIC, A CHILDREN KILLER

The.Menace

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#41
look, war is hell, and human rights violations are a part of war, like it or not. whether war is the imposition of sanctions, a military watchdog presence, or a war such as iraq, when you have people fighting you will have atrocity.
Listen, first of all you went there to bring peace, not to violate human rights, but ok - let's call it a war. If this is a war and human rights violations are part of war (means are supposed 2 be accepted) then don't blame NOONE THAT FLIES A FUCKIN PLANE IN A BUILDING. Don't trip if someone blows himself up in NYC or LA downtown, cause that's then just part of the war too. You can't say others have to accept this shit cause it's a war and then not see the other side of the story, if it's your "right" 2 ignore human pride and human rights, then it's ok for them to do the same.
 

Taliq

On Probation: Please report any break in the guide
#43
The.Menace said:
Listen, first of all you went there to bring peace, not to violate human rights, but ok - let's call it a war. If this is a war and human rights violations are part of war (means are supposed 2 be accepted) then don't blame NOONE THAT FLIES A FUCKIN PLANE IN A BUILDING. Don't trip if someone blows himself up in NYC or LA downtown, cause that's then just part of the war too. You can't say others have to accept this shit cause it's a war and then not see the other side of the story, if it's your "right" 2 ignore human pride and human rights, then it's ok for them to do the same.
You seriously hit the nail on the head. Maybe not on the topic of thread but in general terms. If war and percieved threat can be an excuse for one party to invade countries, it can be an excuse for another party to fly planes into buildings and blow people up. I'm not saying I agree with it though, becuase I think they're both retarded.
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#44
PuffnScruff said:
i missed your point.

i'm not saying you cant say what you want. you can. but for every action there is a reaction. whats going to happen if you yell fire in a crowded movie theater.
just because the secret service investigates you for making a death threat against a public official does not mean you are not free to say what you want. your not going to be murdered by the govt for saying it.

you guys make it sound like just because it's their job to investigate death threats against the officials they are protecting that you are not free too say what you want

In short, my balls shrivel to the size of pennies when I hear about the "bastion of democracy" seizing computers or arresting people when they "threaten" the president.

The whole notion that a self respecting terrorist would actually alert the secret service of their intentions is even funnier.

Now, as the United States, there is a reputation to uphold. A reputation of justice, democracy yaddi ya, the lot. You guys are the biggest and most fair democracy of them all, right? Leader of the free world and all that.

So that's why my balls shrivel when the secret service is on the jock of students that made a reference to Bush being a fucking dickwipe. That's why my balls shrivel when i hear a bunch of Brits have been in Guantanamo Bay for 3 years, no lawyers, no trials, not even real accusations, just insinuations and at the end of the day, they didn't even have anything to do with terrorism. Not to mention the hundreds of other people in there. The remarkable ease with which the government has allowed itself to spy on the regular people. On the me's and you's. Not on the Osama's and Mohammad Atta's, they've been spying on them for decades on end. No, on you and me, on the normal people. It sickens me.

And getting back to where this started, if I go out on the street with protest signs saying Bush is a fucking moron and needs his ass kicked and then having the secret service coming in and breaking my balls, i would definately say that this is not the freedom of speech i had come to expect from the "leader of the free world" and as such, I can not say whatever i want to say.
 

PuffnScruff

Well-Known Member
#45
wow where to begin on that. do you believe everything that comes out of the new york times, the same new york times whose stock is down the shitter with the paper itself(wonder why, couldnt be because they are full of shit most of the time could it), the same paper that lost all credibility when nearly 2 dozens of their reporters admitted to making up stories(and those are just the ones who had the balls to admit too it)
there has never been any solid evidence that this administration is spying on oridinary LAW ABIDING citizens. LAD ABIDING being the key words there. the govt was listening in on calls COMING INTO the country from sources believed to be connected to terrorist. not listening to my conversations with my parents.
that new york times article had many half truths in it just like the majority of their articles they put out and it gets ate up by most of the other MSM that is hurting for RATINGS. shitty journalism at its finest.

who has ever got ruffed up by the secret service for protesting? are you just pulling this out of your arse?

name one form of law enforcement that does not investigate death threats? even local small town law enforcement will do that. if one guy threatens to kill his neighbor , and the neighbor calls the police do you think they shouldnt investigate? that its ok for him to threaten the other person because he is expressing his free speech?
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#46
PuffnScruff said:
wow where to begin on that. do you believe everything that comes out of the new york times, the same new york times whose stock is down the shitter with the paper itself(wonder why, couldnt be because they are full of shit most of the time could it), the same paper that lost all credibility when nearly 2 dozens of their reporters admitted to making up stories(and those are just the ones who had the balls to admit too it)
there has never been any solid evidence that this administration is spying on oridinary LAW ABIDING citizens. LAD ABIDING being the key words there. the govt was listening in on calls COMING INTO the country from sources believed to be connected to terrorist. not listening to my conversations with my parents.
that new york times article had many half truths in it just like the majority of their articles they put out and it gets ate up by most of the other MSM that is hurting for RATINGS. shitty journalism at its finest.

who has ever got ruffed up by the secret service for protesting? are you just pulling this out of your arse?

name one form of law enforcement that does not investigate death threats? even local small town law enforcement will do that. if one guy threatens to kill his neighbor , and the neighbor calls the police do you think they shouldnt investigate? that its ok for him to threaten the other person because he is expressing his free speech?
No, I don't read the NY Times. Actually, I don't read any US papers, i prefer my objective European outlets.

Aristotle said:
Just cus it doesnt happen on our soil doesnt mean it isnt happening somewhere else, like some prison facilities we know of. Actually my phone was tapped, only cus my friend was talking to a drug dealer and they thought I might know something but they came and apologized first hand. But whatever, I never received a copy of the warrant yet so I'm still kind of pissed but whatever. The US is doing what they feel they need to do to keep scarin us about terrorism and stop it, big deal. It's not as bad as people are saying but if people don't start saying shit now will they ever.
How about this? Not connected to terrorism, ok, but a prime example of what i mean.


I would like to see the bastion of democracy and justice doing something productive instead of calling the air force when there's a wasp in your garden. They're probably indeed not listening to your parents' conversations, but they could on a whim, and that's what scares me.

This is Big Brother, phase 1. Believe it or not. And yes, the Secret Service will be on your jockstrap if you "threaten" bush like that, never mind the fact you're nowhere near a terrorist. They will tap phones and they will take you to Guantanamo.

And who's there to stop them? No one. Absolutely no one. Do you see what i'm getting at? You think it won't happen to you but it can.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168976,00.html

Revealed: the full story of the Guantanamo Britons

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Observer's David Rose hears the Tipton Three give a harrowing account of their captivity in Cuba[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Sunday March 14, 2004
The Observer


[/FONT]
Three British prisoners released last week from Guantanamo Bay have revealed the full extent of British government involvement in the American detention camp condemned by law lords and the Court of Appeal as a 'legal black hole'.
Shafiq Rasul, Ruhal Ahmed and Asif Iqbal, the so-called 'Tipton Three', speaking for the first time since their release at a secret location in southern England, have disclosed to The Observer the fullest picture yet of life inside the camp on Cuba where America continues to hold 650 detainees.
After more than 200 interrogation sessions each, with the CIA, FBI, Defence Intelligence Agency, MI5 and MI6, America has been forced to admit its claims that the three were terrorists who supported al-Qaeda had no foundation.
But fearful of reprisals - the extreme right wing BNP has a stronghold in their hometown of Tipton in the West Midlands, and their families have warned them they may not be safe back at home - they all declined to be photographed, and are choosing a new location in which to rebuild their lives.
During an extraordinary 12-hour interview with The Observer last Friday, two days after their release from Paddington Green police station where they were held after being flown home from Cuba, the three men revealed that they were interrogated by MI5 almost immediately after first arriving at Guantanamo Bay - in the cases of Iqbal and Rasul, on 15 January 2002, and in Ahmed's case three weeks later.
The British Government has repeatedly claimed it has been trying to use diplomatic pressure to introduce more legal process at Guantanamo, including an opportunity for detainees to show that imprisonment is unjustified.
But the picture painted by the three released prisoners is of a Security Service which saw them as mere 'interrogation fodder', and questioned them repeatedly throughout their 26-month stay.
Among other disclosures, the three men revealed:
· How early in their ordeal they survived a massacre perpetrated by Afghanistan's Northern Alliance troops who herded hundreds of prisoners into lorry containers and locked them in, so that people started to suffocate. Iqbal described how only 20 of 300 prisoners in each container lived, and then only because someone made holes in its side with a machine gun - an action which killed yet more prisoners;
· The existence of a secret super-maximum security facility outside the main part of Guantanamo's Camp Delta known as Camp Echo, where prisoners are held in tiny cells in solitary confinement 24-hours a day, with a military police officer permanently stationed outside each cell door. The handful of inmates of Camp Echo include two of the four remaining British detainees, Moazzem Begg and Feroz Abbasi, and the Australian, David Hicks;
· That they endured three months of solitary confinement in Camp Delta's isolation block last summer after they were wrongly identified by the Americans as having been pictured in a video tape of a meeting in Afghanistan between Osama bin Laden and the leader of the 11 September hijackers Mohamed Atta. Ignoring their protests that they were in Britain at the time, the Americans interrogated them so relentlessly that eventually all three falsely confessed. They were finally saved - at least on this occasion - by MI5, which came up with documentary evidence to show they had not left the UK;
· That their first interrogations by British investigators - from both MI5 and the SAS - took place in December 2001 and January 2002 when they were still being held at a detention camp in Afghanistan. Guns were held to their heads during their questioning in Afghanistan by American soldiers, and physical abuse and beatings were rife. At this point, after weeks of near starvation as prisoners of the Northern Alliance, all three men were close to death.
The Court of Appeal criticised the absence of any legal due process at Guantanamo as a 'legal black hole' in a case brought on behalf of Abbasi last year, while the laws lord, Lord Steyn, has described the camp in a speech as a 'monstrous failure of justice'.
In public, the British Attorney General Lord Goldsmith has spoken of his constant pressure on America to improve both physical and legal conditions, urging them not to deny terror suspects a fair trial.
But the released prisoners told The Observer how MI5 interrogators, in sessions lasting many hours, tried repeatedly to extract information they did not have about Islamic groups in Britain and their supposed links with al-Qaeda.
Ahmed described an interrogation session which took place before he left Afghanistan by an officer of MI5 and another official who said he was from the Foreign Office: 'All the time I was kneeling with a guy standing on the backs of my legs and another holding a gun to my head.
'The MI5 says: "I'm from the UK, I'm from MI5, I've got some questions for you," he told me: "We've got your name, we've got your passport, we know you've been funded by an extremist group and we know you've been to this mosque in Birmingham. We've got photos of you."' In fact, none of these claims was true.
The three men said that as far as they could see, there were few if any genuine terrorists at Guantanamo Bay: perhaps at worst, a few mullahs who had been loyal to the Taliban.
They voiced grave fears for the future of Begg and Abbasi, who are due to face trials by American military commissions, saying that their own experience of the Guantanamo interrogation and intelligence gathering process was 'almost a recipe' for other miscarriages of justice.
Last night, a Foreign Office spokesman said he could not comment on the men's claims to have been interrogated by British officials while they were still in Afghanistan, saying he could not get access to the relevant files. Whitehall security sources confirmed that MI5 has had regular access to prisoners at Guantanamo Bay: 'I can say that the purpose of our being given access to detainees in US custody is to gather information relevant to British national security,' said one source.

Boy am i glad the US is looking out to protect my freedom by robbing others of theirs.

And don't even get my started on the hilarious hypocrisy of having those Northern Alliance buddies.

Bush probably doesn't even know where Geneva is.
 
#47
Common, the truth is we are all led by liars who feed us fear and trump the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Rule of Law. We've gotten what we've allowed them to take in the elections. We dismissed discrepancies in the elections of both 2000 and 2004 and wonder how we've reached the place we're at. I never thought I'd see the day that the supreme court selected our president; but that was just the beginning of our dismissiveness when it comes to politicians.

When Bush was inaugurated I never thought he could do much damage - how wrong was I. Had a short discussion about the 'energy' meetings with a republican who felt it was fine for them to remain secret - being simplistic I pointed out that if it was wrong for the 'healthcare' meetings of clinton, it was wrong for the energy meetings of bush. Wrong for one; wrong for all (stupid concept I guess).

As the country has allowed the bush/cheney/rice/ rumsfeld and our so-called 'liberal' (even the NY Times) media to push and promote the war, using fear of wmd, mushroom clouds, gassing his people, yellowcake, etc. All intelligent/reasonable efforts made to fully outline/prepare for the outcome of the overthrow were dismissed. We were too frightened to be patriots to the Constitution and hold the politicians to any level of honesty and/or integrity. We are still kept in the fear loop, preferred by bush and the media, to avoid real discussion of our reasons for being there.

For those with a mind for history; the Revolutionary War was started by citizens on this continent - it was not imposed on us from outside. Who can think that the Iraqis (though likely thrilled to be free of saddam) wanted the US staying longer than it took to pull down his statue. We cannot impose puppets on the Iraqis, we can't keep claiming they can't do without us, we need to quit thinking we can solve the issues over there. More and more, our soldiers and the continuing occupation is exacerbating the melt down.

As an occupying force, the US performed dismally with insufficient soldiers in place to keep the peace; billions going to security over infrastructure and improving the lives of the Iraqis and continuing interference in their political and economic processes. I found information that early on (very early on) a recommendation was made to reinstate Iraq's constitution and eliminate saddam's contributions. This was considered unacceptable by the administration -one reason I think it was considered unacceptable was that the original Iraq constitution FORBID foreign ownership of Iraq's resources.

Having become pessimistic about the bush administration, I can imagine their horror at the thought of taking out saddam and NOT having access to the oil resources in Iraq. The Iraqi people did not want the US to remain; they wanted their country back much earlier than bush wanted to give it back. Now the US is losing incredible soldiers as bush/cheney/rice and rumsfeld continue trying to frighten us with how bad it would be without us there.

The rationale for going in was shown as fantasy shortly after the fall of the statue and the credibility of this country has suffered from the failures of truth, honesty and integrity of the administration.
 

TecK NeeX

On Probation: Please report break in guidelines to
#49
Too much to read but did anyone mention the 10, 12 and 13 year boys that were released after over 2 years of captivity in Guantanamo?
 
#50
I think there is one quote from a Founding Father that Americans today should learn and understand.

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Ben Franklin
 
#52
i dont know where to start cant belive any brain on this board really takes bush serious no matter what he say he get u away from the truth and all this human rights shit. wealthist country in the world DEATH ROW whats this. im a german so i know about hitler and all this shit. i think the actual america started where hitler ends. america got jails in the whole world for POLITICAL or RELIGION enemies. you aint realize yet how bush is fucking america for manny centuries, like hitler with the german, the baddest things he do you cant knowing yet. Use your brain or watch FOX. bush is no children killer he puts money into spiritless people to kill whos in his way. STOP BELIEVING THAT U CAN SPARK DEMOCRACY, cuz u aint living in real democracy
 

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