Dutch seek ban on burqas in public

[Jokerman]

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) -- The Dutch government, facing re-election next week, said Friday it plans to draw up legislation "as soon as possible" banning the head-to-toe garment known as burqas and other clothing that covers the entire face in public places.

The announcement puts the Netherlands, once considered one of Europe's most welcoming nations for immigrants and asylum seekers, at the forefront of a general European hardening of attitudes toward Muslim minorities.

"The Cabinet finds it undesirable that face-covering clothing -- including the burqa -- is worn in public places for reasons of public order, security and protection of citizens," Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk said in a statement.

"From a security standpoint, people should always be recognizable and from the standpoint of integration, we think people should be able to communicate with one another," Verdonk told national broadcaster NOS

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/11/17/dutch.burkas.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Sure to cause trouble. Your thoughts.

btw, anyone here from Nederland?

 

[S O F I]

Do they have evidence that these burqas disrupt public order, security, and protection of citizens? I think not.

 

[not really ken]

I'd like to see the crime statistics of yobs in hoodies and women in buqas !

 

[Illuminattile]

Well, I suppose the idea behind this is the same as the banning of hoodies here in the UK, and I guess if people aren't allowed to wear hoodies that obscure their face then Muslims shouldn't be allowed to wear burqas either.

 

[Jokerman]

They banned hoodies in the UK? Wow. But one concerns religious expression and hoodies don't.

 

[Illuminattile]

They banned hoodies in the UK? Wow. But one concerns religious expression and hoodies don't.

They banned them in shopping centres I think. Because it made it hard to identify shoplifters or trouble-makers.

As far as religious expression is concerned, there's a limit. If religious expression clashes with a countries laws, then the latter wins. You can't make exceptions for people because they hold irrational religious beliefs. I said the same thing when we were talking about the Sikhs and whether they should be allowed to carry a kirpan in schools.

 

[Glockmatic]

From what I've heard from muslims on this board, burkahs aren't even a muslim thing its a cultural thing, so why are muslims mad about this? Also I just saw a report on TV saying that people from afghanistan that wear burkahs are actually vitamin d deficient, so it could be a health concern aswell.

 

[Jokerman]

people from afghanistan that wear burkahs are actually vitamin d deficient, so it could be a health concern as well.

lol give them a vitamin

 

[Glockmatic]

costs a lot for the fabric to make a burkha, not enough money for vitamins!

 

[TecK NeeX]

From what I've heard from muslims on this board, burkahs aren't even a muslim thing its a cultural thing, so why are muslims mad about this?

No they are not, Hijabs are though, the ones that cover just the hair.

 

[not really ken]

They banned them in shopping centres I think. Because it made it hard to identify shoplifters or trouble-makers.

I'd like to see the crime statistics of yobs in hoodies and women in burqas !

Burqas are a threat to people why? Some people should be more considerate in their use of one, but how do they hinder?

 

[Illuminattile]

Burqas are a threat to people why? Some people should be more considerate in their use of one, but how do they hinder?

If burqas obscure the wearer's face, then it makes it hard to identify someone. If hoodies are banned in shopping centres for the same reason, why shouldn't burqas be? Saying "people in burqas don't shoplift, so we'll let them cover their faces" is like saying "Catholic priests don't murder people, so we'll let them walk around with guns and machetes".

"From a security standpoint, people should always be recognizable and from the standpoint of integration, we think people should be able to communicate with one another"
I don't necessarily agree with the latter.

 

[Shahin]

If burqas obscure the wearer's face, then it makes it hard to identify someone. If hoodies are banned in shopping centres for the same reason, why shouldn't burqas be? Saying "people in burqas don't shoplift, so we'll let them cover their faces" is like saying "Catholic priests don't murder people, so we'll let them walk around with guns and machetes".

"From a security standpoint, people should always be recognizable and from the standpoint of integration, we think people should be able to communicate with one another"
I don't necessarily agree with the latter.

Banning them in shopping malls is one thing, since there's valid reason for that. Just flat out banning them is much different though. I'd be very bothered if this happened in my country.

 

[Jokerman]

"The Muslim community estimates that only about 50 women in the Netherlands wear the head-to-toe burqa or the niqab, a face veil that conceals everything but the eyes."

 

[salman88]

From what I've heard from muslims on this board, burkahs aren't even a muslim thing its a cultural thing, so why are muslims mad about this? Also I just saw a report on TV saying that people from afghanistan that wear burkahs are actually vitamin d deficient, so it could be a health concern aswell.

thats bs, it is a religious thing, the people who say that are ashamed even though it is one of the most noble, and humble aspects of Islam. The reason they are ashamed is obviously because how it is looked down upon in this day and age, the fact that girls are not trying to sell themselves and have men look at them in a sexual way...the netherlands can band it on paper, but the woman who sincerely wear it and arent getting forced into it by their hardheaded spouses, will never stop wearing it because it they are doing it for a much more noble cause than a stupid legislature, and they are not trying to please lawmakers, but they are trying to please God.

I guess girls can go on tv and on the streets dressing with basically nothing on and showing off their body, only to gain looks by men seeing them as nothing more than objects, but girls who choose to cover themselves fully are getting banned from doing so...go figure

 

[Jokerman]

^Yeah! Girls can walk around the streets half naked terrorizing men with their bodies but 50 modest women not bothering anyone in the Netherlands must strip naked for the pleasure of the pseudo males they have over there. What's next a ban on mummys?

 

[Illuminattile]

I guess girls can go on tv and on the streets dressing with basically nothing on and showing off their body, only to gain looks by men seeing them as nothing more than objects, but girls who choose to cover themselves fully are getting banned from doing so...go figure

So you don't think there's a valid reason to ban burqas, from a security/identification perspective?

What's next a ban on mummys?

Well if the ban on burqas is about security and being able to identify people, I don't think it would spread to mummies. Even if they did remove the bandages around their face, I doubt the police would recognise them or having their picture on their database. I suppose it might help to tell whether there's was one mummy loose or a whole gang of them.

 

[salman88]

So you don't think there's a valid reason to ban burqas, from a security/identification

no illuminati i obviously dont think theres a valid reason, you have to realize that some of these women are doing it sincerely for God as i already have mentioned. Their reaction should be self explanatory, they wont give it up for a man made law which is minor (due to the fact that its not implemented anywhere else), the belief they have in God and the faith they have far outweighs their fears of consequences in this life, for they are focused on the next. Now, there are some women who are not doing it for God as i have also mentioned already, they are probably doing it for different reasons ie. their husbands force them, their friends are doing it, or what not.
sorry if i havent answered the q earlier, i thought i had but i guess it was indirect. If u have any specific q's plz ask, cuz i would love to explain the perspective of these most modest women who arent harming anyone.

 

[Duke]

The burkha ban is pretty silly. I could understand it coming from a standpoint of "no towels around your head while in a public function" or something similar, but this is basically the government telling people what to wear. And that's silly.

Note it's not just about the burkha, though. Goes for every face covering thingy.

But I regard it as one of the last seizures of a right wing conservatist cabinet before the elections tomorrow.

 

[salman88]

"no towels around your head while in a public function"

their not towels, they are garments or scarves if u will. same thing nuns wear in christianity, same purpose too, modesty and being humble. if calling them "towels" was a joke, then i hope im not the first to inform you that its not a joking matter