Drugs

Bender · Mar 23, 2005

Your views?

Is your concept of drugs mainly positive or nagative? Reasons please...

Regardless of whether they are Legal or not; a drug is something that changes the way the body works, and they effect it in a veriety of ways. Some we know well, others... well lets just say mankind would benefit from more knowledge on this subject.

IMO it is not drugs that are evil, but rather the effects of misuse, and peoples ignorance on the subject.

One thing that bothers me is that people are saying THC causes mental illness - such has been said in the news - and find this to be complete load of bullshit. Yeah it may affect the brain but that's what it does, by induction of introspection. For the people who are classed as mentally ill from the effects of THC is not from THC, but rather from over-indulgence and a lack of understanding for the effects.

Another thing that pisses me off when someone slanders another because they know the other has indulged in use of controlled substances. And then they go home take a few paracetemol and a cup of coffe. I think some people need to ask themselves 'what is a drug?' No one on here I'm sure.

Silleone · Mar 23, 2005

i obviosuly dont mind the ones that save lives but the illegal ones such as cocaine and shit need to stay illegal, infact i am against most drugs that cause u not to be incontrol of yourself.

another thing, i cant stand those people that say "i do it to escape reality", as soon as the high wares of your gonna be back in reality anyway so whats the point.

not really ken · Mar 23, 2005

Define Drugs?
The whole affect of the drug can chage with miniscule chages to its composition. But anyway, I know what you mean.

Drugs are bad!!! WHY?
First off they cost money, your wasting money on an addiction which is a temporary solution to your problems and makes you feel worse when youcoke back down from the high.
Also drugs can takeover your life and become a priority. meaning that you will steal and abuse the trust of your closest people in order to get a hit. you will lie and cheat people in order to get a hit if it ever comes to that (which is highly likely).

thats enough for now. let others add

MX Red · Mar 23, 2005

If one was to look back to the alcohol prohibition laws in America in the 1920's and look at the amount of criminality that thrived in America in those times directly from prohibition, it is fair to say that the same thing has happened with drug prohibition...just on a world scale...which has only made the problem worse.

As Einstein said "the prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the laws of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this [prohibition]"

Einstein made the point - drug prohibition cannot be achived, not only do illict markets make a lot of money for those who deal in them which makes it irresistable for some and impossible to stop, people throughout history have taken drugs - and always will, no matter what the law says.

By the UN's own admition the war on drugs is failing - in its report 'Global Illicit Drug Trends 2003' 15% of countries reported decrease in use, while 85 had reported the same level of use or more.

One cannot take a moral view on drugs, the reality should forbid it - it is all well and good to say one hates drugs; but it simply wont solve the problem...and the solution that comes from that assesment of the situation (prohibition) causes most of the problems: -
-Turning otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals - simply for using drugs.
-By making them illigal, as the market absorbes risk, including the costs of avoiding enforcment, wholesale drug prices inflate by as much as 2000% (Home Office, Custom and Excise) - thus making the cost of drugs huge, and causing crime such as shoplifting, which simply wouldnt happen if it was government controlled.
-The quality of the drug probebly kills more people than the drug itself (this is especially true for such things as coke, heroin, phet and ecstacy), this is pointless and counterproductive.
-The money we spend on prohibition is not value for money-in the UK we spend £1026 million on drug policy - I have no problem what so ever getting my weed and pils each week, and have never been arrested or even questioned by a police officer.

If one looks at the Swiss governments 1994 initiative of Heroin Maintenance, in which the Swiss government in a nation-wide trial provided a sample of it’s heroin addicts with basically free heroin (a cost of 10 Swiss francs was asked on a weekly basis) with surprisingly liberal restrictions on users (the users were allowed to select their own dosage of heroin, and were able to inject three times a day). The reduction in all problems releated to drugs (especially mental health as it happens) should serve as as lesson for the whole world.

Also look at Spain and Italy - possession of any drug for personal use isnt illigal at all...they arnt raving druggies (but whats shocking is America and the UK are).

What ever your outlook on drugs, the truth is prohibition doesnt work and causes more net harm than legalisation...prohibition has failed on its own terms, we need a new solution or we will suffer the same.
peace
MX!

not really ken · Mar 23, 2005

good post MX. Also I get really pissed of when people use the argument you put forward and say "well, should be also legalise murder then" :rolleyes

MX Red · Mar 23, 2005

By the way Einstein comment was in relation to alcohol prohibition in the 1920's^^^^
peace
MX!

not really ken · Mar 23, 2005

MX Red said:

yeah I know. But when ever you mention the fact that maybe prohibition of hard drugs is not working and at the same time funding criminality to a massive scale. lets legalise it and control it properly. they say "well using that logic, should we legalise murder as well"

MX Red · Mar 23, 2005

I dissagree, there are two different types of crime mala prohibita (wrong because they are illegal) and mala in se (evil in themselves), drugs are a grey area in this and could fall into either one...murder on the other hand isnt!

Plus no good would come from legalising murder, no benifit - If people come out and say that in response to my post, its obvious they dont understand what im trying to say...i am most certanly not putting forward a dentological argument!

this is an issue of Social Policy, not social morality!
peace
MX!

AmerikazMost · Mar 23, 2005

Obviously I'm OK with the medical drugs. As for the recreational drugs.. if you can't control yourself with them, then you shouldn't be using them. I mean if you'd become addicted, would die, o rwould put yourself in a position that could hurt yourself or others. This is the gray area for marijuana. Personally, I never did it, but if you can use it without endangering someone, then go for it. View it the same way as beer and alcohol.

kman_69 · Mar 23, 2005

i've tried pretty much every drug ONCE.

and out of all of them, id have to say the only one that was benefitial to me was MDMA....it opened my mind to so many thing, i was able to understand much more about the universe than before, and i wrote poetry that i ordinarily wouldnt have written.... i also reached a state of happiness that i've never known before...with really no side effects.

oh yeah, and it made the Beastie Boys concert the best concert ive EVER been to lol (they were dope tho!)

Luv4Pac4Ever · Mar 23, 2005

Not really sure myself. On one hand, I think marijuana should be legal because it doesn't have the kinds of effects as other drugs like cocaine, crack, meth, etc. I don't know of anyone that would lie, cheat and steal to get weed like your common crackhead does. Maybe that's just me, but I don't see anyone doing that just to get weed. I've never seen anyone wig out from being high off of weed but I sure as hell have seen em do it on coke. Most of the crack addicts will do anything to get that fix but most weed heads I know just act all hyper until they get that blunt, they don't go out and rob anybody or sell everything they own to get it.
They say people get addicted to crack because you never get the same high as you do the first time you do it and they keep doing it trying to get that high again and it doesn't happen. I guess that's true but I haven't asked any crackheads so I don't know lol Anybody know if that's the case? I haven't tried any kind of drugs although I smoke weed every now and again, usually just on Friday nights when I go out, so I don't know a whole lot about the effects of them or the reason for getting addicted to them. I don't smoke alot so I'm not addicted to weed and I never will be. It's not something I can't live without. If I don't go out, I don't smoke and it doesn't bother me to not have it. And I lived what I guess you could call a sheltered life of sorts because I never knew anything about any kind of drug, including weed until I was 20 years old. Never seen it, never knew anything about it. And I never even tried smoking weed until I was like 25 and the first couple times I tried it, it made me physically sick so I never tried it again til just a few years ago. I know, I sound like a Ms Goody-goody but I'm not really, I just never hung around with that type of people until I got out on my own. Now I'm mostly around alot of black people, as far as work and clubbing and stuff and you know a brother be smoking some weed lol

Kosen · Mar 24, 2005

No drug should be legalized except for those soley used for medicinal purposes. The legalization of drugs will slow productivity, which will subsequently slow the economy. Moreover, it will eventually become counter-productive with crime and such. An example of a society that was destroyed by drugs is China during the Qing dynasty. Opium was not legal, but it had become so ubiqutious in chinese society that it wouldnt be uncommon for 1/3 of the population near sea ports to be stoned out of their minds.

MX Red · Mar 24, 2005

^^^

I dissagree if u look at the dutch experience with opium, from 1910-1940 the Dutch government become the sole seller of opium in the country - it monopolised the market. Without the privet sellers trying to push the stuff the rate of use went down dramatically with van Luijk, Minister of Social Affairs in Holland at the time of a report made into the Opium trade between those times calling it a 'great success' compared to todays drug prohibition regime.

The point im making is - when drugs are prohibited, like in China in those times - that is what happens, its an illicit market - again look at American alcohol prohibition and the number of alcohol related deaths in those times compared to when its legal, same for crime rate, violence ect ect Contolled use of anything is better than uncontrolled. No doubt that drugs cause missery to a few (addicts), but one has to ask: does the net effect of prohibition cause more problems than solutions. The Dutch opium regime and prohibition in its current form would suggest it causes more problems.

Plus there is another element to this debate; people have to accept that there is such a thing as responsible drug taking, where no one is remortly hurt or damaged - it is simply for fun - if u look to the extreem of anything u can find the worst of it - what if i was trying to ban alcohol baseing my argument soley on Alcoholics, with no mention of the millions who drink responsibly - Dont think it would work.

My point isnt that drugs should be legal because we have a natural right to use drugs - but rather because the prohibition of drugs is causing a dam sight more missery than if drugs were legal.
peace
MX!

Bender · Mar 27, 2005

Silleone said:

Ah... the illegal/legal concept. No surprise. I think if we knew more about certain drugs (illegal ones for example) then there would be better ways to regulate them, rather than label them 'illegal'.

Why do Artists come out with some amazing creative stuff when they be a user of 'hard' drugs? This is the one area science has no good explanation or understanding. How can a 'bad' drug bring out some unique creativity?

Do you smoke Silleone? I feel the people who say they do it to escape reality are like a smoker who has a cigarette when he gets stressed.

not_really_ken said:

What has money got to do with anything? I could say that money is just as bad as drugs, if not worse. As for them being a solution - check out my comment on smokers above.

People lie anyways, drugs or no drugs. And why? = Money and Power. See how Money can be compared to drugs, and where the evil fits in? As for stealing, there are far more worse things that are stole that aren't material- like respect, etiquette.

People who use drugs are concerned more about their feeling than material possessions. People who get stole from by the people who use drugs are more concerned with their possessions than others feelings!

MX Red said:

Exactly!! The illegal concept doesn't work, that's why I say we need to know more about the illegal drugs before we can erradicate the problems we see with those who misuse them and fall victim to addiction/crime etc through drugs.

AmerikazMost said:

As long as you don't over-indulge then there is no reason to be calling the use of drugs 'bad'. Just like drinking too much is bad for you. I think everone has this concept that 'illegal' drugs are 'bad' full stop, and IMO this is shallow.

Kman_69 said:

Herin lies the benefit of drug usage! A side of drugs that is misunderstood, except for those that use it. How ironic... It's only those that don't use them or never have, who make judgements on those that use drugs, their effects and how they should be used.
It's good to experiment (sometimes).

Luv4Pac4Ever said:

Again the legal/illegal concept. As MX Red explained 'prohibition doesn't work'.
Moderation is good if you can control your use. The people who abuse cannabis too much, as with any drug, are more likely to experience problems in later life.

Kosen said:

This is totally one sided. So you suggest that Alcohol be made illegal? Cigarettes?

MX_Red said:

Free da weed!

The.Menace · Mar 27, 2005

I pretty much agree with MX. Isn't it my personal freedom to get high? If I sit here in my room and smoke some shit, why should that be illegal?
Still I don't think every drug should be illegal like Heroin is just wrong and I'm not a crack or cocaine fan - I'm down for the natural shit.

Anyway, I htink if we talk about legalisation we all most of the time talk about weed. That's the thing, I don't think too much other drugs should be legal. There are a couple of good points why we should make weed legal. First of all, we can't stop it anyway. Please. In any country you can get weed. Worldwide. If you know where to get it (and you'll know in your hometown) it's not a big thing, therefor the society of prohibition already failed. But thing a lil further. Where does the money that I spend on drugs go to? Right, it goes to criminals and the mafia. Do I want to support criminals? Nope I don't but I have no choice. So If weed would be legal we would in fact save money. First of all we'd save money because the police can take care about more important things then someone smokin a blunt, so basicaly we wouldn't have to spend so much money on the "war on drugs" or concentrate those men on harder drugs which would lead to more success. On the other hand, if I'd buy my weed from shops run and controlled by the state - my money would go directly to the community instead to the criminals. I'd love that and everyone else I asked feels the same way. Take the money I spend for drugs and give it to the poor so they can eat, really I'd enjoy smokin even more. I don't want criminals to buy guns with my money, but prohibition doesn't give me a choice.

Kosen · Mar 27, 2005

So are you saying the legalization of opium in china would have prevented heavy drug use by the chinese?

Heroin is derived from opium. How does one exercise self control against a drug that has been proven to be both psylogically and physilgoically addicting?

Pacaveli-T · Mar 27, 2005

depends on what drugs I mostly don't like them in general and I am not a fan of those who do.....the ones I was friends with I eventually lost contact with and I'm just not into that for personal reasons and not to offend people but I also tend to stay away from those who do for other personal reasons....

Glockmatic · Mar 27, 2005

natural drugs, like weed, should be legal. Synthetic drugs should still be illegal.

Zero Cool · Mar 27, 2005

Cannabis should be legalized but anything stronger I'd have trouble with.

MX Red · Mar 29, 2005

Kosen said:

It would have prevented market forces from spreding the drug at such a fast rate. But no it wouldnt have stopped people using opium, people have always used drugs - all through history. That is a part of the argument...people have always used drugs, the idea that u can iradicate drug use from society is crazy.

Kosen said:

U cant, addiction is a mojor problem with heroin. But how does a street drug dealer make a better supplier than the government - the dealer has only one thing in mind, at least the government has many concerns.

If you take the example of the Swiss experiment of Platzspitz park – dubbed ‘needle park' by the Western media. A park in the city of Zurich were the local council allowed local heroin addicts to sell and consume drugs in a safe environment where needle exchange programs, methadone dispensing units, and a variety of other social services were provided until its demise in January 1992, to the Swiss governments 1994 initiative of Heroin Maintenance, in which the Swiss government in a nation-wide trial provided a sample of it’s heroin addicts with basically free heroin (a cost of 10 Swiss francs was asked on a weekly basis) with surprisingly liberal restrictions on users (the users were allowed to select their own dosage of heroin, and were able to inject three times a day). The difference in results from a government controlled program and to all intents and purposes, drug free for all program are astounding.

Controlled markets for drugs is much less harmfull than uncontrolled markets - ruled by cartells who use the markets for huge profits.

My argument isnt based along ones natural right to use drugs as people in here have been saying - to me that is quite beside the point. The current regime of prohibition is doing an awfull lot more damge than its legalisation, thus we have to look at alternatives. I agree that drugs cause huge damage to the person consuming them and the family - no one is denying that - but i cant see the point of making it worse.
peace
MX!

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