Drug Smuggling & the death penalty

[Amara]

I don't know how much it has made the international news, but there have been a couple of cases recently about Australians being charged with drug trafficking in Indonesia. The first of which, that of Schapelle Corby, who is currently pleading against the death penalty. And today 9 Australians were charged. The penalty is death by firing squad or life imprisonment.

Just wondering if people have any thoughts on the harshness of these proposed penalties? One of the issues that these are Australian citizens who should be able to return to fulfil sentences here. Can we respect the Indonesian system even though it contradicts ours? Do you think people deserve to be executed for drug offences?

AT least eight Australians have been arrested in Bali over a 10.9kg heroin haul.

Bali's Anti-drug squad director Bambang Sugiarto said the group was in custody after a tip off helped officers break up what he described as a drug syndicate.

He said nine Australians had been detained, but the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) earlier said only eight Australians had been arrested for attempting to smuggle drugs out of Bali. "We consider them one group working together as a syndicate," Sugiarto told AAP.
Sugiarto said the police operation, sparked by a tip off, had netted 10.9kg of heroin.


He said that was the gross weight of the haul. It was not known how pure the drug was.

Drug smuggling attracts the death penalty in Indonesia.

"This is a result of work by our intelligence officers in cooperation with anti-drug officers based at the airport," Sugiarto said.

The police operation ended early this morning.

Earlier, a DFAT spokeswoman said its information was that eight Australians had been arrested – five at Bali's Denpasar airport and three later at their hotel.

"We're aware that eight Australians – seven males and a female – have been detained for attempting to export a quantity of drugs," the DFAT spokeswoman said.

"The quantity and type of drugs will be determined by chemical analysis."

The DFAT spokeswoman said officers from the Australian consulate in Bali would seek access to the Australians, and would offer them consular assistance. Foreign Minister Alexander Downer will comment on the arrests in Canberra this afternoon.

PRIME Minister John Howard says he feels for accused drug trafficker Schapelle Corby, who collapsed in a Bali court today.

Denpasar District Court had expected to hear today if prosecutors wanted Ms Corby to get the death penalty if convicted of smuggling 4.1kg of marijuana into Bali last October.


The 27-year-old former beauty student from the Gold Coast arrived at the court handcuffed to an Indonesian female prisoner and fainted shortly after in the court.

"I feel for anybody who is under the sort of stress she is under," Mr Howard told Sky News.

He hoped Ms Corby was treated fairly and decently, and Australia had to have faith in the Indonesian justice system, he said.

"I don't know the circumstances of it (the case), that is a matter for the courts, I am not in possession of all the facts," Mr Howard said.

"I just hope justice is done and she's treated fairly and decently and we have to have faith in the Indonesian justice system because that is the system that is trying her."

Australia had made its opposition to the death penalty clear, and said it was "desirable" offenders convicted overseas served out their sentences in their home countries, Mr Howard said.

"We have made our position in relation to the death penalty clear generally speaking and that applies in all cases whether it is Indonesia or any other country.

"As far as serving sentences are concerned, well, it is desirable that people serve out sentences in their home countries where possible and that would apply generally as well as in particular cases."

Although there was understandably a lot of interest in the Corby case, Australians must respect the processes of the Indonesian justice system, Mr Howard said. "I don't think Australians would appreciate running commentaries from foreign leaders on court cases involving the nationals of their countries in the trials that have taken place here," he said.

www.news.com.au

 

[killahill187um]

it depends on many things

 

[Illuminattile]

I'm not sure whether I'm pro or anti capital punishment, but I do think the death penalty is harsh in this case. As to whether they should be allowed to stand trial in Australia...they did break the law in Indonesia, by bringing drugs into the country. If the Indonesian government wants to cut down on drugs coming into the country, then surely they need to punish those bringing the drugs in?

Let's imagine people were smuggling drugs into your country and this was having a serious effect on you and your community. If the penalty for smuggling drugs in the country they came from was nothing more than a fine, would you be happy with them being sent back there for trial? Wouldn't this undermine your own justice system?

If a group was caught bringing drugs into the country.

it depends on many things

Then why don't you tell us exactly what these 'things' are and how 'it' depends on them?

 

[Amara]

^ nah they'll be standing trial in Indonesia, but the government is advocating to allow Corby, at least, to serve prison time in Australia rather than face the death penalty.

Another interesting thing about her case is it is being funded by an Aus. business man (the media hype has been huge) and the latest is, he may have compromised the case by suggesting the prosecution tried to bribe the defence. Last thing that is gonna help is accusations of corruption, lol.

So that's kind of where its complicated, on the one hand we have to observe the law of Indonesia, but on the other, their notion of justice is at odds with ours. Indonesia is touchy about its legal system and Australia's role - as relations are strained as it is.

The thing I would question is whether drugs offences are really deserving of the death penalty.... the heroin charge against the 9 or so people implicated in a smuggling ring - ok, that's one thing. But as for Schapelle Corby, it was merely marjuana (arguably a less harmful drug, albeit a large quantity of it), possibly planted in her bags....

And isn't a firing squad a bit much in this day and age, I mean that to me brings up images of war or something, not the criminal justice system....

 

[Sebastian]

The thing I would question is whether drugs offences are really deserving of the death penalty.... the heroin charge against the 9 or so people implicated in a smuggling ring - ok, that's one thing. But as for Schapelle Corby, it was merely marjuana (arguably a less harmful drug, albeit a large quantity of it), possibly planted in her bags....

And isn't a firing squad a bit much in this day and age, I mean that to me brings up images of war or something, not the criminal justice system....

in my opinion: no!

but on the other hand i feel no pitty for them. see, if u take drugs (which i think is dumb) then at least be that smart and catch up on what the law in other countries says about taking/smuggling drugs and what you have to fear if you get caught.

there is a saying in german which goes something like "nescience doesnt protect you from punishment"...and i think it fits to this case even though, like i said before, i think death penalty is exaggerated

 

[makadon]

No it is wrong to sentence somone to death for a Non-Violent crime.

 

[Illuminattile]

No it is wrong to sentence somone to death for a Non-Violent crime.

Why do you feel that the death penalty is only right for violent crimes? And would you not consider plying people with a drug which has a good chance of killing them violent? Isn't bringing deadly, illegal drugs into a country worse than, say, a "violent crime" like minor assault?

 

[makadon]

no it's not the same as raping a woman torturing her and then killing her. Please refrane from comparing "drug trafficKing", to sexually molesting children and murduring them etc.

The Death Penalty In America is reserved for Violent Crimes. I dont know about your county. But I doubt it is any different.

 

[killahill187um]

Then why don't you tell us exactly what these 'things' are and how 'it' depends on them?

One I can think about it is lets say that someone sells drugs to kids.

 

[The.Menace]

Do you think people deserve to be executed for drug offences?

no, but you have to respect other counrties so........ what could you do. Not much I guess.

 

[Illuminattile]

no it's not the same as raping a woman torturing her and then killing her. Please refrane from comparing "drug trafficKing", to sexually molesting children and murduring them etc.

I didn't compare drug trafficking to anything.

The Death Penalty In America is reserved for Violent Crimes. I dont know about your county. But I doubt it is any different.

Firstly, no it's not. Treason is also punishable by death in certain jurisdictions, as are perjury, aircraft hijacking, capital narcotics conspiracy, espionage and large scale drug trafficking.
Secondly, we don't have the death penalty in the UK. Not for any crime.

Anyway, I was asking why you felt violence was the only crime "worthy" of being punishable by death.

 

[The.Menace]

Secondly, we don't have the death penalty in the UK. Not for any crime.

In Europe, basically no country has the death penalty no more, but u know how it is, Americans don't know much about abroad.

 

[makadon]

why you felt violence was the only crime "worthy" of being punishable by death.

I fell that way because some types of violent criminals can not be rehabilitated and obviously can not be put back into society. On the other hand drug offenders commit drug crimes for other reasons obviously. Those types can be rehabilitated.

 

[Amara]

there is a saying in german which goes something like "nescience doesnt not protect you from punishment"...and i think it fits to this case even though, like i said before, i think death penalty is exaggerated

Yeah, it's a maxim in law: "ignorance is no defence." This is where I know I'd be thinking the risks far outweigh the gains.

 

[Amara]

One I can think about it is lets say that someone sells drugs to kids.

That's arguably important in regards to heroin, but what about the other case, export of marijuana - we all love marijuana, do we wanna put someone to death over it?

 

[killahill187um]

That's arguably important in regards to heroin, but what about the other case, export of marijuana - we all love marijuana, do we wanna put someone to death over it?

If someone get executes over some weed thats really wrong marijuana is medicine and herb not drug. :thumb:

 

[Illuminattile]

I fell that way because some types of violent criminals can not be rehabilitated and obviously can not be put back into society. On the other hand drug offenders commit drug crimes for other reasons obviously. Those types can be rehabilitated.

I see. What if the violent crime is committing under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or triggered by stress. Lots of people have anger management problems and successfully tackle this.

If Michael Jackson is found guilty, do you think he can be rehabilitated? Would you be happy with him being a free man? Should he be executed?

 

[Amara]

If someone get executes over some weed thats really wrong marijuana is medicine and herb not drug. :thumb:

That's what is going to happen though. The trial is not going well. At this stage, it looks as though she may be executed.

 

[Kaprice]

I'd imagine the offenders were well aware of the consequences that could arise if their capture occured. I mean, surely the example provided by Schappelle Corby's circumstance would have provided them with enough sense to not do such an act? Considering that, even though she has a plausible excuse, her chances of freedom still look quite dim.

If they are aware of the potential punishments that may be inflicted and carried out, but still do defy the law, then they should be punished accordingly (ofcoarse after a fair trial etc etc).

On whether they should serve their time in Australia, well, I'm not too sure. They did break the law on Indonesian soil, but then again, jail in Australia would be no different - a jail is a jail. However, allowing them to serve time in their homeland is kind of giving them some kind of benefits etc , something which a criminal to that extreme should not be receiving...

 

[Sebastian]

That's arguably important in regards to heroin, but what about the other case, export of marijuana - we all love marijuana, do we wanna put someone to death over it?

what? lol, no i dont love it..

On whether they should serve their time in Australia, well, I'm not too sure. They did break the law on Indonesian soil, but then again, jail in Australia would be no different - a jail is a jail. However, allowing them to serve time in their homeland is kind of giving them some kind of benefits etc , something which a criminal to that extreme should not be receiving...

no, there are big differences in some parts of the world