Death threats against Mohammed cartoonists

[Minardi]

This is insane.

A newspaper, called Jyllands Posten, in my country, made some sort of test to see how many artists where afraid to illustrate prophet Mohammed - also test freedom of speech/press in Denmark.

To qoute them :
"...Jyllands-Posten has called the cartoons a test of whether fear of Islamic retribution has begun to limit the freedom of expression in Denmark..." - You too judge.

These are 2 of the 12 pictures, also the most offending ones, the rest of the pictures are just normal drawings that wouldnt offend none.

Heres some qoutes to sum up what basically happened afterwards, when the pictures where released. :

"Demonstrations in Pakistan have escalated into death threats against Danish illustrators who drew pictures of the prophet Mohammed The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has warned Danish travellers to Pakistan of increased hazard after a Danish newspaper's decision to publish cartoons of Muslim prophet Mohammed escalated into a bounty being placed on the heads of the cartoonists."

"Shops and establishments in most parts of Kashmir Valley were closed Thursday to protest a Danish newspaper publishing a caricature of the Prophet"

The Turkish press tried out another tactic to get back at those horribly offending Danes: counter-caricature. Problem is, they dont seem to get that they are making total asses of themselves

caricature: Danish Prime Minister Rasmussen and now-imprisoned PKK leader Apo, lying in bed together, completely naked! And what's more, they are watching Roj TV from their bed.
The editors of Tempo are claiming that they are running a caricature like this in order to "test freedom of the press."

Some other links :
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/407
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/589

Compare the above with this picture illutrating Mary :

"...Meanwhile in Brussels a young Muslim immigrant published a poster depicting the Virgin Mary with naked breasts. Though the picture has drawn some protest from Catholics (though not from Western embassies, nor from the bishops), this artist need not fear being murdered in the street. On the contrary, he is being subsidised by the Ministry for Culture..."

Hypocrites. :laugh:

 

[tupacmansion]

So they decided to test their freedom of speech by totally insulting a religion. Yeah of course they were testing freedom of speech
Also who do you refer to when saying "hypocrites"

 

[Tru Principle]

I don't think insulting religon is a test of freedom, rather a test of character.

 

[Devious]

True freedom would mean you have the right to make fun or insult any religion you wanted to, whether it offends people or not. it may not be right, but if people truly want freedom, they must remember that this is what comes with it

 

[ARon]

That picture of Mary is nowhere near insulting. On the other hand the other ones are disrespectful, stereotypical and just ignorant.

 

[Minardi]

So they decided to test their freedom of speech by totally insulting a religion. Yeah of course they were testing freedom of speech

Totally insulting the religion? Whats the insulting part? that two out of 12 artists expressed thier negative view on islam in the pictures? Or the fact that muslims arent allow to portray Mohammed, and some artist wich wanted to do it, did it?

Do you know what freedom of speech is?

All this is blown out of proportion.
Embargo from muslims countries, because of a damn newspaper.
Wanting our country's leader to make an appoligy (!?)
Putting bounties on the painters heads
Bomb Threads.

Also who do you refer to when saying "hypocrites"

If you read the last part you would understand.

 

[Minardi]

That picture of Mary is nowhere near insulting. On the other hand the other ones are disrespectful, stereotypical and just ignorant.

So for Christians having Mary showing off her tits isnt offensive? Imagine wich rage there would be if one of those pictures where Mohammed with a big boner? or some other offensive stuff.

I dont want to discuss whats offending someones religion, because without a doubt these pictures does, but it doesnt justify islamic countries wanting to censor the press and our freedom. I mean, damn these pictures wouldnt even offend me if someone in 5th grade told me it was my momma, why blow it so much up!

 

[Minardi]

True freedom would mean you have the right to make fun or insult any religion you wanted to, whether it offends people or not. it may not be right, but if people truly want freedom, they must remember that this is what comes with it

Exactly, and thats one of the main arguments. Artists are afraid of mixing islam with humour.
We have a muslim comedian here that has recieved lots of death threats, and his own father doesnt speak to him.

The reason? Because makes fun of some elements in islam, just like he makes fun of shit in the western world, religions, etc.
Is it fair to censor people like that? Shit like humour binds people toghetter, and break tabu's, its healthy.... Especially in these times.

 

[tupacmansion]

Totally insulting the religion? Whats the insulting part? that two out of 12 artists expressed thier negative view on islam in the pictures? Or the fact that muslims arent allow to portray Mohammed, and some artist wich wanted to do it, did it?

Well a picture of a prophet, a bomb on his head embedded with islamic writing and you ask whats the insulting part!
It shows the artists hate for Islam, it doesn't even show what aspects of Islam he hates.
This is a religion which many people see as a way of life, you can't just show hatred towards the whole religion without reason.

Do you know what freedom of speech is?

yes, but this doesn't mean freedom to hate
There must be limits, how about a totally racist picture would you agree with that?

All this is blown out of proportion.
Embargo from muslims countries, because of a damn newspaper.
Wanting our country's leader to make an appoligy (!?)
Putting bounties on the painters heads
Bomb Threads.

true, they should just ignore this rather then give the artist publicity.

If you read the last part you would understand.

umm no

 

[ARon]

They aren't really making fun of or showing humor toward a relegion. They are expanding a stereotype even further. He is calling someone a terrorist basically, LOL lets all laugh at that. Serious.
As for the picture of virgin Mary goes I see why some people would be pissed but that is nothing. It is nudity, art has had nudity forever. If she had her legs open and no pants on I could see how that would piss people off but that is nothing. Really it was a poor attempt at insulting them.
Testing freedom of speech doesnt mean what you are saying has to be accepted. Obviously it was printed and released, their is the freedom. Did the artist truly expect people to laugh at those. It's like the pictures of the beheadings or the videos, yeah they release them but people dont show them or watch them cus they dont agree with it or its disgusting. Same with this shit.

 

[Duke]

This is a religion which many people see as a way of life, you can't just show hatred towards the whole religion without reason.

It's called freedom of speech.

 

[S O F I]

^Freedom of speech only exists because it's in the Constitution. Freedom of speech is not something that the world abides by, or must abide by. It's not universal law. Now, I don't know what the law is in Denmark, but I hate it when people defend everything with "Freedom of speech", as if it's a universal thing. There are limits in this world, and one would find out when he/she yells "I hope Bush dies, long live terrorism" in a US airport. Although I uphold "Freedom of Speech", I still believe there are certain limits that one shouldn't cross, if anything, for moral's sake.

 

[Devious]

I'm not sure this is really relevant to the topic, but I came across this this morning:
http://www.catholicleague.org/05press_releases/quarter 4/051230_Southpark_pulled.htm
It's about the South Park Finale from this season. If you've seen it, you will probably understand why the Catholic Church got mad, but I find this statement to be just slightly hypocritical, particularily the last paragraph

BTW: You can get a torrent link for the episode, entitled "Bloody Mary" here www.mrtwig.net

 

[Duke]

^Freedom of speech only exists because it's in the Constitution. Freedom of speech is not something that the world abides by, or must abide by. It's not universal law. Now, I don't know what the law is in Denmark, but I hate it when people defend everything with "Freedom of speech", as if it's a universal thing. There are limits in this world, and one would find out when he/she yells "I hope Bush dies, long live terrorism" in a US airport. Although I uphold "Freedom of Speech", I still believe there are certain limits that one shouldn't cross, if anything, for moral's sake.

I understand what you're saying. However, I feel that the "freedom of speech" principle should be absolute. Not mired by compromises.

Where does one draw the line between freedom of speech and offensive terms? Good question. I wouldn't know.

 

[not really ken]

I understand what you're saying. However, I feel that the "freedom of speech" principle should be absolute. Not mired by compromises.

Where does one draw the line between freedom of speech and offensive terms? Good question. I wouldn't know.

an absolute value? Scandolous! No such thing in democracy.

BTW, the holocaust never happened. Could I have some CNN time to say this? Yes really it proves beyond doubt the holocaust is made up, the sketch ius hilarious as well.

Freedom of speech should not be supressed when there is some good or alternative debate to be had about something. How can you draw someone factually when you have no idea what he looked like and then further this by depicting the posters with sterotypes and cliches, what's the point? Humour? In order to break taboos et al. Come of it, you know this was going to do anything but bring people together. That's just a bullshit excuse to cover peoples backsides or to make fools of people.

 

[Duke]

an absolute value? Scandolous! No such thing in democracy.

BTW, the holocaust never happened. Could I have some CNN time to say this? Yes really it proves beyond doubt the holocaust is made up, the sketch ius hilarious as well.

Either i've smoked too much weed or you're speaking in riddles.

Freedom of speech should not be supressed when there is some good or alternative debate to be had about something. How can you draw someone factually when you have no idea what he looked like and then further this by depicting the posters with sterotypes and cliches, what's the point? Humour? In order to break taboos et al. Come of it, you know this was going to do anything but bring people together. That's just a bullshit excuse to cover peoples backsides or to make fools of people.

My point, and Minardi's, isn't to argue that these images weren't offensive to some people. Clearly, they are. The point is the reaction on these images by people. The whole upheavel about a couple of cartoons. Like Minardi says, its blown way out of proportion.

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. And if you want to disregard freedom of speech when people can get offended, where do you draw said line? Who determines when it should or shouldn't be said or drawn?

They are simple caricatures. If the people offended can't live with the fact that there will always be people that aren't going to like you, your dog or your religion, they're going to have a hard life.

It's one newspaper in Denmark. And it escalates into a political crisis? Death threats to the cartoonists? It's hilarious. People should get their heads out of their arses.

 

[RFTP]

This is insane.

A newspaper, called Jyllands Posten, in my country, made some sort of test to see how many artists where afraid to illustrate prophet Mohammed - also test freedom of speech/press in Denmark.

To qoute them :
"...Jyllands-Posten has called the cartoons a test of whether fear of Islamic retribution has begun to limit the freedom of expression in Denmark..." - You too judge.

These are 2 of the 12 pictures, also the most offending ones, the rest of the pictures are just normal drawings that wouldnt offend none.

Heres some qoutes to sum up what basically happened afterwards, when the pictures where released. :

"Demonstrations in Pakistan have escalated into death threats against Danish illustrators who drew pictures of the prophet Mohammed The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has warned Danish travellers to Pakistan of increased hazard after a Danish newspaper's decision to publish cartoons of Muslim prophet Mohammed escalated into a bounty being placed on the heads of the cartoonists."

"Shops and establishments in most parts of Kashmir Valley were closed Thursday to protest a Danish newspaper publishing a caricature of the Prophet"

The Turkish press tried out another tactic to get back at those horribly offending Danes: counter-caricature. Problem is, they dont seem to get that they are making total asses of themselves

caricature: Danish Prime Minister Rasmussen and now-imprisoned PKK leader Apo, lying in bed together, completely naked! And what's more, they are watching Roj TV from their bed.
The editors of Tempo are claiming that they are running a caricature like this in order to "test freedom of the press."

Some other links :
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/407
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/589

Compare the above with this picture illutrating Mary :

"...Meanwhile in Brussels a young Muslim immigrant published a poster depicting the Virgin Mary with naked breasts. Though the picture has drawn some protest from Catholics (though not from Western embassies, nor from the bishops), this artist need not fear being murdered in the street. On the contrary, he is being subsidised by the Ministry for Culture..."

Hypocrites. :laugh:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

A dane talking about what's right or wrong, what's hypocritical and what's not, what's racist and what's not.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This is the best joke since Hitler declared that he didn't have any intention of invading Poland.

BWAHAHAHA

 

[RFTP]

It's one newspaper in Denmark. And it escalates into a political crisis? Death threats to the cartoonists? It's hilarious. People should get their heads out of their arses.

obviously you're not very familiar with denmarks foreign policy or about a danes perspective (yea I know,abit hypocritical of me drawing a conclusion that every dane thinks the same) about islam and foerigners then you'd know a thing or two.

 

[S O F I]

I understand what you're saying. However, I feel that the "freedom of speech" principle should be absolute. Not mired by compromises.

Where does one draw the line between freedom of speech and offensive terms? Good question. I wouldn't know.

The problem with the freedom of speech is, the freedom of speech has the value and importance of speaking out diminished. If freedom of speech was outlawed in America, it wouldn't take more than one protest to make a bigger impact against Bush than what rappers, television shows, movies, internet bloggers (the list can go on forever) have been doing constantly for 4-5 years now.

I reckon one knows when to draw the line when freedom of speech offends what he/she love, stand for, and truly believe in.
But, yes, good question indeed. Strictly subjective, I say.

 

[Minardi]

Either i've smoked too much weed or you're speaking in riddles.




My point, and Minardi's, isn't to argue that these images weren't offensive to some people. Clearly, they are. The point is the reaction on these images by people. The whole upheavel about a couple of cartoons. Like Minardi says, its blown way out of proportion.

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. And if you want to disregard freedom of speech when people can get offended, where do you draw said line? Who determines when it should or shouldn't be said or drawn?

They are simple caricatures. If the people offended can't live with the fact that there will always be people that aren't going to like you, your dog or your religion, they're going to have a hard life.

It's one newspaper in Denmark. And it escalates into a political crisis? Death threats to the cartoonists? It's hilarious. People should get their heads out of their arses.

Exactly! :thumb: