Christian question

[Jocka]

Christians have gotta be pissed off these days. It's like a battle of the wits with religions.. but in all fairness, it's cuz it makes the least sense of all religions to me.

This question may not apply to just christians, but jews and/or muslims as well. Any that believe Jesus existed, really.

While growing up, I was taught christian ways. One of the most IMPORTANT things I seemed to learn growing up, is, that you can't be perfect. And, appearantly, Jesus was the only perfect man according to most christian belief.

Please, open up your king james bibles to job. Read the following passages please:

Job 1:1 - "1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."

Job 1:8 - "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

FOR REFERENCE, here's the online bible: http://www.bibleontheweb.com/Bible.asp

Question being, why is jesus still refered to as "the only perfect man on earth" ?

 

[Jokerman]

Well, the sense of the word perfect being used by the King James translators is not the same sense of meaning as the word perfect as applied to Jesus. Remember, english meanings in King James's time is not always the same as used today. The word they were translating actually means blameless, and later translations show this correction. But in those days one sense of the meaning of perfect was blameless. And that was referring to Job's character, not his being born sinless like Jesus.

 

[Rukas]

Christians have gotta be pissed off these days. It's like a battle of the wits with religions.. but in all fairness, it's cuz it makes the least sense of all religions to me.

This question may not apply to just christians, but jews and/or muslims as well. Any that believe Jesus existed, really.

While growing up, I was taught christian ways. One of the most IMPORTANT things I seemed to learn growing up, is, that you can't be perfect. And, appearantly, Jesus was the only perfect man according to most christian belief.

Please, open up your king james bibles to job. Read the following passages please:

Job 1:1 - "1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."

Job 1:8 - "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

FOR REFERENCE, here's the online bible: http://www.bibleontheweb.com/Bible.asp

Question being, why is jesus still refered to as "the only perfect man on earth" ?

It's not Christianities fault that you were taught misleadingly or "half truths" and base your distaste for the Religion on someone else’s wrong teachings.

That’s like saying you grew up being taught that 2 + 2 = 5, and then you worked out it wasn't exactly right, so you dislike Mathematics now because your original faulty education confused you.

That is God’s quote about Job, and as Jokerman pointed out it means blameless. Only God can label anything perfect or blameless, Job himself said:
"If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life." Job 9:20,21.

I was never taught that Jesus was PERFECT, we were taught that he was sinless, once again a different context.

So as I said before, you can not base your dislike of something simply because of a poor education on the matter. You, or someone who taught you, misunderstood the context of the word perfect and the meaning behind it. You, or someone who taught you are at fault with the confusion, not Christianity.

 

[not really ken]

^Can't argue with that, ignorance and intellect are not the same Jocka!

 

[2PacThug4Life]

because it's true, God is tha only perfect person past, present, and future.

 

[Jocka]

It's not Christianities fault that you were taught misleadingly or "half truths" and base your distaste for the Religion on someone else’s wrong teachings.

That’s like saying you grew up being taught that 2 + 2 = 5, and then you worked out it wasn't exactly right, so you dislike Mathematics now because your original faulty education confused you.

That is God’s quote about Job, and as Jokerman pointed out it means blameless. Only God can label anything perfect or blameless, Job himself said:
"If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life." Job 9:20,21.

I was never taught that Jesus was PERFECT, we were taught that he was sinless, once again a different context.

So as I said before, you can not base your dislike of something simply because of a poor education on the matter. You, or someone who taught you, misunderstood the context of the word perfect and the meaning behind it. You, or someone who taught you are at fault with the confusion, not Christianity.

after reading Jokerman's reply.. i did check another version of the bible and found that the world "blameless" was used.

I don't base my beliefs on the wrong teachings. Growing up, I re-read everything I was "taught" to insure that it was whole truth. In this case, the church i attended and the people in it evidentally used "perfect" to describe him as "sinless". Which I guess, I may have misunderstood.

I always look for another answer before asking questions, but in this case, I made an ass of myself and assumed I had outsmarted someone lol.

Although I don't believe in Christianity, I do believe and God. And by scientific fact, I must believe that Jesus existed as well. I just do not put myself into one single religion and give myself a name. I'd rather have my own beliefs and ideas based on what I know.

So another question I was wondering the other day while attending church (my fiance's church).

Was there any women that contributed to the bible? As in, wrote something in it?

 

[Jokerman]

The Chronicles of Noah and Her Sisters


No, Ruth might have been written by a woman, but it's not known for sure, just a point-of-view theory.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Was there any women that contributed to the bible? As in, wrote something in it?

Apparently not.

A documentary I watched which aimed to trace the Bible back to it's origin & clarify all the revisions made from then until now made the point that in the days it was written & revised, women were nowhere near equal & so their accounts would be disregarded.

There is a train of thought that actually believes Mary Magdalene may have tried to submit her version & was refused, from which point the train of thought comes to a forkroad. Both sides acknowledge she was refused on the basis of gender. But one side believes that's where it stops & the other side believes it was because of the supposed relationship she had with Jesus.

Both sides think she might've been written into the Bible as a prostitute to discredit any version of events she would ever give, & the latter thinks it's also to discredit her incase she were to ever claim to have had a relationship with Jesus.

 

[Jocka]

Wow.. people were real fucked up back then. Women had no right to tell a story of God?

Another thing, is it just me or does every chapter seem to read out the same? I'm not sure that made sense, so I'll be more specific. If you read a Steven King book, then throw it down and read a John Grisham book, there are 2 different types of story tellers. They each tell these stories in their own way and perspective. In the bible, every chapter seems to be written in the same exact way and perspective as the next. If there were more than one writer during the creation of the bible, is it realistically possible that they could all share the same exact perspective and story telling technique?

I don't hate this religion just to clarify lol. I just have THOUSANDS of questions.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Wow.. people were real fucked up back then. Women had no right to tell a story of God?

Another thing, is it just me or does every chapter seem to read out the same? I'm not sure that made sense, so I'll be more specific. If you read a Steven King book, then throw it down and read a John Grisham book, there are 2 different types of story tellers. They each tell these stories in their own way and perspective. In the bible, every chapter seems to be written in the same exact way and perspective as the next. If there were more than one writer during the creation of the bible, is it realistically possible that they could all share the same exact perspective and story telling technique?

I don't hate this religion just to clarify lol. I just have THOUSANDS of questions.

In this same documentary it made the point that some of the Gospels were not completely new works but rather plagiarised. I can't remember who copied who, but they took the previous Gospel writer's work, & edited how they saw fit. Some would take one piece from ehre, another piece from there etc.

 

[Jocka]

In this same documentary it made the point that some of the Gospels were not completely new works but rather plagiarised. I can't remember who copied who, but they took the previous Gospel writer's work, & edited how they saw fit. Some would take one piece from ehre, another piece from there etc.

Do you happen to know the name of this documentary? Maybe if I watch it, a few of my questions can be answered.

Isn't the bible originally in Arabic or Hebrew or something? And if so, then I suppose it's also possible that the translator wrote this in his perspective instead of word by word.

 

[The.Menace]

Question being, why is jesus still refered to as "the only perfect man on earth" ?

where is this the case? When did they say this in the bible? I want a reference.

 

[Flipmo]

I don't remember being taught that Jesus was perfect. Who's been telling you all this?

 

[Jocka]

where is this the case? When did they say this in the bible? I want a reference.

I never said that it was in the bible, I said this is what I was taught. Perfect appearantly was meant as "sinless".

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Do you happen to know the name of this documentary? Maybe if I watch it, a few of my questions can be answered.

It was a documentary aired on British TV. I watched it & the repeat - just for clarity. I think it was entitled something imaginative like, "Who Wrote the Bible?"......I kid you not.

 

[Jokerman]

is it realistically possible that they could all share the same exact perspective and story telling technique?

No, and they don't. You're just not trained to read that material well enough to distinguish. (That's a nice way of saying you're basically illiterate. )

 

[Jocka]

lol How does one train to read this properly?

Here's another question.. a straight from the bible question.

I'm not 100% familiar with the story, but i know it's in there.. Can somebody please tell me the story, or the chapter to find the story, where jesus cursed a tree?

 

[Rukas]

I'm not 100% familiar with the story, but i know it's in there.. Can somebody please tell me the story, or the chapter to find the story, where jesus cursed a tree?

To my knowledge that is not true, so I cant provide you with a chapter.

If you think its true and want your question answered, the burden is on you to provide evidence that such a refrence exists.

 

[TecK NeeX]

.

I'm not 100% familiar with the story, but i know it's in there.. Can somebody please tell me the story, or the chapter to find the story, where jesus cursed a tree?

In 21:18-20 Matthew believes that Jesus cursed the fig tree.

Jesus entered Jerusalem and went to the temple. He looked around at everything, but since it was already late, he went out to Bethany with the Twelve. The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it. On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there…

Matthew 21:18-20 Now in the morning as he returned to the city, he hungered. And seeing a fig tree by the way side, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only; and he saith unto it, “Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever.” And immediately the fig tree withered away. And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, “How did the fig tree immediately wither away?”


Mark 20-21: And as they passed by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered away from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, “Rabbi, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away”

 

[Jocka]

^thank you.

Rukas, feel better knowing it was actually in the bible? I wasn't being "blasphemous" towards christianity, I just wanted to know the entire story and where to find it myself. In the future, please don't delete posts because you believe they may have been "bad" towards a religion.. it's not "bad", it's simple questions. We all have them.