Christian Missionaries refuse to help tsunami victims

[Amara]

Amara, You make it sound as if these people are scared to convert. May be they have belief in their own religion and they don't want to convert. Maybe they have read the contradictions of the bible and are afraid of commiting their life to those cntradictions.
Also their is nothing wrong with discussing their beliefs, but you can't force your beliefs on another person as the missionaries have tried.
Another thing you say is that they will be given religous freedom and choice. They are being forced into religion through not having a choice(due to starvation) and yet you still paradoxically say that they will be given a choice. And what tells u that they don't have choice or freedom. Or r u jus making assumptions that every non westernised country is a dicatorship, where the people have no voice and no rights.

I say they should not need to convert and that what underlies the problem (re-building after mass devastation) has nothing to do with religion and that I do not see why it is viewed that way.

I do not believe the Christian missionaries were imposing their beliefs and denying aid, but that it is a trumped-up media portrayal designed to stimulate hate - perhaps I did not make that clear enough in my comments. If anything, I believe there is much more to this story that what was said in the article, particularly as to why they left. If aid workers come in, naturally they will discuss their beliefs. The strength of the Hindu community would suggest to me that despite the presence of Christians, the majority of their beliefs will be retained. So, instead it should be viewed as a situation to potentially bridge a gap between religions through compassion and shared learning - the presence of Christians should not be viewed negatively, but instead should be respected for their right to freedom of speech, as should the Hindus and the as for the individual people - well whatever they chose to learn from this is their choice! (so I dunno where you got that dictatorship crap from).

 

[tupacmansion]

I agree with most of what you say. There is nothing wrong with teaching people about their religion as long as it isn't done in a forceful manner. The article suggest it is done in a forceful manner. That is what i disagree with. I would disagree even if muslims or jews did this. Its not the religion that i disagree with, its the way that these missionaries are conducting themselves. Also you clearly say that
" Death and disease should be the greatest concern, not that people may be EXPOSED to religious freedom of speech...and heaven forbid....choice"
this comment shows that you assume that they don't allready have freedom of speech and choice. Why do you assume that. I think that YOU need to be EXPOSED to the truth, which shows that they are allready free.........goddamit

 

[Amara]

I agree with most of what you say. There is nothing wrong with teaching people about their religion as long as it isn't done in a forceful manner. The article suggest it is done in a forceful manner. That is what i disagree with. I would disagree even if muslims or jews did this. Its not the religion that i disagree with, its the way that these missionaries are conducting themselves. Also you clearly say that
" Death and disease should be the greatest concern, not that people may be EXPOSED to religious freedom of speech...and heaven forbid....choice"
this comment shows that you assume that they don't allready have freedom of speech and choice. Why do you assume that. I think that YOU need to be EXPOSED to the truth, which shows that they are allready free.........goddamit

Because I do not believe that, as the article said, Christians are imposing beliefs in a forceful manner, but that what is really happening is complications of aid delivery on account of contending beliefs and lack of understanding (and that blaming Christian manipulation of aid is a convenient vehicle for detracting from the truth, which may very well be they were turned away, already bound for somewhere else etc. as Rukas meantioned). Now, I could be wrong, but that is my suspicion and that is what fuels my comments. I think this religious tension and fear of exposure to other beliefs, and an unwillingness to allow for individual choice are detracting from the main concern - starvation, death, disease.

 

[tupacmansion]

Because I do not believe that, as the article said, Christians are imposing beliefs in a forceful manner, but that what is really happening is complications of aid delivery on account of contending beliefs and lack of understanding (and that blaming Christian manipulation of aid is a convenient vehicle for detracting from the truth, which may very well be they were turned away, already bound for somewhere else etc. as Rukas meantioned). Now, I could be wrong, but that is my suspicion and that is what fuels my comments. I think this religious tension and fear of exposure to other beliefs, and an unwillingness to allow for individual choice are detracting from the main concern - starvation, death, disease.

If the article was true then what would your oppinion be?

 

[Rukas]

^ i said the muslim and the other 100 or so groups that were there. i never said muslims should help muslims only, the majority of the christian aid workers that are found in those hit areas are there for help and help only, even the pope opposed and spoke out against proselytizing and said christians should not take advantage of the tsunami disaster to recruit converts. im all for help from followers ofany religion, race etc, but using Jesus, food, money on the young and the needy to bring converts is just plain inhumane if you ask me.

Fair enough, but there is nothing to suggest in this article that that was the case at all. And most of the time like I said, its not a case of Christians trying to preach or convert, its just a case of Christian beliefs manifesting themselves through Christian people. You cant stick your hand out for help and then refuse to accept the helpers belief system. Thats as wrong as forcing your beliefs onto someone else which you are so quick to label these people of doing.

 

[Amara]

If the article was true then what would your oppinion be?

That such actions contradict the teaching of Jesus. Preservation of human life, along with tolerance, compassion and easing the suffering of people in need are values espoused by all religions and should be practiced by all.

 

[Rukas]

Amara, You make it sound as if these people are scared to convert. May be they have belief in their own religion and they don't want to convert. Maybe they have read the contradictions of the bible and are afraid of commiting their life to those cntradictions.

Oh yeah, Im sure. These people sat there amongst their third world living conditions and debated the relevence of Christian teachings. Whats more, they read the bible (while a lot of them cant even read it) and debated the contradictions. Yep of course. Thats it. Oh I see it now!!!

Its obvious your dislike for Christianity is just fueling your illogical thinking in this. By mentioning the Bible its so obvious you are just attacking ALL Christianity and for you this isnt even a debate about these missionaries at all. And thats sad, that you would belive a bullshit article based on your ignorant feelings to begin with.

Also their is nothing wrong with discussing their beliefs, but you can't force your beliefs on another person as the missionaries have tried.
Another thing you say is that they will be given religous freedom and choice. They are being forced into religion through not having a choice(due to starvation) and yet you still paradoxically say that they will be given a choice. And what tells u that they don't have choice or freedom. Or r u jus making assumptions that every non westernised country is a dicatorship, where the people have no voice and no rights.

There is always a choice. Like I said before, how exactly do you think these people force other into Christianity? Do they force them to pray? Well if thats the case, once they do that, are they always going to be Christian? Are these people going to sit around and watch the villagers for the rest of their lives to make sure they stay Christian? Bullshit. Everyone knows that there is no way to convert someone, they can offer their belief knowledge and try to teach people while they help them, that is fine. But there is no way to force someone to stay Christian, so there is no way these people would even try.

Its fucking absurd that you would think people can be forced into Christianity by one action of giving food. Come on, thats a insult to the Christians and to these Hindu and Muslim people.

Stop believing all this propganda and use some common sense.

Furthermore I hope you understand that the majority of religious people are forced into their faith by the environment they grow up in.

 

[tupacmansion]

That such actions contradict the teaching of Jesus. Preservation of human life, along with tolerance, compassion and easing the suffering of people in need are values espoused by all religions and should be practiced by all.

On that we agree. P.S. ur name sounds islamic, r u muslim. Jus wonderin.........

 

[Amara]

On that we agree. P.S. ur name sounds islamic, r u muslim. Jus wonderin.........

Good, glad we could agree.
My name is Indian actually, although I've heard it is common in the Middle East. I'm not a muslim, no.

 

[tupacmansion]

Its obvious your dislike for Christianity is just fueling your illogical thinking in this.

QUOTE]

Rukas, i don't dislike christianty or christians. I admire anyone who believes in God. As a muslim I have no choice but to believe in Jesus. The reason i may have sounded harsh towards ur religion was b'coz of the article. Shit like that gets me pissed. To Rukas and Amara, I apologize for goin on about christianity and all that other bullshit. Its jus that Groobz decided to bring religion into it, so i followed suit.

Peace

 

[Amara]

Rukas, i don't dislike christianty or christians. I admire anyone who believes in God. As a muslim I have no choice but to believe in Jesus. The reason i may have sounded harsh towards ur religion was b'coz of the article. Shit like that gets me pissed. To Rukas and Amara, I apologize for goin on about christianity and all that other bullshit. Its jus that Groobz decided to bring religion into it, so i followed suit.
Peace

It is clear to me that you have not intended to disrespect Christians or show hatred, but that the contents of the article gave you reason to question the intentions of those particular missionaries. Don't appologise for having an opinion - that's what this whole forum is about.

 

[tupacmansion]

It is clear to me that you have not intended to disrespect Christians or show hatred, but that the contents of the article gave you reason to question the intentions of those particular missionaries. Don't appologise for having an opinion - that's what this whole forum is about.

Thats true, but ill try to stick to the article next time and ill stop goin in to religion. Anyway.im off to sleep now. Cya

 

[Rukas]

thugsmansion Id like to officially commend you for being so mature and being the bigger man and appologizing and squashing it, especially since I myself got a bit heated there. Its very rare to find someone here that will actually appologize, most people will just drag it on and try to one up everyone.

So props to you.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

I won't make much of a comment as I can't be bothered reading every single post, but I will say that, maybe some Christians did turn their back on victims, but a lot didn't.

There bad Christians & good Christians, bad Muslims & good Muslims etc.

You will find that there aren't many people on this planet who following religion to a T.
If they did, they wouldn't be hating on others so often & they would help everyone regardless of religion.

As it is, they don't, so people should really be judged individually on their character rather than talking about 'Christians didn't help Tsunami victims' just like it was out of order when the American porpaganda machine made out that 'Muslims are terrorists'.

 

[LL COOL PAC]

Man i bet half of this is so far out of preportion its not funny. You really think they said "Turn christian or we wont help you." I doubt that. Its not even logical, it wouldnt work. If these people did it, as soon as the missionaries left they would just go back to their own ways, and the Christian missionaries know this, so whats the point?

I bet its just a case of the missionaries wanting them to respect their Christian beliefs. Which is fair enough, if you want something from someone, the least you can do is respect them, not ignore their beliefs but at the same time expect them to follow your muslim or hindu beliefs.

The article, apart from that obviously biased quote, says nothing about what these Christians did or why they left. Its all worded to make them look bad, but shows no proof what so ever. It doesnt even say if the aid was meant for them, maybe it was meant for the village over. Everything written in it is just bullshit.

And if they are preaching about Jesus, that is their God given right and freedom to do so. You dont have to listen to them, but dont disrespect their beliefs. Simple

In 2002 christian missionaries from australia went to the south of india with food and medicine. However they would only treat those that identified themselves as christians and so because these people were desperatly poor and hungry they began converting from hinduism/islam to christianity. Once the news that this was going on started to spread more and more hindus started to confront these supposed "missonaries". They maintained their position that they would only feed converts and hence kept all their medicine/food in their compound. So one night the local crowd went to where these australians were staying and set fire to their house. Everyone from the australian team was burned alive. You may think that was harsh but i think it was perfectly justifiable considering their own actions. These people were supposedly teaching the word of christ tell me where in the bible it says you let innocent hindu people die simply for not subscribing to your religon. I will dig up a source once i get home. its simly not right to use a carrot and stick approach to try and get people to change religon

 

[groobz]

lol are you saying these militants killed millions of christians? how the fuck is that possible when 99.5 % of the country aint christian, how can they kill millions and millions them when there aint even 500 000 thousand christians in the whole freakin country? stop with the bullshit already, 90% of the deaths killed was due to famine, deseases, you and your propaganda have gone way too far

and the link you provided, its only source is a "head of an aid group who recently returned from the African nation." let me guess he is christian?



look here grooby why do you always say islam? if a bunch of buddhists killed a random group of people, would you say buddhism has problems or these buddhists have the problem? know the difference muslims and islam 'mate'..and could you name me these 90% of all the religious wars islam was involved in?

Millions have died over the years not at one time dur.. i can't believe your denying this. Christians have been slaughtered and women raped by islamic militants, they've also starved to death from having no food or resourses that the islamic government refuses to give to them,, thats why there is so many aid workers over there now trying to help them.

About your buddism anology,, it would depend how often it happens. If you want to fix problems you have to on the stats, its obvious that islam has a problem with militancy, and christianity has a problem with child molestation. Because this shit has happened over and over again.. It's just people are too pissweak to say it, because its not politically correct and they might offend some people. Don't deny shit that is plain as day techy,, you don't see buddists declaring war on their neighbouring communities ect, you don't see believers of Shinto raping children.

 

[Amara]

christianity has a problem with child molestation

...only the Catholic Church.....lol :O

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Some people see this as an opportunity rather than a tragedy.

Exactly. Its always like that (taking advantage of people in need).

 

[Yahya]

Mate, do you have any idea as to what muslim militants are doing in Sudan right now? it's called genocide. So stop acting like your shit doesn't stink. If this is true than it's terrible but its not like all christians are like that,, what about to all the churches that raised money for the tsunami appeal?

Why do users hasten to repeat the same myths that are woefully misleading. There is no genocide in Sudan. I've covered this not too long ago. The conflict in (south) Sudan and the majority of the deaths have been the result of political, factional and ethnic rivalry within Sudan organisations and ethnic groups themselves.

EU: no genocide in Darfur
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sudan/story/0,14658,1279530,00.html

Groobz also cited WND which demonstrates that he googles for any source that supports his bigotry. Anyone who cites WND and acknowledges their propagandic distortions as factual is a bigot. Plain and simple. This is as absurd as the "Slavery in Sudan" myth.

 

[groobz]

Why do users hasten to repeat the same myths that are woefully misleading. There is no genocide in Sudan. I've covered this not too long ago. The conflict in (south) Sudan and the majority of the deaths have been the result of political, factional and ethnic rivalry within Sudan organisations and ethnic groups themselves.

EU: no genocide in Darfur
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sudan/story/0,14658,1279530,00.html

Groobz also cited WND which demonstrates that he googles for any source that supports his bigotry. Anyone who cites WND and acknowledges their propagandic distortions as factual is a bigot. Plain and simple. This is as absurd as the "Slavery in Sudan" myth.

So the islamic millitants slaughtering the christians are doing this because of politics? or is it just a coinsidence?. Your little site even acknowledges that there has been terrible violence in sudan,, so do you agree with what the islamic militants are doing there? What is your solution to the problem islam has with militancy?