Canada allows Sikh knives in school

#1
Canada allows Sikh knives in school

Friday 03 March 2006, 11:46 Makka Time, 8:46 GMT

Canada's high court has allowed Sikh pupils to carry a small knife of religious significance in public schools, favouring multiculturalism over security.

It overturned a 2004 Quebec appeals court ruling barring the kirpan, which the high court said was a blow to freedom of religion.

The decision made on Thursday affects only schools, not other places such as airliners.

The case began in 2001 when Gurbaj Multani, then 12, was suspended from school in Montreal for carrying the kirpan.

"The council of commissioners' decision prohibiting (the boy) from wearing his kirpan to school infringes his freedom of religion," the ruling said.

"Religious tolerance is a very important value of Canadian society," the ruling said.

"The interference with (his) freedom of religion is neither trivial nor insignificant, as it has deprived him of his right to attend a public school," the court said.

Tolerance values

The League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith Canada said in a statement: "The accommodation of religious rights is intrinsic to the values of Canadian society as long as they are balanced against other fundamental rights, including the right to safety and security."

Gurbaj told reporters after the ruling, "It is an article of faith. We don't use it. We don't draw it."

Ann Lowthian of the World Sikh Organisation said of the continued prohibition of the kirpan in other venues: "These matters are settled on a case-by-case basis."

The ruling also said, "If some students consider it unfair that (a Sikh) may wear his kirpan to school while they are not allowed to have knives in their possession, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instil in their students this value that is at the very foundation of our democracy."

Security restrictions

"A total prohibition against wearing a kirpan to school undermines the value of this religious symbol and sends students the message that some religious practices do not merit the same protection as others.

"Lastly, the argument that the wearing of kirpans should be prohibited because the kirpan is a symbol of violence and because it sends the message that using force is necessary to assert rights and resolve conflict is not only contradicted by the evidence regarding the symbolic nature of the kirpan, but is also disrespectful to believers in the Sikh religion and does not take into account Canadian values based on multiculturalism," it added.

Orthodox Sikhs are required to carry the kirpan, one of the five artifacts of the Sikh faith, symbolising the obligation of the faithful to rise up against injustice.

It had already been allowed in schools in the provinces of Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia with certain security restrictions.

Nearly 280,000 Sikhs live in Canada, according to official statistics, and 10%-15% are orthodox.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/34DBFE86-B741-4087-A5AA-DE791F9F27CD.htm
What do you guys think of this? Personally I'm all for religious freedom of expression, but is a school really a place where knives, whether ceremonial or not, should be present? If I was in a religion that said I had to carry a gun around at all times (yes i know there isn't one, just an example, an extreme one, but an example nonetheless) do you think they'd give me the right to carry it at school? Honestly, I'm not trying to come off as racist, but i think the Canadian Government is afraid to offend eastern religions, and allowed this to avoid any public backlash.
 

hizzle?

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#2
I think that he shouldn't wear it... It's ok to follow your traditions and your religion, but if YOU move to ANOTHER country, then shut the hell up, follow their rules, and respect them for letting you stay in their country....
 
#3
how hizzle? said:
I think that he shouldn't wear it... It's ok to follow your traditions and your religion, but if YOU move to ANOTHER country, then shut the hell up, follow their rules, and respect them for letting you stay in their country....
Well I wouldn't go that far. Thats whats great about countries like Canada, you area llowed to practice whatever religion you choose. I just don't think its appropriate to have a knife at school, whether it's for religious reasons or not.
 
#7
Devious187 said:
Honestly, I'm not trying to come off as racist, but i think the Canadian Government is afraid to offend eastern religions, and allowed this to avoid any public backlash.
:thumb: That's exactly what I feel it is.
 

V@PoR

New Member
#8
Illuminattile said:
Pens are essential. Little knives that people think they need to carry around with them are not.
^^ I agreee, kids are allowed to have small knives and some kid makes fun of him for it and then stabbings occur/
 

Chronic

Well-Known Member
#9
how hizzle? said:
I think that he shouldn't wear it... It's ok to follow your traditions and your religion, but if YOU move to ANOTHER country, then shut the hell up, follow their rules, and respect them for letting you stay in their country....
I read the article but I didn't see where it said he was born in another country and moved to Canada. Can you show me please?
 

S O F I

Administrator
Staff member
#10
Were there any reports of stabbings in schools in Canada, where kirpans were allowed? I say we should look at the reports and go from there.
 

Synful*Luv

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#11
Devious187 said:
Orthodox Sikhs are required to carry the kirpan, one of the five artifacts of the Sikh faith, symbolising the obligation of the faithful to rise up against injustice.

This is the only part that really worries me. If this is the case. It could progress to the kid being teased, seriously hurting someone with the kirpan, and then saying it was his obligation to rise up against injustice. The injustice being the kids picking on him. Then how do you handle a case like that? The parents of the kid hurt are going to want this kid thrown in jail. But at the same time, the kid is doing what he believes his religion expects for him to do. And at the same time, he can always use his religion as an excuse to go around and purposely hurt kids in the school (not saying he is going to do that) It just opens a lot of doors and the gov't will have no one to blame but themselves.
 
#12
Synful*Luv said:
This is the only part that really worries me. If this is the case. It could progress to the kid being teased, seriously hurting someone with the kirpan, and then saying it was his obligation to rise up against injustice. The injustice being the kids picking on him. Then how do you handle a case like that? The parents of the kid hurt are going to want this kid thrown in jail. But at the same time, the kid is doing what he believes his religion expects for him to do. And at the same time, he can always use his religion as an excuse to go around and purposely hurt kids in the school (not saying he is going to do that) It just opens a lot of doors and the gov't will have no one to blame but themselves.
Well I don't know about any of that, that could potentially happen, it easily could, but the issue really is that if I'm not allowed to bring a weapon to school, even if its a ceremonial one, then why should this person be able to, just because its a part of his religion?
 

Synful*Luv

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#13
Devious187 said:
Well I don't know about any of that, that could potentially happen, it easily could, but the issue really is that if I'm not allowed to bring a weapon to school, even if its a ceremonial one, then why should this person be able to, just because its a part of his religion?

Well, good question. Maybe so that it doesn't turn into a situation where minority support groups can scream claims on racism. I doubt if something like that would fly here. The public school systems are extremely strict about no religion being allowed in the school at any times for any reason. So I couldn't see something like that being approved. I don't know. Seems like it might cause a lot of controversy though if it already hasn't. I would say that was a great thing, if it was anything other than a weapon that we were talking about...
 

Chronic

Well-Known Member
#14
Synful*Luv said:
This is the only part that really worries me. If this is the case. It could progress to the kid being teased, seriously hurting someone with the kirpan, and then saying it was his obligation to rise up against injustice. The injustice being the kids picking on him. Then how do you handle a case like that? The parents of the kid hurt are going to want this kid thrown in jail. But at the same time, the kid is doing what he believes his religion expects for him to do. And at the same time, he can always use his religion as an excuse to go around and purposely hurt kids in the school (not saying he is going to do that) It just opens a lot of doors and the gov't will have no one to blame but themselves.
Devious187 said:
Gurbaj told reporters after the ruling, "It is an article of faith. We don't use it. We don't draw it."
So he can't hide behind his religion.
 
#15
Synful*Luv said:
Well, good question. Maybe so that it doesn't turn into a situation where minority support groups can scream claims on racism. I doubt if something like that would fly here. The public school systems are extremely strict about no religion being allowed in the school at any times for any reason. So I couldn't see something like that being approved. I don't know. Seems like it might cause a lot of controversy though if it already hasn't. I would say that was a great thing, if it was anything other than a weapon that we were talking about...
Well it just happened last week and I think it would be more controversial and more people would be talking about it if it wasn't people from the east who resemble muslims (Even tho sikh is totally different than muslim, from what i know). Everyone is afraid to offend any eastern religion now since the cartoon riots. Personally I think it should be getting a lot more attention than it is
 

Glockmatic

Well-Known Member
#16
I see no problem with it. Star of Davids can be used as ninja stars, crucifixes can be used as those things Raphael had in Ninja Turtles. Freedom of religion~ its in our Charter
 

Synful*Luv

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#17
Chronic said:
So he can't hide behind his religion.

But he can always try and use that as a cop out though. I mean i'm sure that's not it's intended purpose, but it still opens that door for it to be debatable. A lot of these religions leave so much room for the person's own interpretation on things...and if he feels that it's meant for him to use it in order to rise up against an injustice in the literal sense, then what. I'm not saying he will do this, i'm just saying, it leaves room for him to be able to say that.
 
#18
Glockmatic said:
I see no problem with it. Star of Davids can be used as ninja stars, crucifixes can be used as those things Raphael had in Ninja Turtles. Freedom of religion~ its in our Charter
Technically, you're right, they can be used as weapons, but they aren't actual weapons. A Kirpan is a weapon. A Star Of David or a crucifix, they aren't. By your definition, most items you would find in a school could be used as weapons (pens, pencils, books, staplers, etc.). Should we ban those too? No, of course not. But like Syn said, this opens the door to many possibilities, and I think it should have been considered more seriously than it was, instead of rushing it through the courts in order to please the Sikhs.
 

Glockmatic

Well-Known Member
#19
well from my knowledge, the kirpan is required to be worn at all times. By not allowing them to wear the kirpan, we tread over their right to freedom of religion and right to education (if they feel like they cannot go to school because of their religious practices). Also the kirpan is only used AS A SYMBOL, a reminder to fight oppression and for justice, they cannot use it as a weapon.
 
#20
Glockmatic said:
well from my knowledge, the kirpan is required to be worn at all times. By not allowing them to wear the kirpan, we tread over their right to freedom of religion and right to education (if they feel like they cannot go to school because of their religious practices). Also the kirpan is only used AS A SYMBOL, a reminder to fight oppression and for justice, they cannot use it as a weapon.
Well see thats my point. I'm not saying they should have just said no outright. It should be open for debate. I believe in the freedom to religious expression like everyone else, even tho i don't follow any myself. But I felt like they rushed this issue through the courts in order to placate the Sikhs, rather than give it the thought and consideration an issue like this deserves.

There are some serious questions to think about. What's to stop a kid of eastern descent who isn't a sikh from getting ahold of a kirpan and bringing it to school with the intention to use it as a weapon? They would be unable to prevent him/her from bringing it into the school, because the person can claim religious expression (since I doubt they hand out membership cards, there's really no way to tell if they really are or not), so theres no way to prevent him/her from using it. Of course thats only an example, I can't say how likely it is but its definitely possible, which is why I thought they should have given it more thought before making a decision.
 

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