Atheists

[Illuminattile]

I would also have to be brainwashed to not believe in God. i believe Atheists are just as much if not more brainwashed than any religious group. They just don't know it and refuse to accept this fact. Darwin and his religious beliefs in the unseen and the unproven aka Evolution is a main contributor to the successful brainwashing of millions of religious people into embracing something much more absurd and illogical than any religion by claiming "it's Science" when every damn thing about the theory is unscientific.

You're assuming that everyone who doesn't believe in God believes in Evolution. Any reason for this?

Religion tells you what's right and what's wrong, religion tells you how to live your life. There's no dusty old book or collection of outdated superstitions and rituals that tells the atheist how to live. The atheist is capable of thinking for himself. If the atheist agrees with Evolution, he's free to do so. He doesn't have to check a book written thousands of years ago to make sure that science doesn't contradict the infallible word of whichever God he's been convinced to believe in.

And LOL @ most wars fought over religion, name me just 2 major wars that was fought over religion besides the Crusades. i can name you dozens that wasn't. I'd say no more than 5% of all wars man has knowledge of were fought over religion thats it.

You can't be talking to me, since I didn't say that most wars were fought over religion.

 

[Helena]

and this jesus bullshit is bullshit. my opinion, so please respect it like I respect yours.

aint nobody gonna respect u for callin it bullshit

 

[Jurhum]

does it explain what god is?
does it explain why premarital sex is wrong?
does it tell you where heaven and hell are?

Of course it tells about God.
It explains why premarital sex and adultery are wrong
It does say what heaven and hell are like. What to expect of them.

Also, Islam is open to many interpretations, which makes it possible to be used for brainwashing.

Tell me of an example.

LMAO yes. That's what a religious war is. A war caused by difference of religion.

No. Some of them were fought over territorial feuds.

Lol, this is good. It reminds me of this religious Christian girl I know. She thinks exactly like that and now she's having some kind of crisis because things have not been going the way she expected things to go for one of God's most devoted servants. She expects to be rewarded with riches and happiness for serving God so well and now she doesn't understand why it's taking so long. It's quite sad to me. She couldn't even entertain the notion that there's no God looking over her. The whole foundation of her life would fall apart, so I don't even try to chip away at her beliefs. She'd have nothing to replace it with that would satisfy the need.

It's clearly obvious that mankind is always hasty, wanting rewards without working hard for them. Or, wanting rewards the next day. That's not how it is in Islam. It's left up to God to decide when to reward his servants. Most of the time, we anticipate the rewards of the hereafter more than worldly rewards. You see, even the prophet himself would always pray but his prayers wouldn't be answered until after years. Some may have been answered after his death.

Just to give up saying God doesn't answer your prayer is completely foolish.

 

[Jurhum]

You're assuming that everyone who doesn't believe in God believes in Evolution. Any reason for this?

If you don't believe in God as the creator, then you certainly must believe in something that created us, no?

Religion tells you what's right and what's wrong, religion tells you how to live your life. There's no dusty old book or collection of outdated superstitions and rituals that tells the atheist how to live. The atheist is capable of thinking for himself. If the atheist agrees with Evolution, he's free to do so. He doesn't have to check a book written thousands of years ago to make sure that science doesn't contradict the infallible word of whichever God he's been convinced to believe in.

Of course, the holy books are manuals sent from the creator. Same with any other manual. Who else would know about our functions and what's good for us and what's bad than God himself? No one. That's why we live by the words of the creator.

You can't be talking to me, since I didn't say that most wars were fought over religion.

Since you didn't say that, then he most have not been talking to you, eh?

 

[TecK NeeX]

You're assuming that everyone who doesn't believe in God believes in Evolution. Any reason for this?

Nope never said all atheists believe in evolution, read it again i said it's one of the main contributor to Atheism. Atheism sky rocketed after darwins theory, you can't deny this fact.

Religion tells you what's right and what's wrong, religion tells you how to live your life. There's no dusty old book or collection of outdated superstitions and rituals that tells the atheist how to live. The atheist is capable of thinking for himself.

It's never dusty, I also think you're full of yourself if you're gonna sit there and tell me atheists rejection of God has nothing to do with what they've read and heard that made them question the existence of God.

If the atheist agrees with Evolution, he's free to do so.

If a religious person agrees with Islam, Christianity or Judaism he's free to do so, not forced, so what point are you trying to make?

He doesn't have to check a book written thousands of years ago to make sure that science doesn't contradict the infallible word of whichever God he's been convinced to believe in.

I never check the Qur'an to see if science contradicts it, science hasn't and never will.

 

[TecK NeeX]

If you don't believe in God as the creator, then you certainly must believe in something that created us, no?

Yes of course he does, Chance/coincidence/mistake created us. which just happens to be alot more "Logical" to him than a creator that creates.

 

[Rukas]

I dont think the general religious population is brainwashed. Religion is a choice, you can choose to believe it just like you can choose to believe Darwin, both leaps of faith. Its when people are stubborn and swear they are right and everyone else is wrong that they get labeled brainwashed. I prefer the term ignorant.

the Quran has been accepted as true, with no doubt as to the authenticity of what was written in it.

This is a perfect example. Accepted by whom? Muslims. Thus it can not possibly be an independent opinion or conclusion, thus closing yourself off from the outside world. This is why atheists will label you brainwashed, where as Ill just call you ignorant.


However, the same can be said for atheists who swear by science without even understanding it and who blindly believe Darwin's Theory. If they applied their same standards to themselves they would call themselves brainwashed, but because they are ignorant to the possibility of something else, they think they are 100% correct based on faith, the only difference is they believe their faith is fact, when in truth its just theory and faith, just like Islam, just like Christianity.

Its all faith, and a choice. Disregarding other people's choice and faith in favor of your own is brainwashed and ignorant.

 

[Jocka]

No. Some of them were fought over territorial feuds.

then it wasn't really a religious war, was it?

Yes of course he does, Chance/coincidence/mistake created us. which just happens to be alot more "Logical" to him than a creator that creates.

Who says he believes that? Maybe he chooses not to give a shit? Why does noone every think of that option? lol. Some people just don't care how we were created.
Btw, it is more logical that a mix of atoms combined at some point in time and created human and animal life. At least, it seems more logical that those that think about it. Does the bible tell you how God was created? No. And please don't reply with some shit like "he is the omega, he is time, he is blah blah blah" because I can just as easily say the same shit. If he could come from nothing, we could too. So whats the problem?

 

[Rukas]

Jurhum you really dont help your cause at all. Someone said Islam is open to interpretation and thus can be used for brainwashing. You said give me one example.

Need I remind you of the thread and discussion we had previously? You yourself said that Muslim's can misinterpret the Quran to justify murder. Dont back peddle now.

Dont tell me you forgot?

 

[Jokerman]

Religion is a choice, you can choose to believe it just like you can choose to believe Darwin, both leaps of faith.

...who blindly believe Darwin's Theory... when in truth its just theory and faith, just like Islam, just like Christianity.

Its all faith, and a choice.

Religious "beliefs" are not "theories," let alone scientific theories. It seems like you're equating the two. You can "believe" in a scientific theory, but that theory is usually based on some observed experience and/or based on the minimum number of (plausible) assumptions. Not so with religious beliefs.

Everything in science is a theory. Scientific facts that no one would doubt are nevertheless still theories, and always will be. Some scientific theories are better established than others. That’s the way science keeps an open mind. On the other hand, since religious beliefs are not theories, they are not open to adjustment.

Evolution is a fact as well as a theory. Just like gravity. There are theories of gravity, including those of Newton and Einstein. These theories can be right or wrong, complete or incomplete. But there is also the fact of gravity--when you drop something it falls. This fact remains whether the theories are right or wrong.

In just the same way, the record of the development of life from humble beginnings to the present complex biosphere is a fact that can be read in the fossil record. The ability of living things to mutate in response to environmental change can be seen in laboratories and in nature. Whether any of the current theories of evolution can or cannot explain this record doesn't change the fact of evolution. Whether everything Darwin said was right or wrong, does not change the theory/fact of evolution.

Believing in the correctness of the theory/fact of evolution is not the same as having faith in a religious belief. Anyone who does not understand that has not studied or understood the philosophy of science. Or else they have had water dropped on their heads one drop at a time for days on end. (Like all religious ppl have, of course. )

 

[Rukas]

Religious "beliefs" are not "theories," let alone scientific theories. It seems like you're equating the two. You can "believe" in a scientific theory, but that theory is usually based on some observed experience and/or based on the minimum number of (plausible) assumptions. Not so with religious beliefs.

It really doesn't matter, its all relevant, especially since people like Jurhum equate the Quran as fact. If someone believes something is fact, for example Jesus' virgin birth, then the belief is just as valid for them as believing in science. This isnt a discussion about what is right and wrong but rather about why certain people are deemed brainwashed, thus the factual validity of their belief is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is that they believe what they have faith in is based on fact, whether science or religion.

Everything in science is a theory. Scientific facts that no one would doubt are nevertheless still theories, and always will be. Some scientific theories are better established than others. That’s the way science keeps an open mind. On the other hand, since religious beliefs are not theories, they are not open to adjustment.

I dont think modern day science keeps as open a mind as people like to believe. The fact that Darwin is taught in schools as "this is how it happened" proves that. We were always told that humans evolved, this is the accepted truth, but it is nothing more than a theory, and one that really, is backed by very few hard facts.

To be honest, there is probably the same amount of evidence to support Jesus' life and death as there is to support Darwin's theory of evolution, yet as I said it is taught as scientific truth, that is not open minded.

As for religion not being open to adjustment, http://www.streethop.com/forum/thread150775.html

Evolution is a fact as well as a theory. Just like gravity. There are theories of gravity, including those of Newton and Einstein. These theories can be right or wrong, complete or incomplete. But there is also the fact of gravity--when you drop something it falls. This fact remains whether the theories are right or wrong.

That is the worst example ever. For one, we can see gravity and feel it. I for one have never seen evolution on the scale of what Darwin propsed. There is proof of gravity all around us, yet fossil records to not support evolution.

In just the same way, the record of the development of life from humble beginnings to the present complex biosphere is a fact that can be read in the fossil record.

Actually no, the fossil record does not show evidence of evolution, Darwin even knew this.

The ability of living things to mutate in response to environmental change can be seen in laboratories and in nature. Whether any of the current theories of evolution can or cannot explain this record doesn't change the fact of evolution. Whether everything Darwin said was right or wrong, does not change the theory/fact of evolution.

Adaptive evolution, or survival of the fittest, is totally different to evolution. Animals adapt to their environment, but remain the same animal, they do not evolve into another life form. The fossil records do not show any animal going from A to B, there is no evident bridge, as there should be if we slowly evolved over time.

 

[Jurhum]

Jurhum you really dont help your cause at all. Someone said Islam is open to interpretation and thus can be used for brainwashing. You said give me one example.

Need I remind you of the thread and discussion we had previously? You yourself said that Muslim's can misinterpret the Quran to justify murder. Dont back peddle now.

Dont tell me you forgot?

It is true the Qura'an could be twisted to fit some of those extremists views, but in no way does it mean they are correct. Plus, it's impossible to misinterpret the Quraan to justify murder. Impossible.

Let's go back to the topic.

 

[Khaled]

I dont think modern day science keeps as open a mind as people like to believe. The fact that Darwin is taught in schools as "this is how it happened" proves that. We were always told that humans evolved, this is the accepted truth, but it is nothing more than a theory, and one that really, is backed by very few hard facts.

To be honest, there is probably the same amount of evidence to support Jesus' life and death as there is to support Darwin's theory of evolution, yet as I said it is taught as scientific truth, that is not open minded.

That's not true, The mere fact that even in science books, it's called theory proves that it's flexible, and open minded. Actually, i remember that my science teacher himself said he didn't believe in it, but that it was based on evidence.

there's a principle that says: all things being equal, the easiest explanation tends to be the right one.
which means the thery that has the less flaws in it, is more likely to be closer to the truth.

That is the worst example ever. For one, we can see gravity and feel it. I for one have never seen evolution on the scale of what Darwin propsed. There is proof of gravity all around us, yet fossil records to not support evolution.

actually, it has been proven that gravity is the same as sitting in an accelerating car. and gravity as defined by Newton has been proven to be wrong with Einstein's special and general relativity, but it's still beng taught because "it works" on some small schales.

also you might not have seen evolutions, but you also haven't seen jesus, or adam and eve... on the one hand, you have a perfecty valid theory which is supported by some evidence, on the other hand, you have one old book that's telling you what to think?

the idea that science is and has been admitted as truth is totally wrong. The main point of science is to find a theory that works, until someone comes out with a theory that works even better and disproves the old one. This is how it has been working for years.

Religion, on the other hand, does not keep an open mind. It admits events as truth, and leaves no way to doubt. I think that in order to know something, the first thing you have to admit is that you don't know. Belief is actually the opposite of knowlege.

Adaptive evolution, or survival of the fittest, is totally different to evolution. Animals adapt to their environment, but remain the same animal, they do not evolve into another life form. The fossil records do not show any animal going from A to B, there is no evident bridge, as there should be if we slowly evolved over time.

not true, adaptive evolution assumes that creatures genetically evolve a lot faster into other forms, but survival of the fittest allows just the strongest/most likely to survive animals to remain, whereas other genetically evolved creatures disappear. Adaptive evolution allows to explain the fact that the animals of the latest evolution stages are better/more advanced/more perfect than the animals in the beginning stages.



also, when i said that the Quran is admitted as fact, what i meant is that what's written in the Quran is exactly what was said by the prophet. (i didn't mean that it contained al accurate information).


as far as the Quran being open to interpretations, the suicide bomber doing it fot jihad is a perfect example. other examples include the use of the Quran to force people to vote for a specific leaders as a divine duty. If that s not brainwashing, nothing is.


Also, the best example for brainwashing is this.
a lot of people in christianity ask their priests about right or wrong, and what to do, and most of them can read the bible on their own.
how come people who are religious would rathter listen to a priest tell tem what to do, rather than make their own mind based on their knowledge of the bible?

 

[Illuminattile]

Nope never said all atheists believe in evolution, read it again i said it's one of the main contributor to Atheism. Atheism sky rocketed after darwins theory, you can't deny this fact.

Atheism was riding the wave of the Age of Enlightenment, a move away from mysticism and towards reason. Are you surprised that as people started to look at the world with a scientific eye that they began to reject religion?

It's never dusty, I also think you're full of yourself if you're gonna sit there and tell me atheists rejection of God has nothing to do with what they've read and heard that made them question the existence of God.

I became an atheist the first time I actually sat down and thought about the idea of a God. My parents didn't raise me as an atheist, nobody handed me a book and said "read this, it'll change your mind".

If a religious person agrees with Islam, Christianity or Judaism he's free to do so, not forced, so what point are you trying to make?

If someone is religious, then they are incapable of questioning what their particular religion says. You can't question something in the Qu'ran, because you think it is the infallible word of God. For most people of faith, nothing you put before them could make them question their religion. They will always find a way to "interpret" their religion's teachings to make it fit the facts.

I never check the Qur'an to see if science contradicts it, science hasn't and never will.

See what I mean?

However, the same can be said for atheists who swear by science without even understanding it and who blindly believe Darwin's Theory. If they applied their same standards to themselves they would call themselves brainwashed, but because they are ignorant to the possibility of something else, they think they are 100% correct based on faith, the only difference is they believe their faith is fact, when in truth its just theory and faith, just like Islam, just like Christianity.

The difference being, science is open to revision. A key tenet of scientific theory is that it is falsifiable. Scientists constantly review and replace theories. Scientists theorised that the world was flat. Scientists proved them wrong and offered a new theory. Nobody says "Evolution is 100% correct, regardless of what is discovered in the future".

 

[Rukas]

That's not true, The mere fact that even in science books, it's called theory proves that it's flexible, and open minded. Actually, i remember that my science teacher himself said he didn't believe in it, but that it was based on evidence.

It is true, ask the majority of people that believe in evolution if it is fact and they will tell you it is, thats how it is taught and portrayed in the media.

there's a principle that says: all things being equal, the easiest explanation tends to be the right one.
which means the thery that has the less flaws in it, is more likely to be closer to the truth.

True, but evolution is far from flawless or simple, or even probable. The airplane being built out of a hurricane in a scrap yard comparison springs to mind.

actually, it has been proven that gravity is the same as sitting in an accelerating car. and gravity as defined by Newton has been proven to be wrong with Einstein's special and general relativity, but it's still beng taught because "it works" on some small schales.

Newton wasnt wrong, he just didnt understand the full concept of gravity.

also you might not have seen evolutions, but you also haven't seen jesus, or adam and eve... on the one hand, you have a perfecty valid theory which is supported by some evidence, on the other hand, you have one old book that's telling you what to think?

Now here is where you, as a debater, fall flat on your ass.

When did I ever state that I believe those old books over a scientific theory? What exactly are you trying to debate here, certainly not the facts or what I actually said, because I never said that.

But seeing as you said it, let me counter what you said, instead of going off on different tangents like you just did to me.

You say the theory is supported by some evidence. Well, Jesus is supported by some evidence as well, there is evidence of his existence.

But, let me stress that my discussion was totally objective and I did not lean to one side, so why pin a side on me?

the idea that science is and has been admitted as truth is totally wrong. The main point of science is to find a theory that works, until someone comes out with a theory that works even better and disproves the old one. This is how it has been working for years.

Yes, but science really isnt on trial here, the question was why are believers "brainwashed" and I stated that scientific believers are just as "brainwashed," sure that does not apply to all of them, but neither does it apply to all religious men. We are simply discussing the ones we deem to be brainwashed, and as I stated, a lot of people, even some on here, believe evolution and other theories on blind faith, yet dont really understand it, and look down on religious individuals.

Heck, there are even atheists that think the idea of a God is laughable yet they believe in ghosts and aliens, because they someone seem sci-fi and in some peoples minds sci-fi = science.

Religion, on the other hand, does not keep an open mind. It admits events as truth, and leaves no way to doubt. I think that in order to know something, the first thing you have to admit is that you don't know. Belief is actually the opposite of knowlege.

Wrong.
http://www.streethop.com/forum/thread150775.html

RELIGION does not do that, Islam does, not all Religion.

not true, adaptive evolution assumes that creatures genetically evolve a lot faster into other forms, but survival of the fittest allows just the strongest/most likely to survive animals to remain, whereas other genetically evolved creatures disappear. Adaptive evolution allows to explain the fact that the animals of the latest evolution stages are better/more advanced/more perfect than the animals in the beginning stages.

Same difference, the adaptively evolved animals by your own admission are "better/more advanced/more perfect" and thus fitter. Survival of the fittest. This still doest explain evolutionist creation.

also, when i said that the Quran is admitted as fact, what i meant is that what's written in the Quran is exactly what was said by the prophet. (i didn't mean that it contained al accurate information).

Ask Jurhum and other Muslims and they will tell you it is fact. Also, who knows it was said by the prophet?

as far as the Quran being open to interpretations, the suicide bomber doing it fot jihad is a perfect example. other examples include the use of the Quran to force people to vote for a specific leaders as a divine duty. If that s not brainwashing, nothing is.

Very true, I agree with you there.

Also, the best example for brainwashing is this.
a lot of people in christianity ask their priests about right or wrong, and what to do, and most of them can read the bible on their own.
how come people who are religious would rathter listen to a priest tell tem what to do, rather than make their own mind based on their knowledge of the bible?

Thats a silly question. The answer is that they want to speak to someone else and get someone elses expert opinion. Just like other people go to psychiatrists.

 

[Rukas]

The difference being, science is open to revision. A key tenet of scientific theory is that it is falsifiable. Scientists constantly review and replace theories. Scientists theorised that the world was flat. Scientists proved them wrong and offered a new theory. Nobody says "Evolution is 100% correct, regardless of what is discovered in the future".

A lot of religious people do that too, I do, and the Catholic Church is beginning too, and has to some extent done it in the past (its not like its new, they have admitted to mistakes in the past) and other Christian churches have done so too.

And I understand that, I am a man of science as well, however, we are not debating scientists, we are debating people. If this was a debate about priests vs scientists what you said would be valid, but I was under the impression we were talking about the average believer, and the fact is, the average believer, whether a believer in God, Allah, or Science, does so on blind faith.

 

[Illuminattile]

A lot of religious people do that too, I do, and the Catholic Church is beginning too, and has to some extent done it in the past (its not like its new, they have admitted to mistakes in the past) and other Christian churches have done so too.

The Church isn't admitting that what's written in the Bible is wrong, they're just saying that it's not meant to be taken literally.

And I understand that, I am a man of science as well, however, we are not debating scientists, we are debating people. If this was a debate about priests vs scientists what you said would be valid, but I was under the impression we were talking about the average believer, and the fact is, the average believer, whether a believer in God, Allah, or Science, does so on blind faith.

But the believers in science have faith in the system that I described. I put my faith in a group of people who try to further the understanding of the world. Everyone has to believe in things that they themselves cannot actually go out and test. The difference is, the beliefs of religions are set in stone, they are absolute. Everything else has to either fit in with what a book says otherwise they're discarded.

 

[Khaled]

It is true, ask the majority of people that believe in evolution if it is fact and they will tell you it is, thats how it is taught and portrayed in the media.


True, but evolution is far from flawless or simple, or even probable. The airplane being built out of a hurricane in a scrap yard comparison springs to mind.

right, but if a new theory appears that is more realistic with more evidence than evolution, people (the majority at least) will drop evolution and state the new theory as a fact. but i find it hard to believe that all christans/muslims/jews will drop their religious beliefs for any reasons (it's only possible on an individual level, but a new world event will not make them stop believing)

Newton wasnt wrong, he just didnt understand the full concept of gravity.

gravity theory, when applied to a large enough schale, will give wrong results far froom reality

Yes, but science really isnt on trial here, the question was why are believers "brainwashed" and I stated that scientific believers are just as "brainwashed," sure that does not apply to all of them, but neither does it apply to all religious men. We are simply discussing the ones we deem to be brainwashed, and as I stated, a lot of people, even some on here, believe evolution and other theories on blind faith, yet dont really understand it, and look down on religious individuals.

people tend to trust people who claim to have evidence, as long as they know that this evidence is at their disposal. if someone doesn't believe in evolution, he can try to understand it, learn about it, and make up his own mind. Whether he does it or not is a different question. Religion on the other hand, specifically asks for faith, and religious people in general will blame anyone who asks for evidence for religious things.

Heck, there are even atheists that think the idea of a God is laughable yet they believe in ghosts and aliens, because they someone seem sci-fi and in some peoples minds sci-fi = science.

sci-fi = science fiction
i don't think people who believe in aliens do so the same way religious people believe in God.
people who claim that aliens exist, as well as those who claim that they don't, are both doing the same mistake of "believing".
again, those who believe blindly in aliens are wrong. But those who do so based on non credible evidence (which is the case most of the time) can be convinced otherwise.
i think the best attitude towards this is:" i don t know"
and i would agree with anyone who, when asked about god, admits not to know.
but as i said, religion asks people to believe no matter what, and i think that not believing in god is a sin according to some religion.
i think also that the ideas of alien existence is much more credible that that of God. And the same way, i know a lot of people who believe in god, but find the iea of alien existance laughable.

Wrong.
http://www.streethop.com/forum/thread150775.html

doesn't prove anything. Until the next time the church chooses to adjust some info from the bible, believer are still bound to accept this "new edition".
In addition, the mere fact that the church can change what people believe is also in argument for brainwashing. Why wasn't this done long time ago??

RELIGION does not do that, Islam does, not all Religion.

doesn't judaism and christianity require faith?
on the other hand, islam is robably the religion that has had the most interpretations (there are so many confessions within islam)

Same difference, the adaptively evolved animals by your own admission are "better/more advanced/more perfect" and thus fitter. Survival of the fittest. This still doest explain evolutionist creation

it was not meant to, it's just a valid theory that completes evolution and explain some parts of it. There are however several examples of this for creatures that appeared or disappeared recently.

Ask Jurhum and other Muslims and they will tell you it is fact.

(isn't that supposed to be my argument??????)

who knows it was said by the prophet?

historically, no one was entitled to change the Quran, this is why unlike the bible, there s only one version.

Thats a silly question. The answer is that they want to speak to someone else and get someone elses expert opinion. Just like other people go to psychiatrists.

ÿou can check the qualifications and the degrees of a psychiatrist, can you do the same with a priest?
again, if the pope says something, religious christians will immediately accept it as a truth. But if Stephen Hawkings comes out with a theory, he is expected to back it up with evidence.

 

[Rukas]

The Church isn't admitting that what's written in the Bible is wrong, they're just saying that it's not meant to be taken literally.


But the believers in science have faith in the system that I described. I put my faith in a group of people who try to further the understanding of the world. Everyone has to believe in things that they themselves cannot actually go out and test. The difference is, the beliefs of religions are set in stone, they are absolute. Everything else has to either fit in with what a book says otherwise they're discarded.

You just said that the church admits some of the book isnt meant to be taken literally so how can it be set in stone?

 

[rtyfghvbn]

to answer the thread-starter's original question ('cause i sorta got confused within the three pages of arguing and debating), as an atheist, i don't feel that all theists are brainwashed. you have every right to believe in any god you want.

however, ON YOUR OWN TERMS.

religion is not meant to brainwash. ORGANIZED RELIGION is meant to brainwash. by becoming a christian/jew/muslim/hindu/whatever....you are required to accept ALL beliefs of that religion.

let's use catholicism for example. you could be a person that believes in jesus. you believe in the father, you believe in the son, and you believe in the holy spirit. you believe you should help your fellow man, and all the rest of that jazz.

however, you're pro-choice. you feel abortion is acceptable. you feel that a child should not be brought into this world if you are not certain that they will have the best life you can give them.

well, in today's day and age, you have every right to get an abortion. in some places, you can get it free. so what's the problem?

the problem is, now, you're going to hell. or so says the catholic religion. and because of this fear....this....threat of eternal damnation, one may just choose to not get an abortion. one may instead decide to have a child. a child that they either need to give up for adoption, where the child will face an orphaned life, or keep the child, where the child may have to be raised by parent(s) that are not ready to be parents.

and that is religious brainwashing. WHEN YOU LET A 5,000 YEAR OLD LIST OF RULES AND LAWS GOVERN EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR VERY EXISTENCE, THAT IS BRAINWASHING. especially when they're method of governing is by instilling fear.

then, there are also the people who are brainwashed from childhood. by their parents. it's just like learning a language. if your parents teach you english, you're going to speak english. and if your parents teach you muslim, you're going to believe in islam.

whereas, on the other hand, had you had jewish parents, you would believe in the teachings of the hebrew religion.

and in either case, you would swear that your religion is right, and the other one is wrong.

when you simply accept a religion without analyzing that religion, looking at the facts, and COMPARING IT TO OTHER RELIGIONS, you are being brainwashed. believe me. i did not simply become an atheist. my parents were both catholic. they attempted to raise me catholic. but i read the bible. i read the old testament, i read the new testament. front to back. i read all of darwin's theories. i read the big bang theories. i read extraterrestrial origin theories. i read teachings by buddha, and i read teachings by allah. and i kept reading. and then, i examined them all, compared their assumed validity, and made my desicion.

you can very well do the same thing. if you examine other options, and decide to stick with religion, then you have every right to do so. i won't call you brainwashed for believing in a god.

just don't call me brainwashed for not believing.