anyone hear the story about the college teacher who compared 9-11 victems to nazi's?
- Thread starter Butt Rubber
- Start date
All he's doing is repeating the old, tired argument that the US is responsible for the terrorists (or the Muslim world) hating us. But what he's doing is taking that to it's extreme conclusion that therefore, being American citizens, the 9/11 victims represented their country and so were responsible, like every US citizen, for the terrorists' anger, and therefore, deserved to die. Which is basically bin Laden's argument. Only, this guy is saying this just be controversial and stand out. That's what I find most pathetic about him. He can have his opinions, but don't be sensational and offend grieving ppl just to promote yourself as some daring critic.
ever considered that he truly feels that way? I was banned from another forum for agreeing with KRS-One a few months ago when it was reported that KRS-One said he "Cheered when the towers fell"( http://www.allhiphop.com/editorial/?ID=218 ).
I believe that since we live in a Republic citizens must share some of the responsibility for our elected and unelected officials actions. Citizens should want for the true nature and sprit of America projected upon the world, rather then just the Greed of the Global-economic super power. as I woke up to see the towers on fire I was like "Whoa this is the site of my generation", the Neil Armstrong, The D-Day, of our time. as I learned who was responsible and why they attacked I was happy that the issue was brought to a unparallel audience, I had hoped that others would question USA's foreign Policy and realize the American way is and should not be the only way. oh how I could get no more wrong, we are now living in a ultra-Patriot society where to even think of Dissension brings cries of treason.
As for the Ward Churchill situation, I really don't understand why he is not entitled to his view. I thought that was one of the stand out's of America the "Freedom of speech"? it is almost funny to me that so many of or so called Inalienable rights come with conditions. I find it appalling that the Governor and other republicans are calling for his resignation, I think education needs to have variety, you can not progress with indoctrination. Einstein was such an amazing thinker cause he did not bind himself to conventional ways of thinking he looked for new ways of looking at things to come to new conclusions.
with that said I need to point out I have not read Ward Churchill's essay so there may be things in it that even I find objectionable yet I highly doubt it. I do plan on reading it soon and if you would like to as well here is a link.
http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?...MPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf
I believe that since we live in a Republic citizens must share some of the responsibility for our elected and unelected officials actions. Citizens should want for the true nature and sprit of America projected upon the world, rather then just the Greed of the Global-economic super power. as I woke up to see the towers on fire I was like "Whoa this is the site of my generation", the Neil Armstrong, The D-Day, of our time. as I learned who was responsible and why they attacked I was happy that the issue was brought to a unparallel audience, I had hoped that others would question USA's foreign Policy and realize the American way is and should not be the only way. oh how I could get no more wrong, we are now living in a ultra-Patriot society where to even think of Dissension brings cries of treason.
As for the Ward Churchill situation, I really don't understand why he is not entitled to his view. I thought that was one of the stand out's of America the "Freedom of speech"? it is almost funny to me that so many of or so called Inalienable rights come with conditions. I find it appalling that the Governor and other republicans are calling for his resignation, I think education needs to have variety, you can not progress with indoctrination. Einstein was such an amazing thinker cause he did not bind himself to conventional ways of thinking he looked for new ways of looking at things to come to new conclusions.
with that said I need to point out I have not read Ward Churchill's essay so there may be things in it that even I find objectionable yet I highly doubt it. I do plan on reading it soon and if you would like to as well here is a link.
http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?...MPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf
Freedom of speech means that saying things like that cannot be prohibited, it doesn't mean they cannot be punished. I think someone who comes out with something as disrespectful and offensive as that should have no complaints over being fired. If institutions cannot take action over comments like this, then they should be allowed to take action over racist comments, should they? If he'd compared those who died in the Tsunami to Nazis would you be supporting him? Or those who were sold into slavery?
1) show me a direct quote that he compaired them to Nazis, I live in colorado and the story is huge here. yet I do not recall hearing the Nazi thing.(you could be compleatly right but you should know how fast things get twisted out of context.)
2) who is to judge if something is "Disrespectful and offensive"? anything could be "Disrespectful" in the eyes of someone else.
3) CU has the right to Fire Churchill, but in my view it is sad day when a institue of higher education is willing to fire someone over a contravisial essay, I think it is great that he at least is brining about some further consideration of the events that lead up to 9-11. to just write off how the "Terrorists" Feel is ignorant and is why there will never be true peace, you can not force peace. people need to take others feelings into deeper consideration.
I mean people do physical things that actully harm others and don't lose there job.
2) who is to judge if something is "Disrespectful and offensive"? anything could be "Disrespectful" in the eyes of someone else.
3) CU has the right to Fire Churchill, but in my view it is sad day when a institue of higher education is willing to fire someone over a contravisial essay, I think it is great that he at least is brining about some further consideration of the events that lead up to 9-11. to just write off how the "Terrorists" Feel is ignorant and is why there will never be true peace, you can not force peace. people need to take others feelings into deeper consideration.
I mean people do physical things that actully harm others and don't lose there job.
well heres the thing, if YOU happened to be near the towers when they fell and died as a result, would you think that YOU deserved it? after all, you are a US citizen and you must share some responsability for our elected and unelected officials' actions.
i disagree that the victims of 9/11 deserved to die, and i think you would too if you were one of the people who was unlucky enough just to happen to have been walking by the towers at teh time that it happened.............HOWEVER i agree that we do have to take some responsability for our elected officials, especially those of us who do not excersize our right to vote. there are people on this board who are like "well im not gonna vote at all cause either way the illuminati will take over everything". with that attitude you will never get anywhere, and you have no right to complain about bush if you dont excersize your right to vote against him. its funny, because all of the overly patriotic people can stick together and vote for bush, and thats why he gets elected. because those of us who are more critical of this country are scattered all over the place and disgustingly un-divided. some of us voted for kerry, some of us voted for nader, while others didnt even bother to vote at all because of some crazy reason or just out of plain laziness...so in my opinion, its not the people who vote for bush that are to blame for any mistakes that bush may or may not have made, its the ones who critisized him, yet didnt even bother to vote against him. kerry may be "the lesser of 2 evils", but sometimes the lesser of 2 evils can make all the difference in the world, especially for those of us who are actually affected by the issues and policies. and if you still didnt want to vote for kerry then you should have atleast voted for nader or SOMEONE, because even if they dont win itll still make them look stronger if they got a good chunk of votes and itll help third party candidates strength for future elections.
i disagree that the victims of 9/11 deserved to die, and i think you would too if you were one of the people who was unlucky enough just to happen to have been walking by the towers at teh time that it happened.............HOWEVER i agree that we do have to take some responsability for our elected officials, especially those of us who do not excersize our right to vote. there are people on this board who are like "well im not gonna vote at all cause either way the illuminati will take over everything". with that attitude you will never get anywhere, and you have no right to complain about bush if you dont excersize your right to vote against him. its funny, because all of the overly patriotic people can stick together and vote for bush, and thats why he gets elected. because those of us who are more critical of this country are scattered all over the place and disgustingly un-divided. some of us voted for kerry, some of us voted for nader, while others didnt even bother to vote at all because of some crazy reason or just out of plain laziness...so in my opinion, its not the people who vote for bush that are to blame for any mistakes that bush may or may not have made, its the ones who critisized him, yet didnt even bother to vote against him. kerry may be "the lesser of 2 evils", but sometimes the lesser of 2 evils can make all the difference in the world, especially for those of us who are actually affected by the issues and policies. and if you still didnt want to vote for kerry then you should have atleast voted for nader or SOMEONE, because even if they dont win itll still make them look stronger if they got a good chunk of votes and itll help third party candidates strength for future elections.
1) if I was in or around the Towers or pentagon( wich I must add is a great and legitament military target) I surely would not want to die as a result of that, yet at the same time I would hope I could still look at it objectively to see it for what it truely was.
2) to say they "desirved to die" is a bit much I will admit that, it is more like I understand why they died and hoped there deaths would wake people up to see the evil Amarica has done to the rest of the world.
3) As for the whole voting thing by and large I agree, yet I also see how our democratic system is flawed and corupt. not sure it is the "Illuminati"(not sure it is not) that is pulling the strings but surely the wealthy stick together to achive common goals with the interest on profit over everything else.
P.S. The whole "What if it was you" shit is not a stronge argument it only detracts from the real issue! anyone can play that game!
What if it was you that watched your family die and suffer because of sanctions imposed on Iraq by USA?
"
They claim that I'm violent, just cause I refuse to be silent
These hypocrites are havin fits, cause I'm not buyin it
Defyin it, envious because I will rebel against
any oppressor, and this is known as self defense
I show no mercy, they claim that I'm the lunatic
But when the shit gets thick, I'm the one you go and get
Don't look confused, the truth is so plain to see
Cause I'm the nigga that you sell-outs are ashamed to be
In every Jeep and every car, brothers stomp this
I'm Never Ignorant, Getting Goals Accomplished
The underground railroad on an uprise
This time the truth's gettin told, heard enough lies
I told em fight back, attack on society
If this is violence, then violent's what I gotta be
If you investigate you'll find out where it's comin from
Look through our history, America's the violent one
Unlock my brain, break the chains of your misery
This time the payback for evil shit you did to me
They call me militant, racist cause I will resist
You wanna censor somethin, motherfucker censor this!
My words are weapons, and I'm steppin to the silent
Wakin up the masses, but you, claim that I'm violent"
2) to say they "desirved to die" is a bit much I will admit that, it is more like I understand why they died and hoped there deaths would wake people up to see the evil Amarica has done to the rest of the world.
3) As for the whole voting thing by and large I agree, yet I also see how our democratic system is flawed and corupt. not sure it is the "Illuminati"(not sure it is not) that is pulling the strings but surely the wealthy stick together to achive common goals with the interest on profit over everything else.
P.S. The whole "What if it was you" shit is not a stronge argument it only detracts from the real issue! anyone can play that game!
What if it was you that watched your family die and suffer because of sanctions imposed on Iraq by USA?
"
They claim that I'm violent, just cause I refuse to be silent
These hypocrites are havin fits, cause I'm not buyin it
Defyin it, envious because I will rebel against
any oppressor, and this is known as self defense
I show no mercy, they claim that I'm the lunatic
But when the shit gets thick, I'm the one you go and get
Don't look confused, the truth is so plain to see
Cause I'm the nigga that you sell-outs are ashamed to be
In every Jeep and every car, brothers stomp this
I'm Never Ignorant, Getting Goals Accomplished
The underground railroad on an uprise
This time the truth's gettin told, heard enough lies
I told em fight back, attack on society
If this is violence, then violent's what I gotta be
If you investigate you'll find out where it's comin from
Look through our history, America's the violent one
Unlock my brain, break the chains of your misery
This time the payback for evil shit you did to me
They call me militant, racist cause I will resist
You wanna censor somethin, motherfucker censor this!
My words are weapons, and I'm steppin to the silent
Wakin up the masses, but you, claim that I'm violent"
Remember, he wrote this essay the day after 9/11.
"To the extent that any of them (ppl in the towers) were unaware of the costs and consequences to others of what they were involved in – and in many cases excelling at – it was because of their absolute refusal to see. More likely, it was because they were too busy braying, incessantly and self-importantly, into their cell phones, arranging power lunches and stock transactions, each of which translated, conveniently out of sight, mind and smelling distance, into the starved and rotting flesh of infants. If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it."
(Eichmann was an SS Lieutenant-Colonel who was Chief of the Jewish Office of the Gestapo during World War II and implemented the "Final Solution" which aimed at the total extermination of European Jewry.)
So he's saying the ppl in the towers were the equivalent of that man. Were the cleaning people, for instance, arranging power lunches and stock transactions? The cops and firemen?
By the way, he just resigned his teaching job as a result of the controversy. Sure, why would he need it. Lots of places will soon pay him to speak or publish a book. I think we should send him to Iraq and let him get beheaded.
"To the extent that any of them (ppl in the towers) were unaware of the costs and consequences to others of what they were involved in – and in many cases excelling at – it was because of their absolute refusal to see. More likely, it was because they were too busy braying, incessantly and self-importantly, into their cell phones, arranging power lunches and stock transactions, each of which translated, conveniently out of sight, mind and smelling distance, into the starved and rotting flesh of infants. If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it."
(Eichmann was an SS Lieutenant-Colonel who was Chief of the Jewish Office of the Gestapo during World War II and implemented the "Final Solution" which aimed at the total extermination of European Jewry.)
So he's saying the ppl in the towers were the equivalent of that man. Were the cleaning people, for instance, arranging power lunches and stock transactions? The cops and firemen?
By the way, he just resigned his teaching job as a result of the controversy. Sure, why would he need it. Lots of places will soon pay him to speak or publish a book. I think we should send him to Iraq and let him get beheaded.
i agree that the democratic system is DEFINETLY flawed (in my opinion atleast), and yes there is also corruption in the government. one problem i have though is that when people on this board claim that the democrats and republicans are on the same side and no matter who you vote for you get the same outcome. that may be true as far as SOME matters go, but CERTAINLY not all. first of all you have stem cell research, i believe that if Gore had been elected 5 years ago there is a chance the Christopher Reeves could be alive today because gore would have aloud stem cell research. and its not like im a huge christopher reeves fan but thats just an example of one person that it may have affected that many people are familiar with, the election of bush over gore probably had a substantial affect on the lives of MANY people who were either suffereing from paralysis, parkinsins disease (sp?) and many other conditions...now im not saying whether or not i approve of stem cell research, but thats one big issue that caused the election to have an affect on people's lives. there are many other issues but it would take me forever to get into all of them......................but ALSO if the republicans and democrats are really working together then why was Nixon basically forced to resign for spying on the democrats? it ruined his legacy.....and why did the republicans try so hard to ruin Clinton's legacy by getting him impeached? fact of the matter is, there is corruption within both the democratic and republican party...but then again they are parties run by human beings so of course some of them will be corrupt (although i admit there is more corruption than there should be), but fact of the matter is that although some issues may not be affected whether a democrat is in office or a republican is in office, there are some issues that will DEFINETLY be affected, why do you think all these talk show hosts like bill o'reily were so passionate about the elections??? it IS a BIG DEAL, and whether or not illuminati exists doesnt change the fact that it DOES matter who you vote for, and if we as americans dont want to do the research to see why this matters then i suppose we don't deserve to be able to choose our government....and as far as the wealthy people working together goes, yeah unfortunately there are many wealthy people who are greedy and have forgotten or dont care what its like to be poor, but i suppose that should just inspire us to make something more of ourselves like 2pac did 
(im using him as an example cause i figured everyone in here would know who he is haha)
haha well i mean its true anyone can play that game, but it makes sense, like that song "what would you do" with city high, forces you to look at things from a different perspective....................as far what would i do if i had to watch my family suffer because of the US sanctions??? man i'd be pissed! i never supported the sanctions or said that the iraqi people deserved them, the people in iraq didnt deserve those sanctions, and the people in the US didnt deserve 9/11..........................and btw ive agreed with a lot of things you've said before so dont think im just taking shots at every view and belief that you have
back to the main topic...i havent heard much about this story but it seems like this guy has taken things to such an extreme that he shouldnt be surprised if he gets fired since he probably just offended about 98% of the student body of the school he teaches at, these people are PAYING to go to this school so if they dont like it then it would be a terrible business move to keep him on staff
(im using him as an example cause i figured everyone in here would know who he is haha)haha well i mean its true anyone can play that game, but it makes sense, like that song "what would you do" with city high, forces you to look at things from a different perspective....................as far what would i do if i had to watch my family suffer because of the US sanctions??? man i'd be pissed! i never supported the sanctions or said that the iraqi people deserved them, the people in iraq didnt deserve those sanctions, and the people in the US didnt deserve 9/11..........................and btw ive agreed with a lot of things you've said before so dont think im just taking shots at every view and belief that you have
back to the main topic...i havent heard much about this story but it seems like this guy has taken things to such an extreme that he shouldnt be surprised if he gets fired since he probably just offended about 98% of the student body of the school he teaches at, these people are PAYING to go to this school so if they dont like it then it would be a terrible business move to keep him on staff
1) the fact that he wrote this four years ago I think speaks of how bullshit this whole story is, why just now is it a big deal?
2) I often hear how "War is a horrible thing some times the innocent must die" to justify innocent Iraqi's being killed, so I will play that card here. sure maybe there was virtually innocent people where killed, yet that is the way of war is it not? to single out a few innocent people that suffered to say they where all innocent is just silly in my book.
3) I really hope the beheading comment is your sad attempt at humor? and the only thing that makes it funny is the irony for you to make such a comment in this topic which is about someone saying they deserve to die. you should lose your job buddy! lol
4) sure he stepped down as a teacher? last I heard he just stepped down form director of the department he was head of.
2) I often hear how "War is a horrible thing some times the innocent must die" to justify innocent Iraqi's being killed, so I will play that card here. sure maybe there was virtually innocent people where killed, yet that is the way of war is it not? to single out a few innocent people that suffered to say they where all innocent is just silly in my book.
3) I really hope the beheading comment is your sad attempt at humor? and the only thing that makes it funny is the irony for you to make such a comment in this topic which is about someone saying they deserve to die. you should lose your job buddy! lol
4) sure he stepped down as a teacher? last I heard he just stepped down form director of the department he was head of.
garvey0 said:
i agree that the democratic system is DEFINETLY flawed (in my opinion atleast), and yes there is also corruption in the government. one problem i have though is that when people on this board claim that the democrats and republicans are on the same side and no matter who you vote for you get the same outcome. that may be true as far as SOME matters go, but CERTAINLY not all. first of all you have stem cell research, i believe that if Gore had been elected 5 years ago there is a chance the Christopher Reeves could be alive today because gore would have aloud stem cell research. and its not like im a huge christopher reeves fan but thats just an example of one person that it may have affected that many people are familiar with, the election of bush over gore probably had a substantial affect on the lives of MANY people who were either suffereing from paralysis, parkinsins disease (sp?) and many other conditions...now im not saying whether or not i approve of stem cell research, but thats one big issue that caused the election to have an affect on people's lives. there are many other issues but it would take me forever to get into all of them......................but ALSO if the republicans and democrats are really working together then why was Nixon basically forced to resign for spying on the democrats? it ruined his legacy.....and why did the republicans try so hard to ruin Clinton's legacy by getting him impeached? fact of the matter is, there is corruption within both the democratic and republican party...but then again they are parties run by human beings so of course some of them will be corrupt (although i admit there is more corruption than there should be), but fact of the matter is that although some issues may not be affected whether a democrat is in office or a republican is in office, there are some issues that will DEFINETLY be affected, why do you think all these talk show hosts like bill o'reily were so passionate about the elections??? it IS a BIG DEAL, and whether or not illuminati exists doesnt change the fact that it DOES matter who you vote for, and if we as americans dont want to do the research to see why this matters then i suppose we don't deserve to be able to choose our government....and as far as the wealthy people working together goes, yeah unfortunately there are many wealthy people who are greedy and have forgotten or dont care what its like to be poor, but i suppose that should just inspire us to make something more of ourselves like 2pac did (im using him as an example cause i figured everyone in here would know who he is haha)
(im using him as an example cause i figured everyone in here would know who he is haha)
you made some great points, I agree that there are many issues that are effected by who is in power. yet many things that effect us a great deal fall in the hands of lobbyists for the big corporations. that is my major problem that many times it all comes back to money
garvey0 said:
haha well i mean its true anyone can play that game, but it makes sense, like that song "what would you do" with city high, forces you to look at things from a different perspective....................as far what would i do if i had to watch my family suffer because of the US sanctions??? man i'd be pissed! i never supported the sanctions or said that the iraqi people deserved them, the people in iraq didnt deserve those sanctions, and the people in the US didnt deserve 9/11..........................and btw ive agreed with a lot of things you've said before so dont think im just taking shots at every view and belief that you have
I really doubt he offended 98% I will agree to a majority however. but really what is so offensive? do they not have the right to form and voice there own opinion if they agree or disagree? I would hope that Ward Churchill would welcome a discourse on his ideas.
"only a state can declare war" you and ATI_RAGE_ are like peas in a pod.
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