Technology Android

[dilla]

I think it's a mix of people not needing to upgrade as often mixed with people going for mid-rangers that are simply almost as good as the flagships these days. The latter is especially true outside of North America.
When you think about it, several-year-old devices were never as similar to newest flagships, and so are the newest mid-rangers. Like we discussed several times already, there aren't many reasons to upgrade anymore, and people are slowly catching up with the fact that their iPhone 6S or 7 (that traditionally would be due for an upgrade) does exactly the same things that a new XR or XS would, and actually does them perfectly well. Why spend a grand then?

Not just in terms of hardware or iPhones that have been more than good enough for a few generations now, but if your Android phone is not supported anymore, that's not even something that people care about anymore, as newer software versions bring nothing new that's worth anyone's attention as well. There's nothing exciting happening making people want to have it - just slow progression and slightly better reiterations of the same things.

By the way, the drama of Qualcomm working with the Chinese government to ban iPhone sales in China is hilarious. Surprisingly, they might have a shot considering the political climate and the fact that Apple is the largest (and now rather unwanted) competitor to Huaweii, Xiaomi and Oppo in China.
They actually banned the iPhone X and 8 already. Now they're working to ban the XR, XS and XS Max, so pretty much all iPhones that are still being sold. The way I see it, either Apple backs down and pays Qualcomm the big money that they're asking for, or Qualcomm and the Chinese makers will be very happy as Apple does get indeed banned there.

https://www.gsmarena.com/qualcomm_ban_iphone_xs_iphone_xr_china-news-34701.php

If I'm not mistaken, Qualcomm is what allows the usage of CDMA radios in phones, right? There's something about the chips they make that CDMA variants of phone have to use Qualcomm, if I'm not mistaken. You would know better.

But Apple tells them to fuck off, would it really matter since even CDMA carriers, like Sprint and VZW in the US, are moving to VoLTE and wouldn't need CDMA radios anymore?

I know the SD chips are in almost every big-name phone but if we're talking Apple specifically, this might give them the kick to put out their own chipset that's been rumored for years. I'm sure they've already gotten work done on it in all this time and that's what may give them leverage in this situation. Which they likely anticipated.

I mention this because I know China is a big user of CDMA phones/networks as well. But doesn't VoLTE and its prospective use worldwide give Apple and other OEMs all the cards? This might start a race for carriers to actually expand VoLTE faster in order to accommodate the latest iPhone and its users.

 

[dilla]

I am so glad I didn't wait it out for the 2018 Pros and got the 10.5 when I did.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

[masta247]

I am so glad I didn't wait it out for the 2018 Pros and got the 10.5 when I did.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

I knew the quality of the newest iPads is shit from the very first time I touched them. The new iPhones feel like crap as well. It's surely not the Apple that at least used to build their devices to last.

 

[dilla]

Maybe people are more vigilant/hyper-vigilant, but it seems like each new release of their products is getting slammed for something. The BF keyboards and their failure rate is one thing. Then the 2018 MBPs had the throttling issue the was, supposedly, fixed with a software update. Bendgate was an issue with a few Android phones too, but I don't think the iPad is the first Apple product to bend; I think it was an issue for a few models in the past.

I have yet to hold an iPhone newer than the iPhone 7+ but my dad and sister are finishing their contracts at the end of this month and likely will upgrade right away to the latest iPhones. I don't know if I should just tell them to wait and see what this new, rumored iPhone due out early 2019 is all about. I know they're not switching to Android because my sister is tethered to iMessage because of her friends and my dad doesn't give a shit but likely fell victim to seeing the phone as a status symbol so he's fine paying the Apple tax for a phone.

I'll stay strong with the S7, I promise lol. Unless a ridiculous deal comes through for either an S9 or a pre-order for the S10. And it better be a once-in-a-lifetime deal, not some "$100 off" BS.

 

[THEV1LL4N]

Or just undergo a digital detox and get an old Nokia.

 

[THEV1LL4N]

I am so glad I didn't wait it out for the 2018 Pros and got the 10.5 when I did.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

No, it's perfectly normal. They beat Samsung to it and are the first to bring a bendable tablet to the market.

 

[THEV1LL4N]

Apple consumers seem to have very strong affinity and brand loyalty with Apple. To someone who has a Macbook, an iPhone 5 (looking to upgrade) and other Apple products, what would you lot suggest as an argument for switching phone over to Android.

I know iPhones are leading the way with performance due to their CPUs, but I feel like the gap could close over the next year or so and iPhones have some other issues. There are some very good Android alternatives around but it might be a hard sell considering that she is into design and creation and chose Apple products for designing stuff (on a more casual level, not professional).

I feel like people that have had an Apple ecosystem for several years will buy other Apple products simply because it fits into their existing setup more seamlessly because of reasons like "I can use this with AirDrop and iCloud" and will overlook all other products and so they won't really experience other products and how similar iOS and Android have become. But aren't AirDrop, AirPlay and iCloud essentially bluetooth, casting and cloud storage? Could a non-Apple phone connect to a Macbook, iPad etc using standard Bluetooth? I already know Google Cast and Drive are available on iOS, but not sure about Mac OS.

 

[dilla]

No, it's perfectly normal. They beat Samsung to it and are the first to bring a bendable tablet to the market.

Ha, that was my exact comment on the Apple subreddit that talked about this.

Apple consumers seem to have very strong affinity and brand loyalty with Apple. To someone who has a Macbook, an iPhone 5 (looking to upgrade) and other Apple products, what would you lot suggest as an argument for switching phone over to Android.

I know iPhones are leading the way with performance due to their CPUs, but I feel like the gap could close over the next year or so and iPhones have some other issues. There are some very good Android alternatives around but it might be a hard sell considering that she is into design and creation and chose Apple products for designing stuff (on a more casual level, not professional).

I feel like people that have had an Apple ecosystem for several years will buy other Apple products simply because it fits into their existing setup more seamlessly because of reasons like "I can use this with AirDrop and iCloud" and will overlook all other products and so they won't really experience other products and how similar iOS and Android have become. But aren't AirDrop, AirPlay and iCloud essentially bluetooth, casting and cloud storage? Could a non-Apple phone connect to a Macbook, iPad etc using standard Bluetooth? I already know Google Cast and Drive are available on iOS, but not sure about Mac OS.

If they’re that deep in to Apple ecosystem, suggesting a switch to Android is not a good idea. I’m still non-Apple before I’m Apple when it comes to buying devices and accessories. Our house is automated around Google Assistant and not Alexa or Home Kit. My phone is still Android and my streaming services are Spotify, not Apple Music. I only open iTunes on accident on my Mac and it has no library since getting my Mac last summer. I have a Nexus Player, but it’s shit and disconnected.

Using Apple hardware is not the only qualifier for being in the ecosystem; you have to use software too. I sync passwords between my Mac and IPad because I use Safari. Safari is the fastest for me on both devices so I never bothered with Firefox for the past two years although you could do the same for Firefox. On my phone, that’s a different story and it’s annoying Samsung Pass won’t sync from Safari on my Mac. Or import cookies and passwords, I should say, of course it won’t ‘sync.’

Cast is available on MacOS if you use Chrone. I think that’s the case for all OSs, though, and you can’t cast from Firefox or Opera or Edge on Windows either. I don’t use AirPlay or AirDrop but Drive does work. There’s an app for desktop for MacOS. It all syncs seamlessly whereas I know Android requires some tinkering and possible third party apps like AirDroid or Push Bullet to sync notifications and get texts and messages to your phone and computer.

In this hypothetical case, I’d say you’re doing a disservice trying to pull someone from the ecosystem. Sure, people manage both ecosystems but they need to have some know-how to deal with the bumps along the way.

 

[masta247]

Bendgate was an issue with a few Android phones too, but I don't think the iPad is the first Apple product to bend; I think it was an issue for a few models in the past.

iPads never bent like the newest Pro does. They were never as fragile. There were Android devices that bent (namely some Huawei devices), and Samsung had the S6 Edge that bent, but it'd take twice the power it did to bend the iPhone 6. Also, it actually required applying force to the chassis. I think it's a much larger problem if you iPad comes permanently bent out of the box and Apple claims it's not a defect.

and my dad doesn't give a shit but likely fell victim to seeing the phone as a status symbol so he's fine paying the Apple tax for a phone.

Considering the iPhone is the most popular phone in the US, including the most popular device amongst the teenagers, I don't see how it could be perceived as a status symbol though.

I'll stay strong with the S7, I promise lol. Unless a ridiculous deal comes through for either an S9 or a pre-order for the S10. And it better be a once-in-a-lifetime deal, not some "$100 off" BS.

We'll soon see what the S10 is all about. I'm really curious. We know it will have a 7nm chip, and that alone means quite a bit of a jump in efficiency. Who knows, it might as well be worth the switch. I'm not digging the camera hole though. I'm already happy with the bezel size of the S8 and wouldn't trade the bezels for a cutout in the actual display area. I'll probably stick with the S8 until the next re-design that keeps the whole display intact. I'm really happy with that phone.

 

[masta247]

There are some very good Android alternatives around but it might be a hard sell considering that she is into design and creation and chose Apple products for designing stuff (on a more casual level, not professional).

I feel like people that have had an Apple ecosystem for several years will buy other Apple products simply because it fits into their existing setup more seamlessly because of reasons like "I can use this with AirDrop and iCloud" and will overlook all other products

Saying someone's choosing Apple for serious multimedia/design work wasn't a good argument for at least 4 or 5 years now. Basically, for professional work, the current situation is that Apple devices allow you to do some (but not all) things that Windows devices do, and they aren't as good at doing it.

Design work and multimedia creation have moved away from Apple. Now Windows is the best and most popular platform for those things. Unless someone wants a very specific program that is Mac only (which is an extremely rare scenario at this point) they are just doing themselves a professional disservice by sticking to the past in the name of sticking to what they are familiar with. There are more multimedia creation tools on Windows and they perform significantly better on Windows devices - and that's on top of the fact that it's possible to use them on significantly faster Windows devices than their Apple counterparts. In many industries, all designers are almost always expected to know tools that are Windows only as well. Most design studios, multimedia studios, editors etc have moved to Windows. If they didn't because they couldn't afford it or otherwise, they'd be at a large competitive disadvantage. If your goal is multimedia work and you're sticking exclusively with Apple, you aren't going to be competitive in the labor market, since the best studios need you to know Windows and the software that they now use on Windows.

Sticking with Apple is still only acceptable if you're a freelancer and your clients are only interested in the final product. Even then you should start switching over to Windows due to the fact you will be able to do your work better, faster and usually cheaper. That is unless your multimedia work is rather simple (say, editing videos and you're only using tools that are multiplatform), where the only difference with going Apple is that you're going to pay more for a lesser performance in the name of sticking to the OS you are familiar with.

While Apple lost its last professional appeal, Google and Android sadly never had it. Apart from rather simple tasks, the tools just aren't there on Android. I still see Android as the best mobile work platform, as you can view virtually any information there is and perform "emergency work" when away from your computer much better than you ever could with an iOS device.

If someone's a tech newbie and has the whole Apple ecosystem set-up and they're satisfied with how it works, I wouldn't tell them to switch though. As long as they're happy, there's no point to change things and learn new tools. It's different if you're in a position of choosing new tools - there will almost always be better choices than Apple tools if you're starting from scratch. If you're already set-up and happy with what you have and it works, just stick with it. There's no point to fix what isn't broken.

 

[dilla]

iPads never bent like the newest Pro does. They were never as fragile. There were Android devices that bent (namely some Huawei devices), and Samsung had the S6 Edge that bent, but it'd take twice the power it did to bend the iPhone 6. Also, it actually required applying force to the chassis. I think it's a much larger problem if you iPad comes permanently bent out of the box and Apple claims it's not a defect.


Considering the iPhone is the most popular phone in the US, including the most popular device amongst the teenagers, I don't see how it could be perceived as a status symbol though.



We'll soon see what the S10 is all about. I'm really curious. We know it will have a 7nm chip, and that alone means quite a bit of a jump in efficiency. Who knows, it might as well be worth the switch. I'm not digging the camera hole though. I'm already happy with the bezel size of the S8 and wouldn't trade the bezels for a cutout in the actual display area. I'll probably stick with the S8 until the next re-design that keeps the whole display intact. I'm really happy with that phone.

Yeah, I was referring to the iPhone 6 or 6S, whichever one it was, that had a Bendgate for it, too. I don't think any other iPad had these issues. I think the Pixels had a bending issue, too. But Apple has been the only one bold enough to double down on stuff coming out of the box that way.

As for the iPhone, or Apple products in general, being a status symbol, one factor is they cost more. People may not notice it if they look at the ancient contract pricing and saw the down deposit as the cost of the phone and didn't factor in the monthly payments that used to be baked in to monthly plans. Now that they're done-away with and it's monthly installment plans that last only 24 months and go away after that once the phone is paid off, I still think people ignore that. Or are fine with paying $30+ a month in installments vs Android phones that go cheaper than that.

Also, premium brands cater more to iOS than Android. You can find Gucci and Prada and other leather brands that make iOS compatible cases and sleeves and bags to house macOS products. That's not to say an Android device can't fit in them, but they are designed specifically for Apple devices. Some premium audio equipment has compatibility issues with Android, like the 1More headphones I have say that audio may not be adjustable using the control fob for Android devices. It works flawlessly with iOS devices. Same with Beats, which don't promise full compatibility with Android devices to use all their features. I think Bose audio equipment also has some stipulations on full-compatibility with Android devices.

Premium car brands sell accessories that are tailored for iOS devices. Nothing for Android. If it fits, you might get away with it but many of their merchandise plugs in via Lightning cable, so good luck with that on a USB-C or Micro-USB Android device.

There are plenty more brands that cater to Apple devices and leave Android devices by the wayside. I imagine it's because they know their clientele well and have done research in to what kinds of products they already own. Regular brands may not play favorites, but expensive, luxury brands certainly do, and they favor Apple.

 

[dilla]

Also, looks like Google dropped a turd with the Slate:

I used to bemoan the lack of Android tablets that could hold a light to the iPad but it's funny how Google has cut out so many services like Hangouts, Allo, Reader, etc., but hasn't done the same to its tablet OS. I think it needs a nail in its coffin and put away for good. Let Apple have the monopoly on tablets because clearly no other OEM is trying anymore. I guess MS has the Surface tablets that are somewhat successful. I don't know who would buy anything running ChromeOS.

 

[masta247]

I guess MS has the Surface tablets that are somewhat successful. I don't know who would buy anything running ChromeOS.

I think the Surface series aren't really tablets - they are more like laptops with hardware behind the screen, and foldable keyboards. ChromeOS has its place maybe in the sub-$300 laptop category. I could see getting it for my grandpa.

 

[dilla]

I think the Surface series aren't really tablets - they are more like laptops with hardware behind the screen, and foldable keyboards. ChromeOS has its place maybe in the sub-$300 laptop category. I could see getting it for my grandpa.

I haven't used a newer Surface but some are asking for the iPad Pros to become more like the Surface tablets with an overhaul of iOS for iPad. So whatever the Surface is considered now, I think the Pro line of iPads should go in that direction, especially with the power the 2018 Pros are rocking. The Surface was originally considered a tablet, right? The Surface Tab or, something. It's evolved since then to a full lineup of mobile computers but the idea is still the same, I feel. They just run a desktop OS and not a mobile OS like iOS for iPad.

 

[THEV1LL4N]

Saying someone's choosing Apple for serious multimedia/design work wasn't a good argument for at least 4 or 5 years now. Basically, for professional work, the current situation is that Apple devices allow you to do some (but not all) things that Windows devices do, and they aren't as good at doing it.

Design work and multimedia creation have moved away from Apple. Now Windows is the best and most popular platform for those things. Unless someone wants a very specific program that is Mac only (which is an extremely rare scenario at this point) they are just doing themselves a professional disservice by sticking to the past in the name of sticking to what they are familiar with. There are more multimedia creation tools on Windows and they perform significantly better on Windows devices - and that's on top of the fact that it's possible to use them on significantly faster Windows devices than their Apple counterparts. In many industries, all designers are almost always expected to know tools that are Windows only as well. Most design studios, multimedia studios, editors etc have moved to Windows. If they didn't because they couldn't afford it or otherwise, they'd be at a large competitive disadvantage. If your goal is multimedia work and you're sticking exclusively with Apple, you aren't going to be competitive in the labor market, since the best studios need you to know Windows and the software that they now use on Windows.

Sticking with Apple is still only acceptable if you're a freelancer and your clients are only interested in the final product. Even then you should start switching over to Windows due to the fact you will be able to do your work better, faster and usually cheaper. That is unless your multimedia work is rather simple (say, editing videos and you're only using tools that are multiplatform), where the only difference with going Apple is that you're going to pay more for a lesser performance in the name of sticking to the OS you are familiar with.

While Apple lost its last professional appeal, Google and Android sadly never had it. Apart from rather simple tasks, the tools just aren't there on Android. I still see Android as the best mobile work platform, as you can view virtually any information there is and perform "emergency work" when away from your computer much better than you ever could with an iOS device.

If someone's a tech newbie and has the whole Apple ecosystem set-up and they're satisfied with how it works, I wouldn't tell them to switch though. As long as they're happy, there's no point to change things and learn new tools. It's different if you're in a position of choosing new tools - there will almost always be better choices than Apple tools if you're starting from scratch. If you're already set-up and happy with what you have and it works, just stick with it. There's no point to fix what isn't broken.

Thank you. They are mainly just using those for casual video editing (not professional) and looking to upgrade their phone (iPhone 5) to something this year so I may suggest the Galaxy S10 or if the Pixel 4 or anything else is good.

 

[dilla]

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loooool make this guy a mod now

 

[masta247]

I haven't used a newer Surface but some are asking for the iPad Pros to become more like the Surface tablets with an overhaul of iOS for iPad. So whatever the Surface is considered now, I think the Pro line of iPads should go in that direction, especially with the power the 2018 Pros are rocking. The Surface was originally considered a tablet, right? The Surface Tab or, something. It's evolved since then to a full lineup of mobile computers but the idea is still the same, I feel. They just run a desktop OS and not a mobile OS like iOS for iPad.

I know Apple worked hard so people compare their iPads to full-fledged laptops (which they partially accomplished seeing noob reviewers compare them against each other for some reason), but reality is that those devices are in completely different categories and I don't see them as competitors in any way. I feel like marketing the latest iPad Pros as serious work devices was aimed strictly at people who actually don't need them for work but so they can justify to themselves spending $800 or more on a tablet. Anyone who actually really needs a device for work knows they need a desktop, laptop or something like the Surface. There's hardly any actual work you can do on iOS, and if you can do something there, you're so handicapped by using iOS to do it that it becomes completely pointless.

The Surface line from the very first device had a full desktop OS and a full keyboard. The Surface devices are almost useless as tablets though, except maybe for drawing and watching videos. They are literally sleek Windows laptops with hardware behind a touchscreen. The iPad Pros are still mere mobile tablets with optional keyboards, no matter how much ARM CPU power there is or how good the cameras on the back are (for whatever reason). The iPad pros are excellent tablets that run mobile apps better than anything else, but that's all there is.

 

[dilla]

I know Apple worked hard so people compare their iPads to full-fledged laptops (which they partially accomplished seeing noob reviewers compare them against each other for some reason), but reality is that those devices are in completely different categories and I don't see them as competitors in any way. I feel like marketing the latest iPad Pros as serious work devices was aimed strictly at people who actually don't need them for work but so they can justify to themselves spending $800 or more on a tablet. Anyone who actually really needs a device for work knows they need a desktop, laptop or something like the Surface. There's hardly any actual work you can do on iOS, and if you can do something there, you're so handicapped by using iOS to do it that it becomes completely pointless.

The Surface line from the very first device had a full desktop OS and a full keyboard. The Surface devices are almost useless as tablets though, except maybe for drawing and watching videos. They are literally sleek Windows laptops with hardware behind a touchscreen. The iPad Pros are still mere mobile tablets with optional keyboards, no matter how much ARM CPU power there is or how good the cameras on the back are (for whatever reason). The iPad pros are excellent tablets that run mobile apps better than anything else, but that's all there is.

Yeah that’s the big issue with the Pros now. iOS is handicapped in what it can do and those criticisms grew louder with the good hardware the 2018 Pros have but still running iOS. I think the Surface certainly is a better tablet-esque device than the iPad when it comes to being used like a professional would. I just don’t know how what the Pro can do compares to the Surface. Creative stuff and editing. Certainly better on a desktop or laptop for now but I think Apple and MS both are trying to change that for those that work a lot on the go and trying to make tablets and laptops a more serviceable option.

I don’t know what the Surface needs to do to improve but the iPad needs a proper OS and not the gimped iOS that can also be found on an iPhone. Right now, these iPad Pros seem to be used as laptop replacements and not full fledge desktops. It works for casual users that browse and stream media and maybe a bit more, but you’re right, Apple did a huge disservice by trying to rope in power users to do their work on them instead of a desktop or laptop. And they were called out for it.

You know more about hardware than I do but I got the feeling from reviews of the 2018 Pros that the hardware is there to do some serious work but the OS and lack of proper apps is what’s holding them back.

 

[masta247]

I just don’t know how what the Pro can do compares to the Surface. Creative stuff and editing. Certainly better on a desktop or laptop for now but I think Apple and MS both are trying to change that for those that work a lot on the go and trying to make tablets and laptops a more serviceable option.

I don't think they compare. You can actually run any software on the Surface. It might not be the most comfortable experience in the world due to the small display size and the ultra-book grade CPU and potato GPU, but you can totally do any work on it. From any office work through programming to editing to rendering stuff, you can do it all. I don't think anyone would actually use an iPad to do any work except of simple typing/data entry or photo corrections on the go. The iPad would only be useful if it actually ran MacOS, but then it would become useless as a tablet. Unless Apple somehow manages to merge these ecosystems, they are in a pickle. I think they will have to bring MacOS to ARM and merge it with iOS if they're serious about what they're marketing their products for.

 

[dilla]

I don't think they compare. You can actually run any software on the Surface. It might not be the most comfortable experience in the world due to the small display size and the ultra-book grade CPU and potato GPU, but you can totally do any work on it. From any office work through programming to editing to rendering stuff, you can do it all. I don't think anyone would actually use an iPad to do any work except of simple typing/data entry or photo corrections on the go. The iPad would only be useful if it actually ran MacOS, but then it would become useless as a tablet. Unless Apple somehow manages to merge these ecosystems, they are in a pickle. I think they will have to bring MacOS to ARM and merge it with iOS if they're serious about what they're marketing their products for.

And I think that merging of the two OSs has been rumored for some time. It might be some more time until it comes to fruition but I think that is the rumored/expected goal by most users.

I feel like in a business setting, one-on-one, or in a small group, tablets (Surface and iPads alike) are used to make small presentations or to show literature in paperless companies. I know a lot of pharmaceutical reps use tablets to get signatures on documents for receipts of sample medication. Many of them also have small presentations that they show individual doctors with studies and other information. It's really niche and I think it can go bigger, but now that I think about it, "professional" use doesn't necessarily mean editing on the go only. It can and should, but there are less demanding applications that still could be beneficial to companies and their clients. I don't think those simple tasks require a new OS. The only thing I can think of that would need the hardware and OS of a desktop would be editing. There could be more that more tech savvy people would know about, but I still see the simple uses for it. I just think that pool of simple uses could be broadened before it being deepened to include more demanding tasks.

Is there anything on the horizon for desktops/laptops that is set to take those class of computers to an absolutely next level and really widen the gap between computers and tablets? I mean a GPU, CPU, something that just puts computers leaps and bound ahead, like the difference between a Gen 8 i7 and a core 2 Duo from 2009?

Because until something that big happens, I think the debate will always be there. OEMs and users alike will try to shoehorn intensive tasks on to tiny, mobile units and hope that enough people find it serviceable to warrant purchasing the tablets. And we will always be in a circle of "what-abouts" when trying to make a case for one or the other.

But something also tells me that these Pro users know best. They'll be able to tell instantly if an iPad Pro can truly be a mobile workstation for them to do their editing or designing on the go vs their $4K+ desktops with all the bells and whistles. I think someone needs to make a major project on an iPad or Surface and give some spark to OEMs that there is a genuine interest in getting these devices to be replacements; we all know OEMs currently aren't giving it their best shot because the ads and features feel very forced and sometimes incomplete. I don't imagine Apple or MS's "best" efforts would also be an affordable tablet, either. It would probably be priced alongside a top of the line gaming laptop, I feel, and that just defeats the purpose.