Sarkozy to submit bill banning Islamic face veils
- Thread starter SiGh
- Start date
I've dated a Muslim girl in the past, obviously secretly, who's told me she knows some that it's forced upon them, others do it out of tradition. Needless to say the relationship didn't last lol, not because I had anything against her beliefs, I had interesting conversations with her, but going around secretly, having to pretend that we're not together in case someone from the community close to her sees it and reports to the family that a non-Moroccan Muslim is with her. I just couldn't do it.
As for making legislations ... It's France it's usual of them. They're a bit more extreme, I also think they're trying to cling onto their culture for many believe over there that it's starting to fade away with the influx of mass immigration from the Maghreb and Middle-East countries.
As for making legislations ... It's France it's usual of them. They're a bit more extreme, I also think they're trying to cling onto their culture for many believe over there that it's starting to fade away with the influx of mass immigration from the Maghreb and Middle-East countries.
Did anyone see the recent South Park episode taking the piss out of the fact that you can't show Muhammad? They put him in a bear costume.
It was hilarious and so spot on.
Three guesses how the fundamentalists reacted to that. Actually you don't need three guesses, just one. Actually you shouldn't even need to guess, it's pretty obvious:
ISLAMIC RAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEE
It was hilarious and so spot on.
Three guesses how the fundamentalists reacted to that. Actually you don't need three guesses, just one. Actually you shouldn't even need to guess, it's pretty obvious:
ISLAMIC RAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEE
Did anyone see the recent South Park episode taking the piss out of the fact that you can't show Muhammad? They put him in a bear costume.
It was hilarious and so spot on.
Three guesses how the fundamentalists reacted to that. Actually you don't need three guesses, just one. Actually you shouldn't even need to guess, it's pretty obvious:
ISLAMIC RAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEE
It was hilarious and so spot on.
Three guesses how the fundamentalists reacted to that. Actually you don't need three guesses, just one. Actually you shouldn't even need to guess, it's pretty obvious:
ISLAMIC RAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEE
I'm not gonna be too detailed about this because it's pretty pointless. I usually don't like 'beating the dead horse'.
These are just some of my observations:
a) a majority of people in western societies suffer from islamaphobia whether they know it or not. And dont even front, its pretty evident reading some of the posts on here.
b) the media gives a very skewed image of Islam.. Biased on both sides.. Islam is NOT a religion of peace NOR is a religion of terrorism.
c) a majority of muslims in the east and west have no idea what their own religion is about. They're either born into progressive modern families and generally tend to take that role as well, or into more traditional fundamental families and tend to follow that as well.
.. now on to this particular topic.
I agree for the most part with what SOFI said that, Muslims have more religious freedoms in the west than they do in their own country. I know many Muslims will try do deny that.. but it's true... and if anyone wants to call me out on that, be my guest.. prepare to be schooled.
Muslim countries today are oppressing their citizens (muslim and non muslim) and are not giving them the proper individual rights and freedom in accordance to western standards nor in accordance to Shari'ah law
Now with that said.. The west is supposedly the land of the free. I do not see the harm in a woman wanting to cover her face. Although according to Islam covering the face is NOT required... covering the head is. BUT if a woman would like to cover her face, and she has not been coerced into doing it. Then why exactly is it an issue. Dont say to ID her cuz there's tons of alternative ways to do it. Dont say it helps interrogation, cuz you can use a female interrogator.
And the article stating that "it threatens the dignity of a woman" is just a ridiculous statement. Given that the woman was not pressured or coerced into doing it. No educated Muslim man should coerce a woman into wearing the burqa anyways since it is not a requirement. But there's always the ignorant right? If a woman herself decides to cover herself I cant do nothing but respect that, cuz thats her OWN choice... (if its her own choice)
Ignorance within Islam is poisonous, and the ignorance and media led psychological warfare against the religion doesn't help the image much either.
I'd be interested to see the study that you got that from
These are just some of my observations:
a) a majority of people in western societies suffer from islamaphobia whether they know it or not. And dont even front, its pretty evident reading some of the posts on here.
b) the media gives a very skewed image of Islam.. Biased on both sides.. Islam is NOT a religion of peace NOR is a religion of terrorism.
c) a majority of muslims in the east and west have no idea what their own religion is about. They're either born into progressive modern families and generally tend to take that role as well, or into more traditional fundamental families and tend to follow that as well.
.. now on to this particular topic.
I agree for the most part with what SOFI said that, Muslims have more religious freedoms in the west than they do in their own country. I know many Muslims will try do deny that.. but it's true... and if anyone wants to call me out on that, be my guest.. prepare to be schooled.
Muslim countries today are oppressing their citizens (muslim and non muslim) and are not giving them the proper individual rights and freedom in accordance to western standards nor in accordance to Shari'ah law
Now with that said.. The west is supposedly the land of the free. I do not see the harm in a woman wanting to cover her face. Although according to Islam covering the face is NOT required... covering the head is. BUT if a woman would like to cover her face, and she has not been coerced into doing it. Then why exactly is it an issue. Dont say to ID her cuz there's tons of alternative ways to do it. Dont say it helps interrogation, cuz you can use a female interrogator.
And the article stating that "it threatens the dignity of a woman" is just a ridiculous statement. Given that the woman was not pressured or coerced into doing it. No educated Muslim man should coerce a woman into wearing the burqa anyways since it is not a requirement. But there's always the ignorant right? If a woman herself decides to cover herself I cant do nothing but respect that, cuz thats her OWN choice... (if its her own choice)
Ignorance within Islam is poisonous, and the ignorance and media led psychological warfare against the religion doesn't help the image much either.
I'd be interested to see the study that you got that from
^ I can't find the one I remember reading but I found this:
Wife Beating In Islam
This is a poll taken amongst Muslim WOMEN in Jordan (lol):
Wife Beating In Islam
This is a poll taken amongst Muslim WOMEN in Jordan (lol):
I'm not islamaphobic. I hate all religions. But I'm not scared of any of them.
Some of the nicest, friendliest people I know are Muslim.....well, I suppose some would say they aren't because they don't abide by all the ridiculous rules. But they consider themselves to be Muslim so that's what matters, IMO.
Every religion has to account for the crazy ass fundamentalists. But I think Islam has the crazied, looniest, most deluded bunch of fanatical fuckwad fundamentalists (hey, some nice alliteration there) out of everyone.
The ridiculously defensive, "don't-say-a-word-about-our-religion-or-we-will-kill-you" thing is just played out, and annoying. If I went on international TV and said "Fuck Jesus", sure some people would be angry, but a few days later 99% of them would have forgot about it. But if I said, "Fuck Mohammad", what? There's instantly a bounty on my head and whoever kills me first gets a million virgins in a non-existent afterlife? Lame.
I wouldn't be scared to say/do that, if I felt like I had a good reason to, though. That's what freedom of speech is about, and if I die defending freedom of speech, so be it - because FREEDOM is more important than any and all religions put together. That's why many people in the West dislike Islam - because it's the opposite of freedom. It's repression. Repression of women. Repression of anyone that doesn't believe in exactly the same thing as they do.
Well, I say fuck that.
Some of the nicest, friendliest people I know are Muslim.....well, I suppose some would say they aren't because they don't abide by all the ridiculous rules. But they consider themselves to be Muslim so that's what matters, IMO.
Every religion has to account for the crazy ass fundamentalists. But I think Islam has the crazied, looniest, most deluded bunch of fanatical fuckwad fundamentalists (hey, some nice alliteration there) out of everyone.
The ridiculously defensive, "don't-say-a-word-about-our-religion-or-we-will-kill-you" thing is just played out, and annoying. If I went on international TV and said "Fuck Jesus", sure some people would be angry, but a few days later 99% of them would have forgot about it. But if I said, "Fuck Mohammad", what? There's instantly a bounty on my head and whoever kills me first gets a million virgins in a non-existent afterlife? Lame.
I wouldn't be scared to say/do that, if I felt like I had a good reason to, though. That's what freedom of speech is about, and if I die defending freedom of speech, so be it - because FREEDOM is more important than any and all religions put together. That's why many people in the West dislike Islam - because it's the opposite of freedom. It's repression. Repression of women. Repression of anyone that doesn't believe in exactly the same thing as they do.
Well, I say fuck that.
Apart from a basic common decency norm in the West that it's considered appropriate to be able to see who you talk to, I don't think that many Westerners have a problem with veils. What gets "us" agitated is the massive muslim shitstorm that arises once someone as much as farts in their direction.
Now I'm like Casey in that I hate all religions equally. I don't discriminate. But you don't see Jews or Christians or any other religious group screaming for death and putting bounties on cartoonist heads if they're made fun of in an evening newspaper.
The advantage that Judaism and Christianity have is that they were forced to undergo the period of Enlightement in the west. Their immediate authority and influence was heavily curtailed by new thoughts and new administrations. The Muslim world never faced a similar situation. Religion was, and in some if not most cases still is, the dominant factor in the culture. This strong grip of religion on life creates possibilites to any authoritive figure to abuse it for his own ends.
People like Bin Laden and the extremists aren't "real muslims", fair enough. Even I can read a Koran and see they go against what is generally preached. But fact remains that the muslim culture gives rise to a disproportionately large amount of more extremist and less tolerant people, individually and collectively.
Now I'm like Casey in that I hate all religions equally. I don't discriminate. But you don't see Jews or Christians or any other religious group screaming for death and putting bounties on cartoonist heads if they're made fun of in an evening newspaper.
The advantage that Judaism and Christianity have is that they were forced to undergo the period of Enlightement in the west. Their immediate authority and influence was heavily curtailed by new thoughts and new administrations. The Muslim world never faced a similar situation. Religion was, and in some if not most cases still is, the dominant factor in the culture. This strong grip of religion on life creates possibilites to any authoritive figure to abuse it for his own ends.
People like Bin Laden and the extremists aren't "real muslims", fair enough. Even I can read a Koran and see they go against what is generally preached. But fact remains that the muslim culture gives rise to a disproportionately large amount of more extremist and less tolerant people, individually and collectively.
agreed.. with most of what u (Duke) and Casey said.
It's a fact that the Muslim populations have within them, some of the most extremist mentalities that exist in the world today.
And I'm not going to stand here and try and defend or justify some of their illogical behavior. But I do understand a part of the Muslim worlds frustration. When people perceive to be oppressed they behave irrationally. When people are led into blind following of anything, they behave irrationally. Unfortunately most of the Muslim world consists of poor people that come from war torn countries and are looking for something to hold on to. They find a small reason to vent and they behave like animals.
Living in Toronto I come across people from all sorts of backgrounds, and I've come to understand the anger that exists within some of the Muslim community. I'm not saying that justifies killing innocent people or rioting or anything like that, but just understand that we in the west will never really understand what it's like to grow up in Afghanistan or Iraq or Palestine or Somalia.
We dont share the same experiences, therefore its also illogical to believe that we share the same rationalities.
Now the things I dont agree with:
Casey, u cant be disrespectful in the name of freedom of speech. That shits stupid, thats like me raping a good looking girl in the name of freedom of expression. Yea it sounds great that people should have Freedom, but unconditional freedom is not practical.
Like look at it this way you cuss out someones mother .. person A might laugh it off. person B might cuss you out... person C might punch u in the face.. person D might stab you in the neck. Everyone has different thresholds. You go around disrespecting peoples beliefs some people might react with serious aggression. That's just how human beings work. Not saying it's justifiable.. that's just how it is.
.. anyways all this shit is mad redundant. Thats why I dont like commenting on these threads, u probably wont change my mind nor will I change urs. I just hope that Muslim lands finally see some peace so the next generation can spend time educating themselves instead of worrying about surviving till the next day and just listening to whatever their parents are feeding them. Maybe once the masses are educated the world they'll behave differently and the world will start seeing them differently.
It's a fact that the Muslim populations have within them, some of the most extremist mentalities that exist in the world today.
And I'm not going to stand here and try and defend or justify some of their illogical behavior. But I do understand a part of the Muslim worlds frustration. When people perceive to be oppressed they behave irrationally. When people are led into blind following of anything, they behave irrationally. Unfortunately most of the Muslim world consists of poor people that come from war torn countries and are looking for something to hold on to. They find a small reason to vent and they behave like animals.
Living in Toronto I come across people from all sorts of backgrounds, and I've come to understand the anger that exists within some of the Muslim community. I'm not saying that justifies killing innocent people or rioting or anything like that, but just understand that we in the west will never really understand what it's like to grow up in Afghanistan or Iraq or Palestine or Somalia.
We dont share the same experiences, therefore its also illogical to believe that we share the same rationalities.
Now the things I dont agree with:
Casey, u cant be disrespectful in the name of freedom of speech. That shits stupid, thats like me raping a good looking girl in the name of freedom of expression. Yea it sounds great that people should have Freedom, but unconditional freedom is not practical.
Like look at it this way you cuss out someones mother .. person A might laugh it off. person B might cuss you out... person C might punch u in the face.. person D might stab you in the neck. Everyone has different thresholds. You go around disrespecting peoples beliefs some people might react with serious aggression. That's just how human beings work. Not saying it's justifiable.. that's just how it is.
.. anyways all this shit is mad redundant. Thats why I dont like commenting on these threads, u probably wont change my mind nor will I change urs. I just hope that Muslim lands finally see some peace so the next generation can spend time educating themselves instead of worrying about surviving till the next day and just listening to whatever their parents are feeding them. Maybe once the masses are educated the world they'll behave differently and the world will start seeing them differently.
Donate
Any donations will be used to help pay for the site costs, and anything donated above will be donated to C-Dub's son on behalf of this community.
Members online
No members online now.