WWI/WWII (continued from thugz mansion)

[Little Skittle]

i remember our WoW convo...it had nothing to do with the iraq "war" however, because i know that it is not a war in iraq, so i would never disagree with that. i believe our convo was how about you claiming all americans are arrogant and most of us deserve to die (something to that effect), but our discussion now has nothing to do with our prior confrontations.
To calcuo:

when i say axis powers, im talking about japan, germany and italy....and no, japan didnt kill any russians in russia (at least not to my knowledge) but had the u.s. not entered the war, SU would have been the biggest threat to the axis powers, making them the next target

im not sure how many japanese plains we shot down (and i wont bother to look it up because its irrelevant to our conversation), maybe the one event was poorly reacted to during the attack, but after the attack we demonstrated several times (notably in hiroshima and nagasaki) that we are not weak.

if it was all for money, than y didnt we join WWI/WWII, until after we were attacked??? btw wut debts did we have?

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

It had everything to do with the Iraq war because that was the topic of the moment.

And I believe we - or rather I, seeing as you were of limited knowledge - was commenting on the Iraq war (which has ignited discussing of the world's perception of the US) to the point where I was using Gulf War references as to why people view America the way they do.

And do you deny that there is a war in Iraq?

Making them the 'next target'....who was the first again? The USA was not attacked because it was a threat to the axis of power, Japan merely sought to conquer more land - not neccessarily the USA at this point - & took an opportunity which presented itself.

I think you'll find I said Pearl Harbour exposed America as slow & weak. When did I comment on other events? I didn't, so hush.

Money? If you would kindly attempt to be literate for a moment you would find that twice I have stated that America's participation in WWII was not - at it's core - about money.

WWI however, was. Why did you wait until you were attacked? Well, that can be answered in another question: why did the US government send a submarine into hostile territory? You see, in order to go to war, it helps to have a reason - however unhonourable & false that reason may be. A nation's debt recollection was not on people's top ten of 'what I want to die for'.

To try & help you understand, picture the US government telling it's people the truth & blatantly stating, 'we don't know if Saddam has chemical weapons & we don't really care, we're invading Iraq & stealing her oil to make the rich richer & that's the end of it'. Do you think the American people would be happy? I would hope not. Thus, the propaganda warhorse gets rolling & the rest, as they say, is history.

Again though, find yourself a credible historian & ask him/her what America's motivations were for getting involved in WWI, then come back here & apologize for wasting my time.

And again, if you could bear with me & be literate for a minute this would be smoother. America didn't owe us anything hence the use of 'she' & 'their'. Britain & France however, were in deep, deep debt to the US who had sold them materials with a nice chunk of interest ni the repayment deal. Had Britain & France fallen, America would've never seen her money again.

 

[Glockmatic]

Japan wouldn't last long in a war vs the soviets, they wouldn't have the resources or manpower to take anything. Italy was a lame duck, they would pose no threat to the soviets. If it was the allies (UK, Canada, France, no US) and USSR went against the axis the allies still would have won, but the war may have went on longer.

 

[Little Skittle]

It had everything to do with the Iraq war because that was the topic of the moment.

And I believe we - or rather I, seeing as you were of limited knowledge - was commenting on the Iraq war (which has ignited discussing of the world's perception of the US) to the point where I was using Gulf War references as to why people view America the way they do.

And do you deny that there is a war in Iraq?

Making them the 'next target'....who was the first again? The USA was not attacked because it was a threat to the axis of power, Japan merely sought to conquer more land - not neccessarily the USA at this point - & took an opportunity which presented itself.

I think you'll find I said Pearl Harbour exposed America as slow & weak. When did I comment on other events? I didn't, so hush.

Money? If you would kindly attempt to be literate for a moment you would find that twice I have stated that America's participation in WWII was not - at it's core - about money.

WWI however, was. Why did you wait until you were attacked? Well, that can be answered in another question: why did the US government send a submarine into hostile territory? You see, in order to go to war, it helps to have a reason - however unhonourable & false that reason may be. A nation's debt recollection was not on people's top ten of 'what I want to die for'.

To try & help you understand, picture the US government telling it's people the truth & blatantly stating, 'we don't know if Saddam has chemical weapons & we don't really care, we're invading Iraq & stealing her oil to make the rich richer & that's the end of it'. Do you think the American people would be happy? I would hope not. Thus, the propaganda warhorse gets rolling & the rest, as they say, is history.

Again though, find yourself a credible historian & ask him/her what America's motivations were for getting involved in WWI, then come back here & apologize for wasting my time.

And again, if you could bear with me & be literate for a minute this would be smoother. America didn't owe us anything hence the use of 'she' & 'their'. Britain & France however, were in deep, deep debt to the US who had sold them materials with a nice chunk of interest ni the repayment deal. Had Britain & France fallen, America would've never seen her money again.

do i disagree there is a war in iraq? yes i do, its more of a conflict, which the media has labeled a war

wow i dont even know where to begin correcting you, but before i do, lets talk about questions that i asked multiple times that u kept putting off

yes or no...america saved your ass in world war 2

yes or no...we did not join world war 2, we were forced in

ok now to begin with these other crazy things that u accept as reality...

you're out of your mind if u think japan did it to conquer more land. do u really think that japan believed they had half a chance to conquer hawaii when it was pretty much controlled by the u.s.?

u didnt mention other things besides pearl harbor...but i did to prove that america is not weak or slow, u cant just pick out one event and automatically say thats exactly how it is...for example: if a kid was gettin straight A's in school, but got a d in math, would u say he was a fuckin idiot because hes not good at math? no, because math is only one subject (event)

jesus christ, we did not join WWI for money purposes, it was because they sunk our submarine...btw, i believe it was there to protect cargo ships who were givin supplies to other countries.

can u even name debts that we had? if we even had debts at that point, the supplies we were feeding to other nations would have been more than enough to cover our debts (once they paid us back). and correct, if france and britain would have fallen, we wouldnt have seen that money, however, by the time we had entered the war, britain and france were no where near falling. so if your theory is correct, we didnt we wait until they were in deeper shit instead of jumping right in? im tellin u man, its not a coincidence that we joined RIGHT after we were attacked upon

im not tryin to be an asshole or anything, but where do u learn these things that you're saying? kuz u need to beat whoever told u this shit kuz its so wrong that its not even funny...this isnt even a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact and fiction, and your facts are just plainly not right

 

[Little Skittle]

Japan wouldn't last long in a war vs the soviets, they wouldn't have the resources or manpower to take anything. Italy was a lame duck, they would pose no threat to the soviets. If it was the allies (UK, Canada, France, no US) and USSR went against the axis the allies still would have won, but the war may have went on longer.

the soviets had many many soldiers, but the army as a whole was weak
france has always had a weak army
the UK had a killer navy/decent army, but the air force was not all there

the point is, japan, italy, and germany would have dominated the allies, had the u.s. not been involved

 

[Glockmatic]

do i disagree there is a war in iraq? yes i do, its more of a conflict, which the media has labeled a war

you mean a country invading another country is a conflict and not a war? World War 1 and 2 should be called World Conflict 1 and 2 then

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

do i disagree there is a war in iraq? yes i do, its more of a conflict, which the media has labeled a war

wow i dont even know where to begin correcting you, but before i do, lets talk about questions that i asked multiple times that u kept putting off

yes or no...america saved your ass in world war 2

yes or no...we did not join world war 2, we were forced in

ok now to begin with these other crazy things that u accept as reality...

you're out of your mind if u think japan did it to conquer more land. do u really think that japan believed they had half a chance to conquer hawaii when it was pretty much controlled by the u.s.?

u didnt mention other things besides pearl harbor...but i did to prove that america is not weak or slow, u cant just pick out one event and automatically say thats exactly how it is...for example: if a kid was gettin straight A's in school, but got a d in math, would u say he was a fuckin idiot because hes not good at math? no, because math is only one subject (event)

jesus christ, we did not join WWI for money purposes, it was because they sunk our submarine...btw, i believe it was there to protect cargo ships who were givin supplies to other countries.

can u even name debts that we had? if we even had debts at that point, the supplies we were feeding to other nations would have been more than enough to cover our debts (once they paid us back). and correct, if france and britain would have fallen, we wouldnt have seen that money, however, by the time we had entered the war, britain and france were no where near falling. so if your theory is correct, we didnt we wait until they were in deeper shit instead of jumping right in? im tellin u man, its not a coincidence that we joined RIGHT after we were attacked upon

im not tryin to be an asshole or anything, but where do u learn these things that you're saying? kuz u need to beat whoever told u this shit kuz its so wrong that its not even funny...this isnt even a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact and fiction, and your facts are just plainly not right

No, America didn't 'save our ass'.

No, you joined the war...out of fear.

Hmm, check where I said 'not neccessarily the USA'. I told you, they saw an opportunity to weaken the US & they took it << this is a fact, or was Pearl Harbour a figment of my imagination?

Right, now I hate to bring up the age thing, but you sound like you're 14 or some shit. Read this carefully, Pearl Harbour made America look weak & slow & they felt the need to react to this. Does this make sense to you? If not, then I don't know wtf to do because I'm pretty sure this is at least the third time I've had to say this.

Yes, America entered WWI for financial reasons. Again, I implore that you ask a historian.

Again, I never said America had debts. To prove my point, I'll even quote myself when I tried to tell you this the second time. I said, 'America didn't owe us anything'. Now tell me how - from that - you came to the conclusion that I had said America was in debt.

Why didn't you wait? It's this thing called 'thinking ahead' again (btw, take note of the number of times I'm saying 'again', because I am just repeating myself & not just ignorantly, I'm doing so with statements which continue to rebut yours). Now when America sees her 'investments' potentially endangered, she gets invovled. Simple? I think so.

Of course it's no coincidence, I already explained that governments like to have 'reasons' to go to war which will sit well with the public.

You are barely comprehensible at times & appear very naive - not just here but in our previous 'dialogue'.

What you need to do is lose the blinkers & the ear plugs, find a historian, sit down & have a long conversation. Then, & I cannot stress this enough, you need to get yourself some books & read.

 

[Little Skittle]

you mean a country invading another country is a conflict and not a war? World War 1 and 2 should be called World Conflict 1 and 2 then

its not one country verses another, its one country liberating another from an oppressive government...its not our army verses theirs, since they dont even have an army-more like random militant groups...there is not battles-more like random guerrilla attacks....this is not a war in iraq, this is a conflict....btw lets keep stay on topic about ww1 ww2 please

 

[Glockmatic]

the soviets had many many soldiers, but the army as a whole was weak
france has always had a weak army
the UK had a killer navy/decent army, but the air force was not all there

the point is, japan, italy, and germany would have dominated the allies, had the u.s. not been involved

Soviet T-34 tank was considered one of the best tanks in WW2, and it was mass produced. The Germans had to create tanks to counter them, and by the time they did they couldn't make enough.

Japan only attacked US for resources, by the end of the war Japan was nearly dry of oil. Soviets, Australians, Canadians, Indians and Chinese would have fought and defeated the Japanese by 1) Invasion or 2) starve them to surrendering.

Italian forces were weak, VERY weak. Only forces worth commenting on was the Navy, which did very little.

By the end of the war the UK's navy and airforce were taking out german u-boats and ships.

 

[Glockmatic]

its not one country verses another, its one country liberating another from an oppressive government...its not our army verses theirs, since they dont even have an army-more like random militant groups...there is not battles-more like random guerrilla attacks....this is not a war in iraq, this is a conflict....btw lets keep stay on topic about ww1 ww2 please

Its one sovereign country being invaded by another, that is war.

 

[Little Skittle]

No, America didn't 'save our ass'.

No, you joined the war...out of fear.

Hmm, check where I said 'not neccessarily the USA'. I told you, they saw an opportunity to weaken the US & they took it << this is a fact, or was Pearl Harbour a figment of my imagination?

Right, now I hate to bring up the age thing, but you sound like you're 14 or some shit. Read this carefully, Pearl Harbour made America look weak & slow & they felt the need to react to this. Does this make sense to you? If not, then I don't know wtf to do because I'm pretty sure this is at least the third time I've had to say this.

Yes, America entered WWI for financial reasons. Again, I implore that you ask a historian.

Again, I never said America had debts. To prove my point, I'll even quote myself when I tried to tell you this the second time. I said, 'America didn't owe us anything'. Now tell me how - from that - you came to the conclusion that I had said America was in debt.

Why didn't you wait? It's this thing called 'thinking ahead' again (btw, take note of the number of times I'm saying 'again', because I am just repeating myself & not just ignorantly, I'm doing so with statements which continue to rebut yours). Now when America sees her 'investments' potentially endangered, she gets invovled. Simple? I think so.

Of course it's no coincidence, I already explained that governments like to have 'reasons' to go to war which will sit well with the public.

You are barely comprehensible at times & appear very naive - not just here but in our previous 'dialogue'.

What you need to do is lose the blinkers & the ear plugs, find a historian, sit down & have a long conversation. Then, & I cannot stress this enough, you need to get yourself some books & read.

if u didnt believe america was the reason ww2 was won by the allies, your just wrong

how many times do i have to repeat myself when i say it wasnt because of fear? can you not comprehend that when you are attacked, you fight back? fear has nothing to do with it, you dont just let ur troops get killed and NOT retaliate...

thats bullshit! you sed "The USA was not attacked because it was a threat to the axis of power, Japan merely sought to conquer more land - not neccessarily the USA at this point - & took an opportunity which presented itself." so let me restate it in easier terms for observers of this conversation "the usa was attacked because japan sought to conquer more land, but not necesarrily the usa". u plainly implied japan was trying to acquire hawaii.

im 16 and educated....stop saying it over and over than! we didnt react because we feared the image it would give us, we reacted because they attacked our shit!

america did not enter for financial reasons...that is just an incorrect fact...this requires no discussion, your just plainly wrong

our investments were not endangered at all yet, the allies were not losing the war, if anything they were winning....

stop repeating your same comments over and over, not only are they repetitive, but false also...its very annoying when an "educated" person refuses to believe the simplest truths and stays close-minded on topics that are fact-based rather than opinion-based, and still hold on to their false truths

you stress the point that u repeat yourself in a pathetic attempt to make me look dumb, when im just trying to correct your numerous mistakes that u refuse to change

so please come of with some decent, TRUE shit so i dont have to sit here and say the same god damn things over and over...ill say my opinion all night long, but the facts that i just keep saying are boring me

 

[Glockmatic]

america did not enter for financial reasons...that is just an incorrect fact...this requires no discussion, your just plainly wrong

That part is debateable. The US loaned the UK and the allies around 2.3 billion USD, but only loaned germany 27 million. It was in the US commercial interest to help the allies win.

 

[Little Skittle]

That part is debateable. The US loaned the UK and the allies around 2.3 billion USD, but only loaned germany 27 million. It was in the US commercial interest to help the allies win.

but we did not have to join the war when we did (since our interests were not threatened), but we DID because we were attacked w/o reason

 

[Glockmatic]

but we did not have to join the war when we did (since our interests were not threatened), but we DID because we were attacked w/o reason

the subs attacked any ship, making trade nearly impossible, and money is a huge interest to the US.

 

[Little Skittle]

ok my fault, it was with reason....but that doesnt justify it, we were neutral (yes we did lend money to the uk but we also lent money to germany...and we werent involved in fighting)

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

if u didnt believe america was the reason ww2 was won by the allies, your just wrong

how many times do i have to repeat myself when i say it wasnt because of fear? can you not comprehend that when you are attacked, you fight back? fear has nothing to do with it, you dont just let ur troops get killed and NOT retaliate...

thats bullshit! you sed "The USA was not attacked because it was a threat to the axis of power, Japan merely sought to conquer more land - not neccessarily the USA at this point - & took an opportunity which presented itself." so let me restate it in easier terms for observers of this conversation "the usa was attacked because japan sought to conquer more land, but not necesarrily the usa". u plainly implied japan was trying to acquire hawaii.

im 16 and educated....stop saying it over and over than! we didnt react because we feared the image it would give us, we reacted because they attacked our shit!

america did not enter for financial reasons...that is just an incorrect fact...this requires no discussion, your just plainly wrong

our investments were not endangered at all yet, the allies were not losing the war, if anything they were winning....

stop repeating your same comments over and over, not only are they repetitive, but false also...its very annoying when an "educated" person refuses to believe the simplest truths and stays close-minded on topics that are fact-based rather than opinion-based, and still hold on to their false truths

you stress the point that u repeat yourself in a pathetic attempt to make me look dumb, when im just trying to correct your numerous mistakes that u refuse to change

so please come of with some decent, TRUE shit so i dont have to sit here and say the same god damn things over and over...ill say my opinion all night long, but the facts that i just keep saying are boring me

I like your style man, I don't agree with you so how do you rebut, 'your wrong' (notice how I quoted you with the illiteracy intact). Just about sums you up...

LOL!! Don't even attempt to bitch about having to repeat yourself. And it was out of fear. Retaliate you say? When did America launch it's retaliation & where did it strike?

I plainly implied?? I can say in all honestly that I never even thought of Japan trying to conquer Hawaii. No subliminals, no intended connotations. You let your imagination run away with yourself. Check back, I never once mentioned Japan conquering Hawaii & you know why? Because it wasn't on my mind.

What was your reaction to Japan 'attacking' American 'shit'? Before you said that the USA declared war on Germany in response to the Germans declaring war on the US. This is what entered them into WWII, so make your mind up.

Again with the debate skills, no rebuttal, just 'your plainly wrong' (check the literacy again, you're good!!)

Your investments were not in danger? Again, ask a historian. Also try to be perceptive & grasp the abstract concept that I keep going on about, the one about 'thinking ahead'.

I could use that third last paragraph if the comedy of English errors were corrected & the word 'intelligent' was removed all together.

Again, with the second last paragraph, debating skills & wealth of knowledge burn bright.

The last paragraph concludes with another example of your intelligence.

Now wait, you've just coaxed me into making a post devoid of any real comment. I would feel guilty, but it's fighting fire with fire.

You know, you speak of truth & facts, yet you fail to understand what they are. Really, this is the second time you have portrayed yourself as an imbecile & to continue to do so even makes me cringe, so please stop. And just to let you know, I'm not the only the poster who has noticed the alarmingly low IQ you possess....

 

[Morris]

I think you'll find I said Pearl Harbour exposed America as slow & weak. When did I comment on other events? I didn't, so hush.

Actually, we just guessed wrong on where the attack was coming. We figured they'd strike the Phillipines, which they did hours after Pearl Harbor. Since we couldn't locate the Japanese fleet, and since Hawaii is closer to us than Japan, we didn't think the attack would be there.

WWI however, was. Why did you wait until you were attacked? Well, that can be answered in another question: why did the US government send a submarine into hostile territory?

Only Germany had submarines during WWI. We went to war with Germany for a few reasons.

You see, in order to go to war, it helps to have a reason - however unhonourable & false that reason may be. A nation's debt recollection was not on people's top ten of 'what I want to die for'.

Debt was not an issue during WWI. We traded with both sides, tried to maintain neutrality, and after our trade ships were sunk, we joined the Allied powers. The Germans may very well have been justified in blockading British ports, but to do so they had to shoot at neutral ships, including our's. There was also that whole thing about Germany offering to help Mexico reclaim lands taken from Mexico in the 1848 war.

picture the US government telling it's people the truth & blatantly stating, 'we don't know if Saddam has chemical weapons & we don't really care, we're invading Iraq & stealing her oil to make the rich richer & that's the end of it'.

That wouldn't be the truth.

And again, if you could bear with me & be literate for a minute this would be smoother. America didn't owe us anything hence the use of 'she' & 'their'. Britain & France however, were in deep, deep debt to the US who had sold them materials with a nice chunk of interest ni the repayment deal. Had Britain & France fallen, America would've never seen her money again.

The United States of America never collected on the payment, regardless of interest. And the US knew full well the loans would likely never be repaid based on the seriousness of the crisis economically.

 

[Little Skittle]

I like your style man, I don't agree with you so how do you rebut, 'your wrong' (notice how I quoted you with the illiteracy intact). Just about sums you up...

LOL!! Don't even attempt to bitch about having to repeat yourself. And it was out of fear. Retaliate you say? When did America launch it's retaliation & where did it strike?

I plainly implied?? I can say in all honestly that I never even thought of Japan trying to conquer Hawaii. No subliminals, no intended connotations. You let your imagination run away with yourself. Check back, I never once mentioned Japan conquering Hawaii & you know why? Because it wasn't on my mind.

What was your reaction to Japan 'attacking' American 'shit'? Before you said that the USA declared war on Germany in response to the Germans declaring war on the US. This is what entered them into WWII, so make your mind up.

Again with the debate skills, no rebuttal, just 'your plainly wrong' (check the literacy again, you're good!!)

Your investments were not in danger? Again, ask a historian. Also try to be perceptive & grasp the abstract concept that I keep going on about, the one about 'thinking ahead'.

I could use that third last paragraph if the comedy of English errors were corrected & the word 'intelligent' was removed all together.

Again, with the second last paragraph, debating skills & wealth of knowledge burn bright.

The last paragraph concludes with another example of your intelligence.

Now wait, you've just coaxed me into making a post devoid of any real comment. I would feel guilty, but it's fighting fire with fire.

You know, you speak of truth & facts, yet you fail to understand what they are. Really, this is the second time you have portrayed yourself as an imbecile & to continue to do so even makes me cringe, so please stop. And just to let you know, I'm not the only the poster who has noticed the alarmingly low IQ you possess....

I wouldn't say that you were wrong, if this were an opinion question, however, it's a matter of facts, so one of us has to be wrong.

You should just give up your whole 'fear' theory, because it's obviously not true. For example, if someone killed your mom, would you attack them? You would wouldn't you? Okay, now did you attack them because you were pissed that they killed your mom, or because of fear that they might come back for you? It's pretty obvious that you'd be upset that they killed your mom. Hoping my analogy was easy enough for you to catch. Now, with that said, I can get to the real point. Our response was declaring war on Japan, and our most notable "attacks" were the nuclear arms at Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

You said that Japan attacked America because it sought to conquer more land. If you weren't implying that Japan was trying to gain control of Hawaii, than please explain what you meant, because it seems pretty obvious that that is what you meant.

The reaction was declaring war on Japan. I already said this. Okay, now here's where it gets complicated, try to keep up. We declared war on Japan. In response, Germany declared war on us. In response to that, we declared war back on Germany. So, when the U.S. declared war on Germany, it officially put us into World War II. But (are you ready for this?), Japan attacking us sparked the beginning of our entry! See, it's a whole cause/effect relationship! Too complicated? I hope not!

Okay, I've been trying to use lamen's terms for you this whole time, but it has not been working, so I will dumb it down another level for you! Here goes....

When I say "You're plainly wrong", it's not because I believe you're wrong, it's because you ARE wrong. When there are facts, you can either be right or wrong. When there are opinions, you can niether be right nor wrong. This is a conversation based on facts. Therefore, when I say you're wrong, it's not because I disagree with you, it's because your facts are not right.

Thinking ahead is wonderful. It really is. However, it is extremely unnecessary in this case. Why would America choose to attack if there was a possibility that they didn't need to? The allies were doing fine for themselves in the war, and I realize that America wanted them to win. Okay, here's another example. You have a friend who is extremely physically fit. He gets in a fight with a kid a few years younger than him. Halfway through the fight, it is obvious your friend will most likely win. Do you jump in and fight the little guy, or let your friend take care of it because he has it under control? I'm not sure what you would do, but I would let my friend take care of it.

Do you really think that it bothers me that you and maybe a few people on this board don't think I have a high IQ? Do you know me in real life or just from this board? I've made it clear in this post that I can be grammatically perfect if I want to be. Yet, I find it no use since it's a waste of time, when I'm just posting on an internet message board.

P.S. Do you think a person with an IQ as low as mine can get 4.0's in school? Or how about being only a sophomore and taking college classes? Or how about being in the National Honor Society? Or how about recieving letters from MENSA? Or how about reading Machiavelli's "The Prince" before I finished 8th grade? Next time you make assumptions, you should know me before you notice my alarmingly low IQ. :thumb:

 

[Glockmatic]

P.S. Do you think a person with an IQ as low as mine can get 4.0's in school? Or how about being only a sophomore and taking college classes? Or how about being in the National Honor Society? Or how about recieving letters from MENSA? Or how about reading Machiavelli's "The Prince" before I finished 8th grade? Next time you make assumptions, you should know me before you notice my alarmingly low IQ.

prove that stuff, cus i can say i won a nobel peace prize and have a billion dollars.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Only Germany had submarines during WWI. We went to war with Germany for a few reasons.

I was replying to something Little Skittle said in which he used a submarine reference, thanks for proving him wrong.

The United States of America never collected on the payment, regardless of interest. And the US knew full well the loans would likely never be repaid based on the seriousness of the crisis economically.

Like I may've said to you in the past, there is more than one way to reclaim a debt, sometimes you find the repayment in a different form from that in which you loaned it.