War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - by Noam Chomsky

#1
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - by Noam Chomsky
The terms of political discourse typically have two meanings. One is the dictionary meaning, and the other is a meaning that is useful for serving power -- the doctrinal meaning.

Take democracy. According to the common-sense meaning, a society is democratic to the extent that people can participate in a meaningful way in managing their affairs. But the doctrinal meaning of democracy is different -- it refers to a system in which decisions are made by sectors of the business community and related elites. The public are to be only "spectators of action," not "participants," as leading democratic theorists (in this case, Walter Lippmann) have explained. They are permitted to ratify the decisions of their betters and to lend their support to one or another of them, but not to interfere with matters -- like public policy -- that are none of their business.

If segments of the public depart from their apathy and begin to organize and enter the public arena, that's not democracy. Rather, it's a crisis of democracy in proper technical usage, a threat that has to be overcome in one or another way: in El Salvador, by death squads -- at home, by more subtle and indirect means.

Or take free enterprise, a term that refers, in practice, to a system of public subsidy and private profit, with massive government intervention in the economy to maintain a welfare state for the rich. In fact, in acceptable usage, just about any phrase containing the word "free" is likely to mean something like the opposite of its actual meaning.

Or take defense against aggression, a phrase that's used -- predictably -- to refer to aggression. When the US attacked South Vietnam in the early 1960s, the liberal hero Adlai Stevenson (among others) explained that we were defending South Vietnam against "internal aggression" -- that is, the aggression of South Vietnamese peasants against the US air force and a US-run mercenary army, which were driving them out of their homes and into concentration camps where they could be "protected" from the southern guerrillas. In fact, these peasants willingly supported the guerillas, while the US client regime was an empty shell, as was agreed on all sides.

So magnificently has the doctrinal system risen to its task that to this day, 30 years later, the idea that the US attacked South Vietnam is unmentionable, even unthinkable, in the mainstream. The essential issues of the war are, correspondingly, beyond any possibility of discussion now. The guardians of political correctness (the real PC) can be quite proud of an achievement that would be hard to duplicate in a well-run totalitarian state.

Or take the term peace process. The naive might think that it refers to efforts to seek peace. Under this meaning, we would say that the peace process in the Middle East includes, for example, the offer of a full peace treaty to Israel by President Sadat of Egypt in 1971, along lines advocated by virtually the entire world, including official US policy; the Security Council resolution of January 1976 introduced by the major Arab states with the backing of the PLO, which called for a two-state settlement of the Arab-Israel conflict in the terms of a near-universal international consensus; PLO offers through the 1980s to negotiate with Israel for mutual recognition; and annual votes at the UN General Assembly, most recently in December 1990 (voted 144-2), calling for an international conference on the Israel-Arab problem, etc.

But the sophisticated understand that these efforts do not form part of the peace process. The reason is that in the PC meaning, the term peace process refers to what the US government is doing -- in the cases mentioned, this is to block international efforts to seek peace. The cases cited do not fall within the peace process, because the US backed Israel's rejection of Sadat's offer, vetoed the Security Council resolution, opposed negotiations and mutual recognition of the PLO and Israel, and regularly joins with Israel in opposing -- thereby, in effect, vetoing -- any attempt to move towards a peaceful diplomatic settlement at the UN or elsewhere.

The peace process is restricted to US initiatives, which call for a unilateral US-determined settlement with no recognition of Palestinian national rights. That's the way it works. Those who cannot master these skills must seek another profession.

There are many other examples. Take the term special interest. The well-oiled Republican PR systems of the 1980s regularly accused the Democrats of being the party of the special interests: women, labor, the elderly, the young, farmers -- in short, the general population. There was only one sector of the population never listed as a special interest: corporations and business generally. That makes sense. In PC discourse their (special) interests are the national interest, to which all must bow.

The Democrats plaintively retorted that they were not the party of the special interests: they served the national interest too. That was correct, but their problem has been that they lack the single-minded class consciousness of their Republican opponents. The latter are not confused about their role as representatives of the owners and managers of the society, who are fighting a bitter class war against the general population -- often adopting vulgar Marxist rhetoric and concepts, resorting to jingoist hysteria, fear and terror, awe of great leaders and the other standard devices of population control. The Democrats are less clear about their allegiances, hence less effective in the propaganda wars.

Finally, take the term conservative, which has come to refer to advocates of a powerful state, which interferes massively in the economy and in social life. They advocate huge state expenditures and a postwar peak of protectionist measures and insurance against market risk, narrowing individual liberties through legislation and court-packing, protecting the Holy State from unwarranted inspection by the irrelevant citizenry -- in short, those programs that are the precise opposite of traditional conservatism. Their allegiance is to "the people who own the country" and therefore "ought to govern it," in the words of Founding Father John Jay.

It's really not that hard, once one understands the rules.

To make sense of political discourse, it's necessary to give a running translation into English, decoding the doublespeak of the media, academic social scientists and the secular priesthood generally. Its function is not obscure: the effect is to make it impossible to find words to talk about matters of human significance in a coherent way. We can then be sure that little will be understood about how our society works and what is happening in the world -- a major contribution to democracy, in the PC sense of the word.
 
#2
Harry_potter said:
We can then be sure that little will be understood about how our society works and what is happening in the world -- a major contribution to democracy, in the PC sense of the word.
Well we understand it now, Chomsky! I like the way he writes, he makes everything seem so obvious.
 

Amara

New Member
#5
MC mufasa said:
Meh.

He's an anarchist.

International politics is conducted in a state of anarchy. Chomsky is a political theorist. So .... you are saying he is a man who associates with the political system he writes on.... well, fancy that....:eek:
 
#6
^ What's your point? I didn't read what he had to say.

Frankly, anything coming from an anarchist's perspective is close to garbage.
 

Amara

New Member
#7
MC mufasa said:
^ What's your point? I didn't read what he had to say.

Frankly, anything coming from an anarchist's perspective is close to garbage.
If you are too lazy to read the article, dont post nonsensical responses about such a well respected and intelligent political theorist.
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
#8
MC mufasa said:
^ What's your point? I didn't read what he had to say.

Frankly, anything coming from an anarchist's perspective is close to garbage.
Im curious, how many of Chomsky's books have you read that have brought you to the conclusion that he is an anarchist, and what he says is garbage?
 
#9
That is so rife with mistakes. It also sounds like a very very poor version of Karl Barth's section on Religious Language in Church Dogmatics. However that being said from what I know of the things he's talking about (which doesn't include the Egypt-Israel peace treaty, say, or how much American government "subsidies" to business run to), it looks to me as if he's got a point, and one that needs making. Especially in the last paragraph. It's polemical and provocative and selective, obviously, and written for non-specialists, but I wouldn't presume to simply dismiss as rubbish the views of somebody of Chomsky's intelligence
 
#14
Rukas said:
Prove you wrong? Hahahaha... Come on, prove yourself right.

How many books or works of Chomsky have you read to make you certain he isn't what I state he is?


Since you wanted it your way, ill prove myself correct:

"Chomsky has declared himself a libertarian and anarchist but has defended some of the most authoritarian and murderous regimes in human history. His political philosophy is purportedly based on empowering the oppressed and toiling masses but he has contempt for ordinary people who he regards as ignorant dupes of the privileged and the powerful. He has defined the responsibility of the intellectual as the pursuit of truth and the exposure of lies, but has supported the regimes he admires by suppressing the truth and perpetrating falsehoods. He has endorsed universal moral principles but has only applied them to Western liberal democracies, while continuing to rationalize the crimes of his own political favorites. He is a mandarin who denounces mandarins. When caught out making culpably irresponsible misjudgments, as he was over Cambodia and Sudan, he has never admitted he was wrong."

- Written by Keith Windschuttle.


And here is an interview with Noam Chomsky, where he clearly admits that he is an anarchist, and why anarchism appeals to him so much:

Noam Chomsky is widely known for his critique of U.S foreign policy, and for his work as a linguist. Less well known is his ongoing support for libertarian socialist objectives. In a special interview done for Red and Black Revolution, Chomsky gives his views on anarchism and marxism, and the prospects for socialism now. The interview was conducted in May 1995 by Kevin Doyle.

RBR: First off, Noam, for quite a time now you've been an advocate for the anarchist idea. Many people are familiar with the introduction you wrote in 1970 to Daniel Guerin's Anarchism, but more recently, for instance in the film Manufacturing Consent, you took the opportunity to highlight again the potential of anarchism and the anarchist idea. What is it that attracts you to anarchism?

CHOMSKY: I was attracted to anarchism as a young teenager, as soon as I began to think about the world beyond a pretty narrow range, and haven't seen much reason to revise those early attitudes since. I think it only makes sense to seek out and identify structures of authority, hierarchy, and domination in every aspect of life, and to challenge them; unless a justification for them can be given, they are illegitimate, and should be dismantled, to increase the scope of human freedom.


Want more proof? I found this on wikipedia.

"Chomsky remembers the first article he wrote was at the age of ten, and was about the threat of the spread of fascism, following the fall of Barcelona. From the age of twelve or thirteen he identified more fully with anarchist politics.....He defines himself in the tradition of anarchism, a political philosophy he summarizes as challenging all forms of hierarchy and attempting to eliminate them if they are unjustified...."


AnarchistFunk said:
thats funny, cuz i think the same thing about you

read some chomsky before you make ignorant unfounded comments

I know my shit - obviously you don't. And it's obvious my comments aren't "ignorant" and "unfounded" as you so fervently put. Chomsky being an anarchist is fact, exactly how I put it - and I supported my statement with evidence. Now, please, enlighten me. You obviously assumed I hadn't read any of his works and that I knew nothing of him, thus it implies that you have read some of his works and books etc... but anyone who knows Chomsky knows he is an anarchist - so this ultimately makes you look like a fool now doesn't it? Think before you type next time.


Rukas said:
Prove you wrong? Hahahaha... Come on, prove yourself right.
Done.
 
#15
MC mufasa said:
I know my shit - obviously you don't. And it's obvious my comments aren't "ignorant" and "unfounded" as you so fervently put. Chomsky being an anarchist is fact, exactly how I put it - and I supported my statement with evidence. Now, please, enlighten me. You obviously assumed I hadn't read any of his works and that I knew nothing of him, thus it implies that you have read some of his works and books etc... but anyone who knows Chomsky knows he is an anarchist - so this ultimately makes you look like a fool now doesn't it? Think before you type next time.
i never said chomsky wasn't an anarchist lol

i was saying your retarded for saying anything that comes out of a anarchists mouth is garbage

you wrote awhole post trying to prove chomsky's an anarchist :rolleyes: hes one of the most famous living anarchists there is, not very hard to do

i was saying you were stupid for saying what comes out of his mouth is garbage
 
#16
AnarchistFunk said:
i never said chomsky wasn't an anarchist lol

i was saying your retarded for saying anything that comes out of a anarchists mouth is garbage

you wrote awhole post trying to prove chomsky's an anarchist :rolleyes: hes one of the most famous living anarchists there is, not very hard to do

i was saying you were stupid for saying what comes out of his mouth is garbage


Ummm yeh, ok. I was asked to prove why i came to the conclusion that Chomsky's an anarchist by Rukas.

He's only famous because he is controversial. How about you read a little about him, critiques aswell, before you come here and try to make me look like a fool.
 
#18
MC mufasa said:
How many books or works of Chomsky have you read to make you certain he isn't what I state he is?


Since you wanted it your way, ill prove myself correct:

"Chomsky has declared himself a libertarian and anarchist but has defended some of the most authoritarian and murderous regimes in human history. His political philosophy is purportedly based on empowering the oppressed and toiling masses but he has contempt for ordinary people who he regards as ignorant dupes of the privileged and the powerful. He has defined the responsibility of the intellectual as the pursuit of truth and the exposure of lies, but has supported the regimes he admires by suppressing the truth and perpetrating falsehoods. He has endorsed universal moral principles but has only applied them to Western liberal democracies, while continuing to rationalize the crimes of his own political favorites. He is a mandarin who denounces mandarins. When caught out making culpably irresponsible misjudgments, as he was over Cambodia and Sudan, he has never admitted he was wrong."

- Written by Keith Windschuttle.


And here is an interview with Noam Chomsky, where he clearly admits that he is an anarchist, and why anarchism appeals to him so much:

Noam Chomsky is widely known for his critique of U.S foreign policy, and for his work as a linguist. Less well known is his ongoing support for libertarian socialist objectives. In a special interview done for Red and Black Revolution, Chomsky gives his views on anarchism and marxism, and the prospects for socialism now. The interview was conducted in May 1995 by Kevin Doyle.

RBR: First off, Noam, for quite a time now you've been an advocate for the anarchist idea. Many people are familiar with the introduction you wrote in 1970 to Daniel Guerin's Anarchism, but more recently, for instance in the film Manufacturing Consent, you took the opportunity to highlight again the potential of anarchism and the anarchist idea. What is it that attracts you to anarchism?

CHOMSKY: I was attracted to anarchism as a young teenager, as soon as I began to think about the world beyond a pretty narrow range, and haven't seen much reason to revise those early attitudes since. I think it only makes sense to seek out and identify structures of authority, hierarchy, and domination in every aspect of life, and to challenge them; unless a justification for them can be given, they are illegitimate, and should be dismantled, to increase the scope of human freedom.


Want more proof? I found this on wikipedia.

"Chomsky remembers the first article he wrote was at the age of ten, and was about the threat of the spread of fascism, following the fall of Barcelona. From the age of twelve or thirteen he identified more fully with anarchist politics.....He defines himself in the tradition of anarchism, a political philosophy he summarizes as challenging all forms of hierarchy and attempting to eliminate them if they are unjustified...."





I know my shit - obviously you don't. And it's obvious my comments aren't "ignorant" and "unfounded" as you so fervently put. Chomsky being an anarchist is fact, exactly how I put it - and I supported my statement with evidence. Now, please, enlighten me. You obviously assumed I hadn't read any of his works and that I knew nothing of him, thus it implies that you have read some of his works and books etc... but anyone who knows Chomsky knows he is an anarchist - so this ultimately makes you look like a fool now doesn't it? Think before you type next time.




Done.
Listen Lion King!

1) Rukas never said Chomsky was not an Anarchist.

2) I don't think you fully get what Anarchy really is! ( I to used to think it was silly till i educated myself).

Anarchy is not a lack of Order leading to Chaos, it is a society without Authority. which I find very attractive, perhaps you need someone telling you what and how to do things but I myself do not and feel society as a whole dose not.

I have just recently started to study Anarchy and have found many arguments for it to be full of truthful observations, not yet convinced it would be the Ideal social structure yet I know for certain that the one we live under now is not Ideal.


Done
 
#19
AnarchistFunk said:
i never said chomsky wasn't an anarchist lol

i was saying your retarded for saying anything that comes out of a anarchists mouth is garbage

you wrote awhole post trying to prove chomsky's an anarchist :rolleyes: hes one of the most famous living anarchists there is, not very hard to do

i was saying you were stupid for saying what comes out of his mouth is garbage
:thumb:

I need to catch you on MSN so we can chat about Chomsky and the like in the near future.

what Book of Noam's is your favorite?
 
#20
Harry_potter said:
Listen Lion King!

1) Rukas never said Chomsky was not an Anarchist.

2) I don't think you fully get what Anarchy really is! ( I to used to think it was silly till i educated myself).

Anarchy is not a lack of Order leading to Chaos, it is a society without Authority. which I find very attractive, perhaps you need someone telling you what and how to do things but I myself do not and feel society as a whole dose not.

I have just recently started to study Anarchy and have found many arguments for it to be full of truthful observations, not yet convinced it would be the Ideal social structure yet I know for certain that the one we live under now is not Ideal.


Done

I know what Anarchy is you moron. Chomsky's own definition of Anarchy is pretty much stated in what I posted earlier.

And that's great if you think a society with no authority is "ideal". Good for you Mr Potter :)

Maybe YOU don't need to be told to do anything because you've grown up with the laws that exist in society, and thus you know what is wrong and right - so obviously you have some sort of morals and values which have derived from laws and regulations.

And frankly, if you grow up without any authority then it's most likely you'll live without authority or any restrictions and limitations to your behaviour. If you have grown up into a world where you have never been bound by law or limitations then, i suppose, you can guess what is a potential consequence.

And perhaps our society structure/system may not be so ideal, but as far as im concerned it's more ideal than anarchy.



---------------------

I'm aware that Rukas never said that he wasn't an anarchist. But obviously he implied it seeing as he asked me to show some evidence of it. The fact that he told me to "proove it", shows to me that he did not beleive that what i was saying was true.


And LMAO @ You wanting to talk to AnarchistFunk about Chomsky when that dude has no idea!


Done, once more.
 

Latest posts

Donate

Any donations will be used to help pay for the site costs, and anything donated above will be donated to C-Dub's son on behalf of this community.

Members online

No members online now.
Top