The Retirement Age is Too High

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
#1
This article is spot-on.

Actually, The Retirement Age is Too High | CommonDreams.org

The most dangerous conventional wisdom in the world today is the idea that with an older population, people must work longer and retire with less.

This idea is being used to rationalize cuts in old-age benefits in numerous advanced countries -- most recently in France, and soon in the United States. The cuts are disguised as increases in the minimum retirement age or as increases in the age at which full pensions will be paid.

Such cuts have a perversely powerful logic: "We" are living longer. There are fewer workers to support each elderly person. Therefore "we" should work longer.

But in the first place, "we" are not living longer. Wealthier elderly are; the non-wealthy not so much. Raising the retirement age cuts benefits for those who can't wait to retire and who often won't live long. Meanwhile, richer people with soft jobs work on: For them, it's an easy call.

Second, many workers retire because they can't find jobs. They're unemployed -- or expect to become so. Extending the retirement age for them just means a longer job search, a futile waste of time and effort.

Third, we don't need the workers. Productivity gains and cheap imports mean that we can and do enjoy far more farm and factory goods than our forebears, with much less effort. Only a small fraction of today's workers make things. Our problem is finding worthwhile work for people to do, not finding workers to produce the goods we consume.

In the United States, the financial crisis has left the country with 11 million fewer jobs than Americans need now. No matter how aggressive the policy, we are not going to find 11 million new jobs soon. So common sense suggests we should make some decisions about who should have the first crack: older people, who have already worked three or four decades at hard jobs? Or younger people, many just out of school, with fresh skills and ambitions?

The answer is obvious. Older people who would like to retire and would do so if they could afford it should get some help. The right step is to reduce, not increase, the full-benefits retirement age. As a rough cut, why not enact a three-year window during which the age for receiving full Social Security benefits would drop to 62 -- providing a voluntary, one-time, grab-it-now bonus for leaving work? Let them go home! With a secure pension and medical care, they will be happier. Young people who need work will be happier. And there will also be more jobs. With pension security, older people will consume services until the end of their lives. They will become, each and every one, an employer.

A proposal like this could transform a miserable jobs picture into a tolerable one, at a single stroke.
 

Sebastian

Well-Known Member
#2
As far as i understand it, the key question is, if the productivity gains compensate the couple of million more people who are jobless or are retiring before the full-benefits retirement age. Is that the case?

Im not sure because the system in the US could be a different one than in Germany.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#4
While the retirement age is similar the way things work in reality are different. Also, here the retirement age is lower. It used to be 52, then 55. Now it's at least 60 I believe. However pensions are hilariously low (unless you're a past-military, past-commie etc.). So yeah despite the age barrier being low our system sucks big time.

I believe there's no simple answer to that matter. I won't lie, I didn't do my research on how it works in America.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#5
In Britain due to EU law, you can work as long as you want.

I now work with an incompetent over 65 year old who is getting a pension which is 70% of his wage, plus his usual wages. I'd imagine his earnings before tax are about £12K a month.

To be fair though... He was incompetent the whole time he worked here, and should never have been employed. But he did tick a few minority boxes... Maybe that was why...
 

ARon

Well-Known Member
#6
Obama's healthcare bill can help with this a little bit. Republicans have been frantically saying that his bill will cut jobs, which is partly true, some old people working won't need to work anymore because they will have coverage provided that they would otherwise get from their job. There is a lot more detail to be added about how it'll work if it does work. But yeah I think we need to help our elders a lot more.
 

Synful*Luv

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#7
In Britain due to EU law, you can work as long as you want.

I now work with an incompetent over 65 year old who is getting a pension which is 70% of his wage, plus his usual wages. I'd imagine his earnings before tax are about £12K a month.

To be fair though... He was incompetent the whole time he worked here, and should never have been employed. But he did tick a few minority boxes... Maybe that was why...
Does it work like that in England as well? As far as a person getting an edge for being a minority (not for everything.. just a few jobs or school)?

There's a ridiculous policy in place in IL with CPD and CFD. Somehow being a minority replaces being qualified. Um.. I don't care if the person putting out my fire is Latina/Black/White.. but I would like to know that they passed the tests and can read/write.

Sorry, off topic. Carry on.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#8
^^

Positive discrimination. I am unsure as to my stance on it, as to whether it is good or bad. The answer to your question is yes.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#9
Obama's healthcare bill can help with this a little bit. Republicans have been frantically saying that his bill will cut jobs, which is partly true, some old people working won't need to work anymore because they will have coverage provided that they would otherwise get from their job. There is a lot more detail to be added about how it'll work if it does work. But yeah I think we need to help our elders a lot more.
Obama's healthcare bills will create shitloads of pointless jobs. A huge part of your pension and/or healthcare money will be wasted/"stolen" (depending on the strategy). Most things that are "public" are not good for those who do anything really productive to earn money.
 

Synful*Luv

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#10
^^

Positive discrimination. I am unsure as to my stance on it, as to whether it is good or bad. The answer to your question is yes.
My stance varies.. but your ethnic origin should never count above your qualifications. IDC if it's work related or school related. Either you have the skills or you don't. *shrug*

Obama's healthcare bills will create shitloads of pointless jobs. A huge part of your pension and/or healthcare money will be wasted/"stolen" (depending on the strategy). Most things that are "public" are not good for those who do anything really productive to earn money.
The other bad thing is usually private companies can't compete with the larger "public" option. Then the government gets too big and monopolizes whatever the area of question is.. screwing over options for the rest of us. Not to mention, working productive members of society end up paying out the arse not only for our own (usually mediocre) coverage (if healthcare) as well as for the welfare recipients. Makes no sense.
 

ARon

Well-Known Member
#11
Obama's healthcare bills will create shitloads of pointless jobs. A huge part of your pension and/or healthcare money will be wasted/"stolen" (depending on the strategy). Most things that are "public" are not good for those who do anything really productive to earn money.
What jobs aren't pointless? If those really productive people don;t want the public option than they can easily go with the private option.

The other bad thing is usually private companies can't compete with the larger "public" option. Then the government gets too big and monopolizes whatever the area of question is.. screwing over options for the rest of us. Not to mention, working productive members of society end up paying out the arse not only for our own (usually mediocre) coverage (if healthcare) as well as for the welfare recipients. Makes no sense.
I'm in full belief that a public option would drive prices downwards. That's not something I don't want. I want these private companies to compete with a cheaper less expensive public option because right now the private companies have their own monopoly and prices are beyond ridiculous. Our healthcare system is out of hand, the private companies that people so cherish are pretty damn evil. I'm not saying a public option would be any different but at least it would benefit us more than letting the companies in charge now continue their profits.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#12
What jobs aren't pointless? If those really productive people don;t want the public option than they can easily go with the private option.
They will HAVE to pay, they have no choice. The problem with systems like this is that people who don't want to pay for people who are too lazy to take care of themselves have to pay for them regardless.

Administration is amongst pointless jobs. Public administration is one of the worst things that can happen to a country - the more of it the worse it'll be.
 

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