The Abuse of Islam in Political Rhetoric

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#1
It is becoming fashionable for elected officials in the Anglo-American world, notably in the United States and the United Kingdom, to employ abusive language involving Islam. Phrases such as "Islamic terrorism," "totalitarian Islam," "crimes of Islam," and "Islamic fascism" are freely used, with sadist disrespect, to condemn real and imagined terrorists who practice the faith of Islam. For years, and long before the 9/11 attacks, neo-conservative scholarship has been determined to popularize the concept of the essentialist terrorist [PDF] who purportedly draws his deepest inspiration from the puritanical beliefs of Islam and equipped with cruelty, commits violence against innocent Jews and Christians. According to this, occupations, invasions, territorial thefts, assassinations, house demolitions, human rights violations, and other such grievances have nothing to do with Islamic resistance. Islamic terrorism, according to neo-conservative scholarship, stems from the Sharia, from passages of the Quran, and from a puritanical mindset that manufactures pretexts to maim and kill. These killers, it is further contended, wish to impose Islamic law over the entire world.

Gradually but successfully, the propagandized essentialist terrorist and the attendant abusive language against Islam have entered political rhetoric. Presidents, prime ministers, congressmen, senators, and other officials are now freely using abusive language to malign Islam, not through uncaught moments of Freudian slips but as a policy of expressive audacity.

Commenting on the alleged plan of British nationals of Pakistani descent to blow up US-bound planes over the Atlantic, President Bush said: "This is a stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists." Senator Rick Santorum distinguishes between terrorism and Islamic fascism, arguing that terrorism is a tactic but what the West is fighting is "Islamic fascism" which is "truly evil" and which is "as big a threat today as Nazism and communism."

This new trend to openly curse Islam echoes the words of UK Prime Minister Tony Blair, who said: "We should not be apologetic or defensive in defining the problems of terrorism."

One wonders why elected officials in supposedly democratic nations, which tout the principles of equal respect and dignity for all, use abusive language to wound the sentiments of more than a billion people across the world. Several explanations come to mind.

First, the abusive language may be described as an effect of an over-generalization. Suppose that Muslim militants indeed wish to impose Islam on the Anglo-American world, a supposition that even the militants would ridicule as blatant propaganda to infuriate domestic audiences. Though mounted on a questionable supposition, the label is accurate to the extent that the use of violence to forcibly modify the values of a foreign nation is indeed fascism - a definition that, ironically, would also paint President Bush as an American fascist for his forcible democratization of Afghanistan and Iraq. Even if President Bush were declared a fascist, it would be wrong to describe his foreign policy as American fascism because that is tantamount to over- as well as mis-generalization.

Islamic fascism as a descriptive label also fails to capture the limited meaning of describing militants who are supposedly fascists. The label comes across as a prescriptive indictment, suggesting that Islam is intolerant, violent, and aggressively self-righteous in imposing its values on non-Islamic cultures. If Anglo-American politicians are using the label in this broad sense, and thus accusing Islam and not merely the militants, they should say so. If they are using the label in a limited sense and do not wish to antagonize the entire Muslim world or malign the faith of Islam, they must abandon the label. The label of Islamic fascism even in a limited sense is not an intelligent use of the language, for it is susceptible to multiple interpretations. Its use in the broad sense is highly provocative and counterproductive to the war on terrorism. It foolishly alienates all Muslims.

Second, there might be a democratic argument for politicians using abusive language involving Islam. But no American politician would describe pedophilia scandals in some Catholic churches as Catholic pedophilia. Such an over-generalization would be politically unwise because no prudent politician would want to lose Catholic money and votes. Likewise, no politician would use abusive language against Jews or Judaism for fear of alienating that community, not to mention the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), which keeps a close tab on what American politicians are saying and doing. Because American Muslims do not have loads of money, lobbying clout, or votes, however, they constitute a minority that can be easily sacrificed and trashed. If this is the reason behind abusive rhetoric against Islam, however, it reveals a sad truth about democracy in general and American democracy in particular which has had a tainted record when it comes to the abusive treatment of minorities including native Indians, Blacks, and others.

Third, there seems to exist an unexamined assumption in American political circles that Islam is a foreign religion, an outsider, the other. Politicians who use abusive language against Islam do not see Islam as part of American multi-religious fabric. Despite their enchantment with secularism, they still see this nation as Christian, perhaps Judeo-Christian, ignoring the fact that millions of Muslims, immigrants and native born, now live in all states of the United States. Hundreds of mosques in America, though under surveillance, furnish indelible signs that Islam has arrived in this country, not to forcibly convert anyone but to enrich American culture, diversity, history, architecture, sciences, and, yes, laws. Let American politicians greet Islam and Muslims with Assalaam ulaikum (peace be upon you) if for no other reason than to remind them that their religion is one of peace and not of violence.
I thought this exactly expresses my view of the recent "abuse" Islam has got.

Discuss?
 

Kareem

Active Member
#2
Couldnt agree more! The typical response to this will be, "why do you muslims always assert yourselves as the victims" or along those lines.Basicly whats going on now is no different then what was done to the Japanese in the 40's or the African American struggle for civil rights in the 50's and 60's. What I mean is, we are the new enemy so the propaganda machine gets started full blast, doing what they can too make us all seem as "sub human" as possible.

99.9999999% of muslims do not believe in terrorism or the destruction of Israel, but of course the media and government love to focus on that 1% that do!An it seems quite a few people on this forum love to bash Islam but if you mention one negative word about Israel your an anti-semite:rolleyes: If we really wanted to probe deep into which religion has had the most acts of terrorism or slaughter, you could definately but christanity at the top of that list.


As far as the U.S. government, everyday they lean more toward Fascism, an people fail too see this. Bush isnt fully to blame he has alot of help.For some reason people in this country seem too think that what happened in Germany cant happen here, bet ya the German people thought the same thing over 60 years ago.

"We come not as conquerors but as liberators" ---Adolf Hitler

see any similarities?
 

PuffnScruff

Well-Known Member
#3
what is the p.c. way to describe people that are terrorist and do it in the name of islam?

of course they are not true to their religion just the same as the kkk were not real christians. i view the two in the same boat.

i dont know if i would really compare nazi germany to what is going on here. nazi germany had help from (insert your word here for crazy muslim religious leader)Mohammad Amin al-Husayni and he probably helped throw fuel on hitlers fire.
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#4
Aye, it's definitely true. Islamic terrorism is the new Soviet Union, the new communists. The new "faction that people should fear" and, even worse, the faction that you are made to fear by the government.

And indeed, often it is also ignored why, how and when people become terrorists. Hearing Bush speak it's as if "the terrorists" are the deepest, blackest, purest evil that has existed since the dawn of the Earth.
There's still a total disregard for the reasons people have to become terrorists. Reasons often invariably linked to Western meddling in their native countries. And in the end, we can only look towards ourselves (i.e. "The" West) for creating most terrorists. But politicians rather pretend that they "just popped into existence".


Other than that, America now and Germany '34 are worlds apart. Pretty crooked comparison imo.
 

Kareem

Active Member
#5
Duke said:
Aye, it's definitely true. Islamic terrorism is the new Soviet Union, the new communists. The new "faction that people should fear" and, even worse, the faction that you are made to fear by the government.

And indeed, often it is also ignored why, how and when people become terrorists. Hearing Bush speak it's as if "the terrorists" are the deepest, blackest, purest evil that has existed since the dawn of the Earth.
There's still a total disregard for the reasons people have to become terrorists. Reasons often invariably linked to Western meddling in their native countries. And in the end, we can only look towards ourselves (i.e. "The" West) for creating most terrorists. But politicians rather pretend that they "just popped into existence".


Other than that, America now and Germany '34 are worlds apart. Pretty crooked comparison imo.

Im not saying its exactly like that, im saying its leaning in that direction. Not so much in the holocaust sense, but the propaganda and rehtoric spewed by the government. Now granted Bush won re election hands down but the 2000 election was a croc, he wasnt elected he was appointed, Hitler wasnt elected he was appointed and soon after his apointment he began his spew of "securing the homeland, put your faith in me, either your with us or against us" an ultimately passing the Nuremburg act which did away with democracy in Germany. He even used sabatage (sp) as a way of justifying his invasion of Poland. In that sense is what im trying to say I see the u.s. becomming a "police state" or a facist state.
 
#6
it's obvious to me that Bush's political advisors have studied the methods of Hitler-era Germany of keeping the population under an umbrella of fear in order to control them and win their support. unfortunately for them, without the ruthless dictatorship of a man like Hitler these methods will never fully work. now don't get me wrong, i'm not comparing Bush to Hitler, but there are definite comparisons to the way they lead their countries
 

Kareem

Active Member
#7
Devious187 said:
it's obvious to me that Bush's political advisors have studied the methods of Hitler-era Germany of keeping the population under an umbrella of fear in order to control them and win their support. unfortunately for them, without the ruthless dictatorship of a man like Hitler these methods will never fully work. now don't get me wrong, i'm not comparing Bush to Hitler, but there are definite comparisons to the way they lead their countries

Thank You! Thats the point I was trying to make!
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#8
Kareem said:
Im not saying its exactly like that, im saying its leaning in that direction. Not so much in the holocaust sense, but the propaganda and rehtoric spewed by the government. Now granted Bush won re election hands down but the 2000 election was a croc, he wasnt elected he was appointed, Hitler wasnt elected he was appointed and soon after his apointment he began his spew of "securing the homeland, put your faith in me, either your with us or against us" an ultimately passing the Nuremburg act which did away with democracy in Germany. He even used sabatage (sp) as a way of justifying his invasion of Poland. In that sense is what im trying to say I see the u.s. becomming a "police state" or a facist state.
Aye, I know what you're saying and you're right when you say that it's going in that direction. But it will never get as bad as Germany '34. The situation is completly different.

I just get a bit tired from comparisons to Hitler's nazi Germany all the time. I mean, Hitler's tactics weren't new or anything. The same ploys have been used for centuries. But comparing it to Nazi Germany has that nice "punch" I guess..makes it sound worse than it is.
 

Glockmatic

Well-Known Member
#9
what is the p.c. way to describe people that are terrorist and do it in the name of islam?
exactly, if the catholic priests molested kids in the name of god they'd be called Catholic-Pedophiles/something similar. If ANY group did something under the guise of a religion or ideal they'd be labelled as such as well.

And like what other posters have stated, the US = Nazi Germany argument is way off
 

jaimie.uk fan

WAKE ME WHEN IM FREE
#10
I cant speak for America but i cant remember Tony Blair or anyone in parliment Attacking Islam until the attack on innocent people in the u.k. or the 9 /11 bombings and the recent attempts of killing at airports etc . Far from it . All religions and races are rightly accepted in the u.k. which is why so many are so desperate to come here.

The hatred certinaly in this country has come from the killings of innocent people in this country and protests in the streets of England calling for the death of western societys . The societys these same people are living in , living off and often born in . These bombings and " protests " are not propaganda but acts carried out by followers of Islam .

How can these actions be made up and shoved to the British public through the media and political speaches . Im sorry but i feel no sympathy for Islamic followers . If your that bothered about your religion being attacked and abused sort out your own house and weed out these followers who are giving it such a bad name . I have not seen one High profile muslim condemn these so called heroes carrying out Jihad .

Why is this ?

Do you have sympathy ?

Is it Because you all agree ?

Or is it because you want 69 virgins yourself ?


There seems to be a lot of finger pointing in the piece Jurhum posted but no fingers pointed at the followers using your so called peaceful religion as a tool to kill innocent peole as an act of so called justice . Like i said if someones dirtying your name surely you should do something about it , if not you would assume your name is spread as dirt .

Propaganda is one thing and you may well be right but you guys realy are giving the ammo to fuel it .
 

TecK NeeX

On Probation: Please report break in guidelines to
#11
jaimie.uk fan said:
I cant speak for America but i cant remember Tony Blair or anyone in parliment Attacking Islam until the attack on innocent people in the u.k.
When did Tony Blair 'attack' Islam?

The hatred certinaly in this country has come from the killings of innocent people in this country and protests in the streets of England calling for the death of western societys . The societys these same people are living in , living off and often born in . These bombings and " protests " are not propaganda but acts carried out by followers of Islam.
Awww the poor English have done nothing wrong to cause this hate by a few Muslims towards the British. They did not fabricate evidence against a country, they did not illegaly invade a country, They did not reduce a high percentage of this country to rubble, They did not kill thousands of its people. Oh no they hate your way of life and want to destroy it. Long live 'Freedom'! the symbol of western society, Shut up Bush!

Im sorry but i feel no sympathy for Islamic followers. If your that bothered about your religion being attacked and abused sort out your own house and weed out these followers who are giving it such a bad name.
Sorry but I feel no sympathy for the english. If you're bothered by your 'society' and your people being attacked sort out your killers from foreign countries and ship them back to where ever the fuck they came from and the killings from both sides will stop.


I have not seen one High profile muslim condemn these so called heroes carrying out Jihad .
Thats because there are no 'high profile Muslims" like the chrisitan pope to condemn such attacks, the highest a Muslim can go is becoming an Imam of a mosque thats it, and i dont know what world you're living in but thousands of Imams have denounced terrorism and condemend any attack on Civilians, you've just been looking in the wrong places, as expected from an ignorant individual such as yourself.

Propaganda is one thing and you may well be right but you guys realy are giving the ammo to fuel it .
The only 'ammo' litteraly being used to fuel this conflict are the thousands of your killers based on Islamic soil. PERIOD.
 

jaimie.uk fan

WAKE ME WHEN IM FREE
#12
Hi teck how you doin :)

When did Tony Blair 'attack' Islam?
Gradually but successfully, the propagandized essentialist terrorist and the attendant abusive language against Islam have entered political rhetoric. Presidents, prime ministers, congressmen, senators, and other officials are now freely using abusive language to malign Islam.

I was answering this part of jurhums post .

Awww the poor English have done nothing wrong to cause this hate by a few Muslims towards the British. They did not fabricate evidence against a country, they did not illegaly invade a country, They did not reduce a high percentage of this country to rubble, They did not kill thousands of its people. Oh no they hate your way of life and want to destroy it. Long live 'Freedom'! the symbol of western society, Shut up Bush!
If i remember rightly we have disgused the Iraq war a few times and we can again if you wish , as always with you Iraq comes up !!

AAAWW poor muslims in Iraq , fed up of fighting the Invaders so want to fight amoungst themselves , shouldnt they be fighting the Infidels instead huh ??

Sorry but I feel no sympathy for the english. If you're bothered by your 'society' and your people being attacked sort out your killers from foreign countries and ship them back to where ever the fuck they came from and the killings from both sides will stop.
Not sure what you mean here - If you mean kick out the Muslims in this country wanting to kill i totaly agree with you and its the smartest thing i have heard you say .

Or do you mean the soldiers in Islamic countrys . God if that happened what would people like yourself blame on terrorism then , the biggest act of propaganda is right there !!

Thats because there are no 'high profile Muslims" like the chrisitan pope to condemn such attacks, the highest a Muslim can go is becoming an Imam of a mosque thats it, and i dont know what world you're living in but thousands of Imams have denounced terrorism and condemend any attack on Civilians, you've just been looking in the wrong places, as expected from an ignorant individual such as yourself.
Being Ignorant to your " peacefull " religion i dont know an Iman from a preacher of hate , i just thought they were one of the same ;)

I will also take your word for it that Muslims are realy sorry for whats going on :)


The only 'ammo' litteraly being used to fuel this conflict are the thousands of your killers based on Islamic soil. PERIOD.
Thats the propaganda right there my friend .
 

TecK NeeX

On Probation: Please report break in guidelines to
#13
jaimie.uk fan said:
If i remember rightly we have disgused the Iraq war a few times and we can again if you wish , as always with you Iraq comes up !!
Cause you're always bitching and whinning about a few Muslims wanting to hurt your fellow citizens in England, So Iraq must come up because its the root cause of this hatred towards the British. I will repeat this several times in this post, Not once did Muslims plan an attack against the British before the Iraq war.

AAAWW poor muslims in Iraq , fed up of fighting the Invaders so want to fight amoungst themselves , shouldnt they be fighting the Infidels instead huh ??
I dont know what you're talking about, the American and British death toll continues to climb with each day, and yes certain sunni and shia militias are fighting each other, thats because they're a bunch of idiots. Also explains why it took a guy like saddam Hussein to keep things in check in that country. Thats what that country needs.

Not sure what you mean here - If you mean kick out the Muslims in this country wanting to kill i totaly agree with you and its the smartest thing i have heard you say .
Of course thats not what i meant.

Or do you mean the soldiers in Islamic countrys . God if that happened what would people like yourself blame on terrorism then , the biggest act of propaganda is right there !!
Why would there be terrorism if foreign troops withdrew from Islamic nations? tell me of a single terrorist attack by muslims before western troops were based on islamic soil. Can you do that for me?

Being Ignorant to your " peacefull " religion i dont know an Iman from a preacher of hate , i just thought they were one of the same ;)
This makes no sense at all.

I will also take your word for it that Muslims are realy sorry for whats going on :)
The majority are.

Thats the propaganda right there my friend .
you should be the last one to talk propoganda man. Again since when did Muslims felt hostility towards the british? Since they invaded an Islamic country. You cant find me a single attempt by extremist muslims to endanger british citizens let alone an attack before the invasion.
 
#14
TecK NeeX said:
Cause you're always bitching and whinning about a few Muslims wanting to hurt your fellow citizens in England, So Iraq must come up because its the root cause of this hatred towards the British. I will repeat this several times in this post, Not once did Muslims plan an attack against the British before the Iraq war.



I dont know what you're talking about, the American and British death toll continues to climb with each day, and yes certain sunni and shia militias are fighting each other, thats because they're a bunch of idiots. Also explains why it took a guy like saddam Hussein to keep things in check in that country. Thats what that country needs.



Of course thats not what i meant.



Why would there be terrorism if foreign troops withdrew from Islamic nations? tell me of a single terrorist attack by muslims before western troops were based on islamic soil. Can you do that for me?



This makes no sense at all.



The majority are.



you should be the last one to talk propoganda man. Again since when did Muslims felt hostility towards the british? Since they invaded an Islamic country. You cant find me a single attempt by extremist muslims to endanger british citizens let alone an attack before the invasion.
i was trying to stay out of this argument, but these comments are absolutely ridiculous, Teck NeeX. so because westerners are on "muslim land" that means it's ok for Muslims to kill them? innocent citizens, women and children? the question about whether the US and Britain should be there is irrelevant, i just find it unbelievable that you actually seem to support this idea. let's put it to the test tho. if tomorrow, the US were to declare that America is Christian soil, and any non Christians on their land should be seen as the enemy and killed, would that be OK? THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR TERRORISM. EVER. and anyone who believes that people not of their religion should be killed for being on "their land" are the ones who need to be rounded up and shot.

EDIT: This is not an attack on all Muslims, just the ones who think like this. as most intelligent people know, the true Muslim religion is one of peace and tolerance, even acceptance of others' religious beliefs. these extremists do not represent what their religion teaches, and therefore they aren't true Muslims in my book
 

TecK NeeX

On Probation: Please report break in guidelines to
#16
Devious187 said:
so because westerners are on "muslim land" that means it's ok for Muslims to kill them? innocent citizens, women and children?
Never said westerners, I said western troops, big difference, I dont have a problem at all with people from the west visiting or living in islamic nations. Millions of them already do, and i never said its ok to kill civilians.


the question about whether the US and Britain should be there is irrelevant,
It has everything to do with it. its the root cause of terrorism. Anyone who disagrees is an obvious idiot.

i just find it unbelievable that you actually seem to support this idea. let's put it to the test tho. if tomorrow, the US were to declare that America is Christian soil, and any non Christians on their land should be seen as the enemy and killed, would that be OK?
I never said i supported the idea, stop with this bullshit already. and no its not ok, i dont know where you got the idea that it was ok. You wanna put my idea to the test make sure you put it to one that fits my idea.



THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR TERRORISM. EVER.
No there isnt but war crimes breeds terror, terror is the only weapon of the weak who are faced with an enemy much much stronger. does not mean i condone it tho.


and anyone who believes that people not of their religion should be killed for being on "their land" are the ones who need to be rounded up and shot.
Read what i type carefully next time plz. i never said anyone who isnt muslim should not be allowed on Islamic soil, I said foreign troops thats it.
 

TecK NeeX

On Probation: Please report break in guidelines to
#17
Glockmatic said:
so i guess 9/11 REALLY got western troops out of the middle east huh?
Yes threats of terror had everything to do with American troops withdrawing from Saudi Arabia, 1 down dozens more to go .
 

Glockmatic

Well-Known Member
#18
but now theres western soldiers in afghanistan, iraq and lebanon, more than there were a few years ago. People need to understand that foreign soldiers won't leave until there is stability there, terrorism isn't a sign of stability.
 

Kareem

Active Member
#19
This shit is really getting old an fast. Some of ya'll act like we invented terrorism, the shits been around for years we're just the flavor of the month so to speak. The west needs to stay out of the middle east period, stop interfering and meddling with the governments there.

Im not saying allow the terror groups to do as they please but a big part of that is the wests butting in middle east affairs. Right now there is a country that is nuculearly armed, has chemical an bio weapons, also has concentration camps an starves its people. An its located in Asia im sure everyone knows who im talking about. But theres no oil there of course no benefit of occupation so we can just negotiate with them.

Seriously you dont like Islam, fine no one here is loosing sleep at night cause you wont convert, thats not our thing, christians are the "soul savers". A simple discussion always gets turned into a bash Islam thread, "because mommy an daddy an cnn told me, you guys were horrible". Seriously i dunno what the deal is here anymore, bash another race, belief or whatever an someones gonna get banned, but bash Islam or those of here who are muslims an its open season.

Its really getting old, theres nothing wrong with a mature civilized discussion with both sides having their talking points, but the hate an ignorance is inexcusable and uncalled for.
 
#20
TecK NeeX said:
Never said westerners, I said western troops, big difference, I dont have a problem at all with people from the west visiting or living in islamic nations. Millions of them already do, and i never said its ok to kill civilians.




It has everything to do with it. its the root cause of terrorism. Anyone who disagrees is an obvious idiot.



I never said i supported the idea, stop with this bullshit already. and no its not ok, i dont know where you got the idea that it was ok. You wanna put my idea to the test make sure you put it to one that fits my idea.





No there isnt but war crimes breeds terror, terror is the only weapon of the weak who are faced with an enemy much much stronger. does not mean i condone it tho.




Read what i type carefully next time plz. i never said anyone who isnt muslim should not be allowed on Islamic soil, I said foreign troops thats it.
i'm sorry, but i read everything you wrote very carefully, and it clearly shows that you believe that if western troops are on Muslim land, then it is ok for Muslims to attack them, and the citizens of their country. maybe you should go back and read what you wrote yourself.

TecK NeeX said:
Awww the poor English have done nothing wrong to cause this hate by a few Muslims towards the British. They did not fabricate evidence against a country, they did not illegaly invade a country, They did not reduce a high percentage of this country to rubble, They did not kill thousands of its people. Oh no they hate your way of life and want to destroy it. Long live 'Freedom'! the symbol of western society, Shut up Bush!
TecK NeeX said:
Sorry but I feel no sympathy for the english. If you're bothered by your 'society' and your people being attacked sort out your killers from foreign countries and ship them back to where ever the fuck they came from and the killings from both sides will stop.
right here you are basically saying that because of what went on with the British invading Iraq (the military i might add, not its citizens) that their citizens deserve to be attacked, that you have no sympathy for them when they do get attacked. do you also have no sympathy for the people who died on 9/11? or did they bring that on themselves too?

i'm not defending America or the UK, in fact i agree on a lot of points you have made about their actions in this so-called "war on terror". but i can never EVER condone any act of terrorism against innocent citizens, that is simply not a solution that will give you the results you want. case in point: has any of the actions these terrorist organizations have taken against the western troops done anything to get rid of them? no, in fact it did just the opposite.

edit: lol wtf? what's wrong with the quotes? i did the right way, why is it appearing like that? :confused:

edit2: Fixed. (Duke)
 

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