Shoot to kill

[tupacmansion]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4712061.stm

Im sure by now everyones heard the story of the Innocent Brazillian man shot dead.
How come no one's being punished yet an innocent man is just shot dead . I would understand if this was someone who had strong terrorist links etc. but this was a normal citizen going about his everyday life.
How can this shoot to kill policy be allowed to continue . I think that this just shows that the terrorist have achieved their goal.

What are your thoughts?

 

[PuffnScruff]

no one is being punished yet because it is still under investigation.

why doesnt that report say that the undercover police officer that shot the man told him to repeatedly stop? why doesnt that report say the man was running away from the undercover officer? if he was so innocent why was he running? and why didnt he stop?

 

[tupacmansion]

no one is being punished yet because it is still under investigation.

why doesnt that report say that the undercover police officer that shot the man told him to repeatedly stop?
why doesnt that report say the man was running away from the undercover officer? if he was so innocent why was he running? and why didnt he stop?

well the officer was undercover, meaning he was wearing plain clothes. Now you tell me, if someone chases you in plain clothes with a gun and tells you to "stop", what would you do? for all he knew the undercover officer may have been a terrorist. This man was completely innocent and just reacted as any other individual would in this situtation.

 

[Jokerman]

Perhaps, if the police had been uniformed, he might have responded better to their challenge... but who's to know? In the aftermath of a second set of bombings, the police were obviously hyper-alert and hyper-sensitive to any situation or behavior which might suggest a threat to public safety. And when the victim actually ran from them onto a train, as a suicide bomber might well do, I guess their suspicions were so strong that they felt they had to take action, and use lethal force, rather than allow the victim to (possibly) detonate an explosive device.

I feel very sorry for the victim and his family, but also for the police, who undoubtedly reacted to what they perceived as a valid and immediate threat. I don't think there will be any "winners" here - and I daresay that US police would probably have reacted in the same way under similar circumstances. Tragic for all concerned.

 

[EDouble]

yeah apparently he was bein followed from his apartment, and they claimed they became suspicious at the station because of his clothes & 'suspicious behavoir'. they said he kept refusin, yellin and runnin away. said he jumped the style (even tho its said he bought weekly passes to ride, its understandable at least to me that he would jump it if he was bein tailed, then chased by a few undercover guys one with a gun). witness says he saw him runnin to the train then the undercover fired Five shots and the dude was dead.

u could make defense of the officers and shit but its sad and fucked that the shit even was enacted and the man was followed. Its like all they havin nowadays in light of everythin, is jus to do random following and assumptions. now its all the searches too, and it jus was activated in NY systems too, on 'suspicious' ppl or whatever the fuck.
anyone can see the thoughts behind all of it but everythin seems fucked. and more and more of these bombins killin dozens of people seem like every day lately .

 

[The.Menace]

Mr Menezes's family is struggling to come to terms with his death.

I htink this is almost funny. They struggle to come to terms with their son beeing shot five times in the head. What a surprise.

 

[k69atie]

well the officer was undercover, meaning he was wearing plain clothes. Now you tell me, if someone chases you in plain clothes with a gun and tells you to "stop", what would you do? for all he knew the undercover officer may have been a terrorist. This man was completely innocent and just reacted as any other individual would in this situtation.

I am sure when they are chased they don't just run after them with guns shouting stop, i am sure they tell them it is armed police, which if they were chasing me, if they asked me to bend over and touch my toes i would, why run away if you have done nothing wrong? thats just stupid

 

[The.Menace]

well - we know nothing about this man's life. Katie, maybe he had problems with the mafia or something - if so, he wouldn't believe a man with a gun that he's a officier... Maybe he did a minor crime and that's why he ran away.

 

[k69atie]

^ fair enough, but even if you had done a minor crime, id rather be caught that shot. but i do think they should have been 100% sure they had the right man before shooting him

 

[tupacmansion]

I am sure when they are chased they don't just run after them with guns shouting stop, i am sure they tell them it is armed police, which if they were chasing me, if they asked me to bend over and touch my toes i would, why run away if you have done nothing wrong? thats just stupid

This man may have believed the undercover police themselves were terrorists. Even if they were shouting out that they were the police, I wouldn't automatically stop, afterall they are in plain clothes and they may just be terrorists trying to fool their victims.

 

[k69atie]

^^^ they said on the news he may not have stopped cos he was over his time allowed in the country.

 

[Illuminattile]

Bear in mind that the guy was wearing a thick, padded jacket - in the middle of summer - and witnesses originally said they thought he might have had something concealed underneath his coat or been wearing a bomb belt. When we're in the aftermath of two terrorist attacks and you flee from police wearing suspicious attire, you're not doing yourself any favours. Obviously it's a shame the man died, and from the reports I've read it seems as though they might have been able to capture him without firing shots. However, this is a man who, from the police perspective, could have been a suicide bomber, they had to make a decision. If he had been a suicide bomber and they hadn't fired, many more people could now be dead.

well - we know nothing about this man's life. Katie, maybe he had problems with the mafia or something - if so, he wouldn't believe a man with a gun that he's a officier... Maybe he did a minor crime and that's why he ran away.

According to his cousin, "He does not have a past that would make him run from police".

This man may have believed the undercover police themselves were terrorists. Even if they were shouting out that they were the police, I wouldn't automatically stop, afterall they are in plain clothes and they may just be terrorists trying to fool their victims.

Why would a group of 20 terrorists chase someone onto a train, claiming to be plain clothes policemen, and shouting at him to stop?

 

[The.Menace]

^^^ they said on the news he may not have stopped cos he was over his time allowed in the country.

That's what I thought all the time, sicne he's from Brazil. He probablly thought that's why they're looking for him and ran - didn't expect them to shoot therefor. Sad story over all.

 

[k69atie]

^ very sad, but if he had been connected and the police had let him go, they would be getting even more stick

 

[Illuminattile]

That's what I thought all the time, sicne he's from Brazil. He probablly thought that's why they're looking for him and ran - didn't expect them to shoot therefor. Sad story over all.

According to the BBC, "relatives of Mr Menezes deny his visa had expired".

 

[Mr.Deuce]

damn i feel sorry for dat guy RIP..read in a paper about it.

 

[tupacmansion]

Bear in mind that the guy was wearing a thick, padded jacket - in the middle of summer -
When we're in the aftermath of two terrorist attacks and you flee from police wearing suspicious attire, you're not doing yourself any favours.

well this guy is originally from Brazil so it won't have been that warm for him. Also british weather is shit, the climate can change so quickly. So this guy is guilty of wearing a thick jacket, not reason enough to die.

Why would a group of 20 terrorists chase someone onto a train, claiming to be plain clothes policemen, and shouting at him to stop?

He may not of heard them. He may have just seen their guns and ran away, anyone would do the same. Even if he did hear them, in the current situation he may not of believed them, especially considering they were wearing plain clothes.

 

[Æppy²¹³]

totally agree^

 

[Silleone X]

R.I.P to him and my condolences to his family.

This is messed up but you have to think about if he was a terrorist and he blew up the train, police would be blamed for not doing anything.

 

[ARon]

^ But he wasn't a terrorist, the police made a stupid decision and now they have to take blame for it.
Does anyone know what a terrorist looks like? Or do we just go by what is on the TV. Who is anyone to say what a terrorist looks like? For the police to say he looked like a terrorist is ridiculous, a Brazillian man in a colder climate wearing a jacket, fucking suspicious. They didn't know he was Brazillian, still he was a regular man wearing a jacket.
The guy was shot 8 times, 7 in the head and one in the shoulder.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm)
8 times.
So i guess London police must have all this figured out, they know exactly what suicide bombers look like.

"But I think it's also important to recognize that . . . the underlying causes of this are not a police action or a police policy or procedures but actually the fact that we have terrorists using suicide as a weapon on the streets of London and below the streets of London and that is the context in which we're operating."
Give me a break, don't blame your mistake on Terrorism, no terrorist pulled the trigger 8 times.
Yes the officer had to make a split decision but i think he let his emotions get to involved in this one. I think there is a reason police in London dont carry handguns, and i wish it was the same in the US. What do these under cover, civilian looking police expect someone to do when they run up on them with a gun. Complete neglegence on behalf of these police.
The mans cousin puts it perfectly.
"If you are going to have a war on terror, you have got to use brains to fight it not just brute force."

Sorry if i seem pissed because I am, i have had a friend die from the same damn situation and its bullshit that these police get off the hook for these so called "split decisions" that make their stupid mistakes ok.