Science vs Religion (Islam)

[ImmortalTech]

whats goin' on..

I was reading a whole buncha threads on hee, and a big thing that always tends to come up is Science vs Religion. People debating weather religion is anti-science or weather a truly intelligent man can at the same time hve faith. Alotta talks of our origin and if there is a god and weather there is any proofs or not. Anyways I came across this website, by an educated Muslim Scholar, Harun Yahya. He has a whole LOT of articles posted up discussing these topics, n i thought maybe some of ya'll would be interested in reading some of these. Yes I know alot of u will say he's biased or whatever the case since he is a Muslim scholar, but I believe everyone has their own biases based on their opinions and experiences, so take it for what it is.. interesting reads. And dont just shit on the man just cuz u disagree with his views. Go through topics that interest u you may learn something, or u may think he's full of shit. But theres alotta good stuff on there, havent really had a chance to read em properly, so if u come across some that are interesting, discuss em here.

~peace

http://www.harunyahya.com/m_articles.php

(I'm not trying to convert nobody nor am I saying that i agree with everything this man says... I respect everyones beleifs weather ur Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Christian, Athiest, or whatever) .. Just thought some of u might be interested in these topics

 

[Illuminattile]

He's a Muslim, an Old Earth creationist, an Anti-Semite and a Holocaust denier. To call him "educated" is a stretch. He has so many biases that nothing he writes can be taken seriously. We've discussed him on here more than he deserves to be discussed.

I think all the previous "Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Qu'ran" threads are long gone, so I suppose it was only a matter of time before another one cropped up.

 

[Cooper]

His articles on the universe, especially sirius reminded me off ppl tryna use Nostradamus to prove he predicted modern events.

Any old text can be used to say anything with enough work.

 

[*Riaz*]

ive read n seen most of his books n programmes,Very interesting!

 

[Glockmatic]

His articles on the universe, especially sirius reminded me off ppl tryna use Nostradamus to prove he predicted modern events.

Any old text can be used to say anything with enough work.

exactly. Twisting old words to fit modern meanings.

Harun Yahya believes that evolution is directly related to nazism, communism and buddhism (wtf buddhism?). Ya, seems like a smart guy

 

[Jokerman]

nazism, communism and buddhism (wtf buddhism?). Ya, seems like a smart guy

lol, exactly what i thought when i saw that. Buddhism, the most peaceful religion there is. But then it began to make sense. Buddhists don't believe in a Creator. They believe all things are impermanent, constantly arising, becoming, changing and fading. So they really don't have a problem with evolution. They allow for it. The subject doesn't even matter to them. But to this guy, if you're not against it, you're for it. And you don't believe in God? Well that goes against Islam. And since there are like a billion buddhists in the world, it's important for him to tie them into his anti-evolutionary fairy tale. Anyone who doesn't believe in a Creator has to be, by default, an evolutionist to him, even if they never heard of the theory of evolution before.

Ya, seems like a smart guy.

 

[ImmortalTech]

Where exactly did he make anti-semitic comments and deny the holocaust, i dont think i've across that particular article yet? I did read this though...

At various times in their history, Jews suffered oppression and genocide. The main culprit behind such atrocities is anti-Semitic ideology, which led to many tragic events in the 20th century. The true meaning of the term is hatred of Semites, although it is generally understood to mean hatred of Jews. It expresses a hatred for people of Semite descent or the Semitic race. The underlying reason for this hatred for the Semitic races is the hatred felt for the divine religions revealed to them. In other words, Nazism's and other fascist movements' hostility towards Jews is in reality a hatred of religion. Anti-Semitism is therefore a pagan teaching that cannot be adopted by any Moslem. People who advocate and incite anti-Semitism are often revealed to be people who also advocate a return to idolatrous practices and war, who enjoy merciless bloodshed, and who are uncontrolled and barbaric. Such people oppose the peace, modesty, love and compassion of true religious morality taught by the prophets. Moslems and Jews are on the same side against such tyrants. Islam aims to bring justice to the world and condemns anti-Semitism, as it does all forms of racism.

But I did read about anti-zionism though...

Other than that I do agree that this guy takes text's outta the Quran and tries to prove something with them, when they're lossely related. At some points it seems like he just looks for a word he's talking about and uses a quote from he Quran that contains that same word and uses it as a proof. Anyone that has even studied a bit of Islam knows u cant just look at the direct Verse is the Quran, without examining, the explanation of those verse, in what circumstances theyw ere passed down, and at what time aloonng with any Hadith that relates to the same topic. So I dont understand why so many of thse 'Scholars' give 'proofs' without establishing that the verse they are speaking of is directly related to the topic and bring up available Hadiths compliment their interpretations if the verses. Yet I dont see too many scholars or rarely any atleast 'popular' scholars that do that. Those scholars are not very credable from an Islamic point of view what maks them think Non-Muslims will believe what they have to say.

But I wont go as far to say that this guy is an idiot, I think he has many good points, some of em which he fails to prove properly. And at the same time I think he is misguide on certain topics too and needs to do more research and understand them better. But he definitely needs to learn how to bring relavent verses and Hadith that support his statements and also proofs that the verses he is using are relavant.

 

[Glockmatic]

Where exactly did he make anti-semitic comments and deny the holocaust, i dont think i've across that particular article yet?

he wrote a book called The Holocaust Hoax/Deception (titled Soykırım Yalanı in Turkish)

 

[ImmortalTech]

^^hmm thanks should check that out. But at the same time, people mature as people and with knowledge so if, he's grown outta that then.. cant really hate on him for something that he used to believe in, but i should look for that book before i make any further comments

~peace

 

[Glockmatic]

How do you know that he has grown out of it?

 

[ImmortalTech]

hmm just from the article i read on the website, doesnt seem like an anti-semite, from that one quote i posted earlier he admits Jews facing oppression and genocide, (seems like he is reffering to the holocaust) other than that he's also saying Muslims cannot be anti-semetic. But he i does admit being anti-zionist.

All of that is out of the article called "What Should a Moslem's View of the People of the Book and Zionism Be?"... Dont know which one he wrote more recently; this article, or the book you were speaking of though, thats why i should educate myself a bit more on the topic before running my mouth haha.

~peace

 

[Illuminattile]

I think the book is from 1995. I don't think an English translation was ever published.

 

[Rahim]

I havn't fully stated my opinion, but something that I believe is that knowledge, any kind of knowledge has a connection with religion.

 

[Jokerman]

I think the book is from 1995.

Liar. 1997.

 

[Jokerman]

He doesn't actually deny the Holocaust, he just doesn't like it being used to justify the creation of Israel.

"The fact that the Nazis murdered 5.7 million Jews does not give them the right to murder other people (Palestinians, for instance). The tragedy of the Holocaust cannot be used to justify the outrages inflicted by Israel on the Middle East. Such behavior is the worst possible lack of respect for the Holocaust's victims."

Not sure why his book was called "The Holocaust Deception;" it might be a mistranslation.

 

[Glockmatic]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n4p35_Weber.html

The book's first section explores in detail the little-known story of collaboration between Zionists and Third Reich Germany, relying in part on an article on this subject in the June-August 1993 issue of this Journal.

Holocaust deception and fraud is the focus of the book's second section, which relies to a considerable extent on books and other material put out by the Institute for Historical Review, including the IHR Journal. This section traces the development and impact of Holocaust revisionism, showing how revisionist scholars have succeeded in debunking numerous Holocaust claims. Accompanying this detailed survey of revisionist scholarship are photographs of such key personalities as Henri Roques, Fred Leuchter, Germar Rudolf, Arthur Butz, David Irving and Robert Faurisson.

 

[Jokerman]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n4p35_Weber.html

Yeah, I'd seen that. But he's not saying the Holocaust itself is a deception, just that there have been deceptions concerning it, for instance, the Zionist-Nazi Collaboration. Anyway, whatever he does say in that book, which has never been translated in English, has been supplanted by his latest short book on the subject, which definitely doesn't deny the Holocaust and can be read here:

http://www.harunyahya.com/books/social/holocaust/holocaust_violence_foreword.php

I found it interesting and somewhat reasonable with allowance to his point-of-view as someone who hates the existence of Israel. Worth browsing through.

 

[ImmortalTech]

^^ I dont think he hates the existance of Israel. I think he hates the way the people are going about the existence of Israel. I think he is just against the whole idea of Zionist agenda's behind the whole Israel Palestine war. I do agree that Muslims and Jews need to learn how to live in peace. But Harun Yahya is being very biased with statements like "The most important step in establishing that peace will be for Israel to rid itself of radical Zionist ideology, an important obstacle to that peace and friendship, and to recognize the rights of all Palestinian Muslims." .. He fails to recognize that the average Muslim contrary to the view they're supposed to have on Jew's according to Quran and Sunnah are brought up to hate them. And that itself is also a huge problem. Jews and Muslim's across the world need to recognize each others rights. One group recognizing the other group rights alone wont solve anything.

Like damn man this shit is getting played out Israel vs Palestine.. Pakistan vs India. OVER LAND... but thats not to say the United States and Canada are any better, with Aboriginals pushed off into reservations and their own little communities flooded with alcohol, drugs, prostitution and bad school systems. I think we all need to realize eachother rights as humans and act upon it in our everyday lives instead of claiming we're for equality and peace.

I think both Israeli's and Palestinians commit crimes against eachother. But instead we have (most) Western Media demonizing the Palestinians, and always making it look like the Israelis are always innocent. And on the other hand Muslims demonizing Israeli's and always making Palestinians look innocent. We need a true measure of whats going on, and truely understand what are the forces behind all this shit, instead of just looking at the surface of it, and only then we'll find a peaceful solution to all this. But I dont see that happening anytime soon, cuz most of us have the atitude 'hey what do we care, we carry on with our daily lives without any of this bothering us, so unless those fuckin barbaric Mozlems are planning to murder our ppl again, who gives a fuck about the middle east... Let em kill eachother, I never liked Jews or Mozlems anyways'

.. shits fucked up

peace