"redrawning the map for the Islamic world"

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#1
Muslims alarmed over redrawn map for Islamic world
Web posted at: 8/27/2006 3:0:18
Source ::: Internews
WASHINGTON • Muslim circles have expressed alarm and disgust at the publication of a redrawn map of the Islamic world in a journal closely linked to the US armed forces.

The Armed Forces Journal, which has published the redrawn map of the world of Islam along with a long explanatory article, is published by the Army Times Publishing Company, a part of Gannett Company, Inc, the world’s largest publisher of professional military and defence periodicals.

The proposed scheme places Pakistan on the chopping block. According to the plan, “Iran, a state with madcap boundaries, would lose a great deal of territory to Unified Azerbaijan, Free Kurdistan, the Arab Shia State and Free Balochistan, but would gain the provinces around Herat in today’s Afghanistan — a region with a historical and linguistic affinity for Persia.

“Iran would, in effect, become an ethnic Persian state again, with the most difficult question being whether or not it should keep the port of Bandar Abbas or surrender it to the Arab Shia State.

“What Afghanistan would lose to Persia in the west, it would gain in the east, as Pakistan’s North-west Frontier tribes would be reunited with their Afghan brethren Pakistan, another unnatural state, would also lose its Baloch territory to Free Balochistan. The remaining ‘natural’ Pakistan would lie entirely east of the Indus, except for a westward spur near Karachi. “The city-states of the UAE would have a mixed fate — as they probably will in reality. Some might be incorporated in the Arab Shia State ringing much of the Persian Gulf … Since all puritanical cultures are hypocritical, Dubai, of necessity, would be allowed to retain its playground status for rich debauchees. Kuwait would remain within its current borders, as would Oman.”

The redrawn map claims to “redress the wrongs suffered by the most significant ‘cheated’ population groups, such as the Kurds, Baloch and Arab Shia, but still fail to account adequately for Middle Eastern Christians, Bahais, Ismailis, Naqshbandis and many another numerically lesser minorities.”

It adds that “one haunting wrong can never be redressed with a reward of territory: The genocide perpetrated against the Armenians by the dying Ottoman Empire.”

The author, Ralph Peters, argues that even those who abhor the topic of altering borders would be well-served to engage in an exercise that attempts to conceive a fairer, if still imperfect, amendment of national boundaries “between the Bosporus and the Indus.”

According to him, “We are dealing with colossal, man-made deformities that will not stop generating hatred and violence until they are corrected. As for those who refuse to ‘think the unthinkable’, declaring that boundaries must not change and that’s that, it pays to remember that boundaries have never stopped changing through the centuries. Borders have never been static, and many frontiers, from Congo through Kosovo to the Caucasus, are changing even now. Ethnic cleansing works.”

Peter argues that for Israel to have any hope of living in “reasonable peace” with its neighbours, it will have to return to its pre-1967 borders, with essential local adjustments for legitimate security concerns.

He writes that the most “glaring injustice” between the Balkan Mountains and the Himalayas is the absence of an independent Kurdish state. There are between 27m and 36 m Kurds living in contiguous regions in the Middle East.

He calls Iraq an unnatural state and calls for a greater Kurdish state, which will include Turkish, Syrian and Iranian Kurds. A Free Kurdistan, stretching from Diyarbakir through Tabriz, would be the most pro-Western state between Bulgaria and Japan, he adds.

Iraq’s three Sunni-majority provinces might eventually choose to unify with a Syria that loses its littoral to a Mediterranean-oriented Greater Lebanon.

The Shia south of old Iraq would form the basis of an Arab Shia State rimming much of the Persian Gulf. Jordan would retain its current territory, with some southward expansion at Saudi expense. For its part, the unnatural state of Saudi Arabia would suffer as great a dismantling as Pakistan.
This is scary.
 
#4
It's not that it's scary, because fundamentally what he's saying would be ideal and would inflict the least ethnic fighting.

The problem is that there's no realistic way to get to that redrawn map. States in the Middle East aren't going to magically alter their borders. The borders they have are set for reasons already.
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#5
Morris said:
It's not that it's scary, because fundamentally what he's saying would be ideal and would inflict the least ethnic fighting.

The problem is that there's no realistic way to get to that redrawn map. States in the Middle East aren't going to magically alter their borders. The borders they have are set for reasons already.
No. It's not fundamentally ideal. On the contrary. The middle east needs to unite and establish a one state. A Caliphate if you will. A Federal government under one rule. Exactly similar to the USA. Just re-establish the Caliphate an no more ethnic fightings.

And to redraw it that way, each ethnicity in it's own state will only result in more fightings.

So, to say that it's a good idea is hearsay.
 
#6
No. It's not fundamentally ideal. On the contrary. The middle east needs to unite and establish a one state. A Caliphate if you will. A Federal government under one rule. Exactly similar to the USA. Just re-establish the Caliphate an no more ethnic fightings.
Are you suggesting the establishment of a one Muslim state? Yeah that'll solve the fighting... Someone non-Muslim is bound to have some problems.
 
#7
Jurhum said:
No. It's not fundamentally ideal. On the contrary. The middle east needs to unite and establish a one state. A Caliphate if you will. A Federal government under one rule. Exactly similar to the USA. Just re-establish the Caliphate an no more ethnic fightings.

And to redraw it that way, each ethnicity in it's own state will only result in more fightings.

So, to say that it's a good idea is hearsay.
Ottoman's empire is dead for so long. ;)

Btw, something like 'redrawning the map for the Islamic world' will never happen. The West needs more blood on the hands.
 

Sebastian

Well-Known Member
#8
Jurhum said:
No. It's not fundamentally ideal. On the contrary. The middle east needs to unite and establish a one state. A Caliphate if you will. A Federal government under one rule. Exactly similar to the USA. Just re-establish the Caliphate an no more ethnic fightings.

And to redraw it that way, each ethnicity in it's own state will only result in more fightings.

So, to say that it's a good idea is hearsay.
Do you believe this is possible?
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
#10
Jurhum said:
No. It's not fundamentally ideal. On the contrary. The middle east needs to unite and establish a one state. A Caliphate if you will. A Federal government under one rule. Exactly similar to the USA. Just re-establish the Caliphate an no more ethnic fightings.
I remember someone tried to do something similar in Europe. His plan was to unite, what in his opinion was the ideal group of Europeans and form a united Europe with himself at the head. Unfortunatly his plan involved the slaughter of anyone that didnt fit his profile.

I forget his name, care to refresh my memory?
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#15
Valeoz said:
Are you suggesting the establishment of a one Muslim state? Yeah that'll solve the fighting... Someone non-Muslim is bound to have some problems.
The biggest problem about the Caliphate is the misconception that non-Muslims are bound to be oppressed. Historically, this is false. If one studies the Caliphate, everyone was treated equally.

beReal said:
Do you believe this is possible?
I think it's the only solution to the turmoil in the middle east right now. A strong, responsible, central government that will provide safety and protection for its people, regardless of race, religion or ethnicity.

Rukas said:
I remember someone tried to do something similar in Europe. His plan was to unite, what in his opinion was the ideal group of Europeans and form a united Europe with himself at the head. Unfortunatly his plan involved the slaughter of anyone that didnt fit his profile.

I forget his name, care to refresh my memory?
I don't know why anyone would analogize this proposition with Nazi Germany. Who said anything about force or wars to establish such a state.

The mentality of it already exists among most Arab people; it's execution is all that remains.

Morris said:
A caliphate is the antithesis of a federal government. Do you know what federalism is?
Federalism is a political philosophy (Caliphate) in which a group or body of members (the Islamic states) are bound together (Latin: foedus, covenant) with a governing representative head (Caliph).

Hmm! No I do not know what federalism is, can you enlighten me, sir?

Khaled said:
As long as Lebanon doesn't looses any land, that s fine with me.

i actually like the idea of greater Lebanon hehe

peace
Yes a greater Lebanon. A one Arab state. A one Middle East. Imagine that. A state where it doesn't have to fear being bombed or threatened on a daily bases. A state that will provide safety for its citizens. A state that will defend its borders and govern its land, accordingly.
 
#17
The biggest problem about the Caliphate is the misconception that non-Muslims are bound to be oppressed. Historically, this is false. If one studies the Caliphate, everyone was treated equally.
I didn't say oppressed. Historically, things worked, but today, no. If I had to live in a caliphate, I would only trust myself under Mehmed II and some of his successors. Remember, just because something worked before doesn't mean it can work again.
Yes a greater Lebanon. A one Arab state. A one Middle East. Imagine that. A state where it doesn't have to fear being bombed or threatened on a daily bases. A state that will provide safety for its citizens. A state that will defend its borders and govern its land, accordingly.
lol why an arab state? When you say citizens, you mean Muslim citizens, right?
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#18
Glockmatic said:
except the middle east has a lot more than arabs
The middle east is mainly consistant of Arabs.

I didn't say oppressed. Historically, things worked, but today, no. If I had to live in a caliphate, I would only trust myself under Mehmed II and some of his successors. Remember, just because something worked before doesn't mean it can work again.
On the contrary, it should work now better than it worked in the past.

ol why an arab state? When you say citizens, you mean Muslim citizens, right?
No. Not only Muslim citizens. All citizens regardless of religion or color.
 

Sebastian

Well-Known Member
#20
Jurhum said:
No. Not only Muslim citizens. All citizens regardless of religion or color.
Yeah, lets all live in heaven.....honestly, if you cant see that this is soooo far from realistic then i dont know how to help you.
 

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