Question Regarding Evolution

[TecK NeeX]

Jacked this from another Forum.


Q: Is Mankind the final stage of Evolution?

Lets just say for the sake of this thread that all biological forms may have adapted and adjusted to conform to environmental forces, but now, with human consciousness, Man is in the unique position where his survival depends on the opposite - Mans ability to make the environment adapt to his own wishes and intentions. His future successes a species will depend much more on this than on any eventual gradual adaptation of Man’s physical biology to external environmental factors or forces.

Any and all future advancement of Man will come from his intelligent use of his own mind to handle and control the environment so as to aid his survival. This is radically different from the views inherent in traditional evolutionary theories

The mind of Man aids Man’s survival primarily when it reaches out, controls, changes, and adjusts the environment to his own wishes, and it needs to be pointed out that this activity is not at all analogous to any application of "adaptation to the environment", "biological mutation" or anything else understood by the theory of evolution and natural selection. Possibly Man’s ability to be conscious and think "evolved" as Darwin conceives all other things to have evolved, but now that Man has this ability, he can obviously act to greatly alter his environment to his own wishes. This has tremendous implications to the theory of evolution. No other organism has ever had this ability.

Future enhancements will not come from biological adaptation to external forces. In other words, now that Man has consciousness, it is necessary to dispense with the concept of biological evolution if we as a species are to move forward.

 

[Jokerman]

As I wrote last February, middle of the page: http://www.2pacboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128904&page=3&pp=15

Evolution doesn't have to be physical change. There's cultural evolution and evolution of consciousness. These two types of evolution are very active today and are not taking millions of years. Acquiring language in the last 10,000 years is evolution at work. In other words, natural selection.

However, thanks to advances of genetics and molecular biology underway, hereditary change will soon depend less on natrual selection than on social choice. Possessing exact knowledge of its own genes, collective humanity in a few decades can, if it wishes, select a new direction in its evolution and move there quickly.

So, no, we are not at the final state of evolution.

 

[Jokerman]

Oh, and was this an important point to you: "In other words, now that Man has consciousness, it is necessary to dispense with the concept of biological evolution if we as a species are to move forward?"

Cause it's not saying anything to me. I guess you were hoping that this invalidates evolutionary theory somehow? Sorry, no show. The evolutinary concept applies to physical evolution up to the point that man's consciousness comes into play. Nothing invalidates that. We don't need to "dispense" with a correct theory that applies to physical adaptations. We just need to understand the dynamics involved now that consciousness is king. We've been moving forward since.

 

[Valeoz]

Since we're on the topic of evolution, I have a question for evolutionist:

How long have human beings like ourselves, the homosapien, have since appeared here on Earth?

And can someone explain to what is the evolution of consciousness and culture, if this is a standard view?

Also Jokerman, can you give more emphasis on "Acquiring language in the last 10,000 years is evolution at work."

 

[TecK NeeX]

Evolution doesn't have to be physical change. There's cultural evolution and evolution of consciousness. These two types of evolution are very active today and are not taking millions of years. Acquiring language in the last 10,000 years is evolution at work. In other words, natural selection. .

I'm not really interested in 'cultural' or 'language' Evolution. That has absolutely nothing to do with Darwinian Evolution. I hardly call that as proof of biological Evolution. Natural selection applies only to biological organisms at their basic level of survival. Cultures on the other hand spread by transfer of ideas more than by genetic inheritance. Cultural evolution is running a million times faster than Darwinian evolution. Mechanisms of cultural evolutionism are entirely different than that of biological evolution i.e non-genetic. These absurd ideas are used by cornered and desperate modern believers in Darwin’s theories to make up for the absolute lack of evidence that support physical Evolution.

that said, I will re-word my question

'Darwinian' Evolution states that biological organisms adapt and physicaly adjust to conform to environmental force. What is left for us to adapt and adjust to now that we have the gift of consciousness that gives us the ability to make the environment adapt to our own wishes and intentions?

 

[Rukas]

I think now as our live styles evolve, our bodies will adapt to our life style. We can already see it happening with over weight people, our lifestyle supports obesseness. Its not far fetched to assume our bodies would adapt physically to ensure our survival in these types of environments.

I also think as computer use becomes even more wide spread and technology advances, the human body will become hairless and we will all end up looking like the typical alien stereotype, big brain, pale skin, big eyes (to cope with the computer use of course), and then we will invent time travel, come back to this time now, and scare people with UFOs.

 

[not really ken]

I also think as computer use becomes even more wide spread and technology advances, the human body will become hairless and we will all end up looking like the typical alien stereotype, big brain, pale skin, big eyes (to cope with the computer use of course), and then we will invent time travel, come back to this time now, and scare people with UFOs.

haha

 

[Zero Cool]

I also think as computer use becomes even more wide spread and technology advances, the human body will become hairless and we will all end up looking like the typical alien stereotype, big brain, pale skin, big eyes (to cope with the computer use of course), and then we will invent time travel, come back to this time now, and scare people with UFOs.

This actually isn't as wacky as it seems on first sight.

 

[Ghetto_Ghost]

As I wrote last February, middle of the page: http://www.2pacboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128904&page=3&pp=15

Evolution doesn't have to be physical change. There's cultural evolution and evolution of consciousness. These two types of evolution are very active today and are not taking millions of years. Acquiring language in the last 10,000 years is evolution at work. In other words, natural selection.

However, thanks to advances of genetics and molecular biology underway, hereditary change will soon depend less on natrual selection than on social choice. Possessing exact knowledge of its own genes, collective humanity in a few decades can, if it wishes, select a new direction in its evolution and move there quickly.

So, no, we are not at the final state of evolution.

ya thats true, when people think evolution they think we are going to be on some X-Men shit.

 

[Jokerman]

What is left for us to adapt and adjust to now that we have the gift of consciousness that gives us the ability to make the environment adapt to our own wishes and intentions?

This question takes for granted something that is not granted.

We don't yet have the ability to make the environment adapt to our wishes. Consciousness might give us the potential to do that, but we're not there yet. We've made a hole in the ozone that's getting bigger; we have a greenhouse effect that's going to get worse; we've polluted much of our waterways. We have created a planet-sized problem. We are the first species to alter Earth's climate, however unintentional it was. Through overpopulation we've put ourselves in danger of running out of food and water.

So, no, we're not at a point where scientific genius will solve each crisis that arises. Perhaps that might be possible in future decades (centuries seem more likely), but the means are not yet in sight. And time is running out. At best, an environmental bottleneck is coming in the twenty-first century. It will cause the unfolding of a new kind of history driven by environmental change. Or perhaps an unfolding on a global scale of more of the old kind of history, which saw the collapse of regional civilizations.

 

[Ghetto_Ghost]

It will cause the unfolding of a new kind of history driven by environmental change. Or perhaps an unfolding on a global scale of more of the old kind of history, which saw the collapse of regional civilizations.

one question,
will i be dead by then?

 

[TecK NeeX]

So, no, we're not at a point where scientific genius will solve each crisis that arises. Perhaps that might be possible in future decades (centuries seem more likely), but the means are not yet in sight. And time is running out. At best, an environmental bottleneck is coming in the twenty-first century. It will cause the unfolding of a new kind of history driven by environmental change. Or perhaps an unfolding on a global scale of more of the old kind of history. which saw the collapse of regional civilizations

So in other words what you're saying is when these enviromental forces get worse we humans will eventually physically evolve and adapt to these obstacles that threaten our existence in the future?

Do you believe the human mind and consciousness are the works of Evolution and Natural Selection?

Also, Which civilizations have collapsed due to enviromental change?

Through overpopulation we've put ourselves in danger of running out of food and water.

Thats absolutely not true, Species on Earth have been consuming water and food for billions of years. I dont think thats going to change anytime soon or ever. Shortage of food and water is an imaginary problem.

 

[Zero Cool]

Shortage of food and water is an imaginary problem.

Tell that to those dying in Africa

 

[TecK NeeX]

Tell that to those dying in Africa

The U.S consumes more food and water than half the world put together. why is that? they have the resources, factories, machines and proper food and water management systems to provide these goods to its people, Africa doesnt. Just because they can't get it doesnt mean its unavailable, There is enough food and water on Earth to last us billions of more years

 

[Zero Cool]

The U.S consumes more food and water than half the world put together. why is that? they have the resources, factories, machines and proper food and water management systems to provide these goods to its people, Africa doesnt. Just because they can't get it doesnt mean its unavailable, There is enough food and water on Earth to last us billions of more years

Did you ever actually listen when you were in Geography class? The Earth's resources are simply not sufficent to support a current population 6 billion people, nevermind that in 50 years this will have risen to near 10 billion.

 

[TecK NeeX]

Did you ever actually listen when you were in Geography class? The Earth's resources are simply not sufficent to support a current population 6 billion people, nevermind that in 50 years this will have risen to near 10 billion.

Earth as a whole will never run out of water in the most general sense. The Earth will always have the same amount of water as it does now. We just need the proper water management systems to provide purified water for those that need it most. Same with food. That was my point. I'm not denying the fact that millions of people are dying and will die from starvation and lack of water. But that's simply not because these goods dont exist but because they couldn't get it.

 

[Jokerman]

So in other words what you're saying is when these enviromental forces get worse we humans will eventually physically evolve and adapt to these obstacles that threaten our existence in the future?

No. It's true that Darwinian Evolution states that biological organisms adapt and physicaly adjust to conform to environmental force. Given enough time. We've made too many changes too fast for natural selection to work in the time before crisis hits. What I said will happen is a collapse of civilizations or a new type of history.

Do you believe the human mind and consciousness are the works of Evolution and Natural Selection?

Yes.

Also, Which civilizations have collapsed due to enviromental change?

Who said any had? Though, Atlantis (or whatever the ancient worldwide maritime civilization was called) most likely collapsed because of an Ice Age. What I said was perhaps that's what we would see in the unique set of circumstances we've created for ourselves. We've never had 6.5 billion ppl on the planet before.

Thats absolutely not true, Species on Earth have been consuming water and food for billions of years. I dont think thats going to change anytime soon or ever. Shortage of food and water is an imaginary problem.

Again, we've never had 6.5 billion ppl on the planet before. The amount of increase this decade alone will exceed the entire population alive in 1600. If this continues, the human biomass will eventually equal the weight of the world and then, after a few millennia, it will exceed the mass of the visible universe. If this continues...

Shortage of food is an imaginary problem? Each year between 13 and 18 million ppl, mostly children, die of starvation, or other poverty-related causes. That's all in our imagination. Giving you more credit, perhaps you meant yeah, it's happening, but it doesn't need to be. If we use our resources better...(or Bin Laden destroys the US..)

How many ppl can the world support for an indefinite period? Experts put the number between 4 and 16 billion. The true number will depend on the quality of life that future generations are willing to accept. Arable land is getting smaller and smaller due to overuse. Even if everyone became vegetarian, leaving nothing for livestock, the present amount of arable land would supply about 10 billion ppl. Is the West going to give up their relatively extravagant lifestyles?

Too many ppl already compete for too little water. And much of it is polluted and getting worse. The aquifers of the world, on which so much agriculture in drier regions depends, are being drained of their groundwater faster than reserves can be replaced by rainfall and runoff. The water table beneath Beijing fell 37 meters between 1965 and 1995. The groundwater reserves of the Arabian peninsula are expected to be exhauseted by 2050. On a global scale, humanity is pressing the limit, using a quarter of the accesible water released to the atmosphere by evaporation and plant transpiration. By 2025, 40 percent of the world's population could be living in places with chronic water scarcity. So, yeah, there's a water shortage.

 

[Jokerman]

I read your later post. It's not just that starving ppl are not getting what they need. That's true to an extent. But the truth is that the land is in no shape to sustain the number of ppl who are here and who are coming, even if distribution was equal.

 

[TecK NeeX]

Yes.

What force or intelligence explains the evolution of unconscious species to conscious species? This is clearly more of a system of faith than anything approaching valid science!.

BioChemist Michael Denton put it best

"How would a wingless bird know how to grow wings? How would a short-legged horse know to grow larger legs to enable better mobility? How would any species "know" how to perfectly mutate the exact addition or alteration in body form which would give it the new capability? The staunch "scientific" view states that all genetic mutations were accidental, minor, and occurring over very long periods of time, and that things such as physical organs, entire bodily systems, consciousness and organic mechanisms developed as the result of extremely long series of genetic accidents one after another in an endless sequence of convenient mistakes. The evidence is just not there. In the end, people believe these theories just as they believe any thing else which has no real basis in fact"

Faith is defined as "belief in things unseen or unproven by sense evidence". Belief in Evolution takes on the color of a "religion" more than "science" or "evidence".

fact is modern believers in Darwin’s theories including you worship this theory just as any past religious believer worshipped the concept of God. Its clear that there is much more of this faith sort of thing in the believers of evolution than anything considered "scientific evidence". They're no more than opinions, blind faith, and conceptual theories which i consider to be a recipe for a religion. You believe in the unseen and unproven Just you like accuse people of faith in God, salvation etc of doing!.

Atlantis (or whatever the ancient worldwide maritime civilization was called) most likely collapsed because of an Ice Age

Atlantis is fact?

I read your later post. It's not just that starving ppl are not getting what they need. That's true to an extent. But the truth is that the land is in no shape to sustain the number of ppl who are here and who are coming, even if distribution was equal.

Yeah i know that, maybe i should have worded it differently. All i was trying to say is that water covers about 70% of Earths surface and if we make good use of it we simply won't run out of water

 

[Jokerman]

What force or intelligence explains the evolution of unconscious species to conscious species?

The force of Natural Selection! Your worshipping mind just doesn't get it. You need a Creator symbol to put every mystery on, like that solves anything.

Anyway, I'm not going to debate Michael Denton or anyone else's ideas about evolution that you have adopted because they disagree with it too. You disagree with it because of faith. They--or some of them, at least--feel they are making valid scientific points. But you are not qualified to understand their points or their errors. My correction of their errors in thinking would fall on deaf and faithful ears.