~Bachaveli Don~ said:
Jeter has been and still is one of the biggest clutch players in baseball period. when it does count he comes up big no matter what hes current numbers say. when it counts he comes up big.
Now, theres a huge difference between hitting in RISP and being a clutch player.
Hitting well in RISP is not a same as being a clutch player because hitting in RISP not exactly always mean your a clutch player, its just that you bring that run in from 2nd or 3rd, thats it, thats all it means.
Being a clutch player means you get that hit when it counts the most, when the game is on the line. hitting well in RISP wont be same as clutch player because you have like 3-4 times a game apportunity batting in RISP so RISP doesnt have as big price as has clutch hit because you only get one or maybe two apportunity that game is on the line and to hit it.
You can get a hit when the runner is on 2nd when your team is up 10 to 0 and that wouldnt mean shit or as much as when you get a hit when the game is tie and you bring that run in from second and take a lead. see the difference.
so basically, those two arent the same exactly.
and in this case Jeter is a clutch player. he comes up big when it counts and when the game is on the line no matter what hes current season numbers say.
Put Jeter on buttom of the 9th yanks trailing by one run and Jeter is up and runner is on 2nd, seven out of ten times he will bring that runner in. thats a clutch play not a base hit in the scoring position.
So, all those decreasing RISP numbers dont mean shit for Jeter. he will come up big when it will count the most.
So, you still cant prove Jeter having underperforming season.
boy you regreting opening your mouth in the first place or what..
Wednesday, October 29, 2003
by Aaron Gleeman
"Derek is really, really cute" (Part Two)
In yesterday's entry, I looked at Derek Jeter's post-season performances over the last four years, and found that his hitting in "Clutch" situations didn't quite match his reputation for being "Mr. Clutch."
The reason I only looked at the last four years was because the detailed data from previous post-seasons wasn't available. Or so I thought.
Turns out Retrosheet has post-season stats galore. I should have known better. I was trying to find the post-season stats on ESPN.com, and their database only dates back to 2000. But, as Tangotiger from Baseball Primer told me yesterday, "when in doubt, Retrosheet saves the day."
For those of you who missed yesterday's entry, here is a little piece from it:
"The situations one would want to look at in trying to determine the Clutchness of a player would seem to me to be the following:
- Runners in scoring position
- Runners in scoring position with two outs
- Close and late
The first two are self-explanatory. "Close and late" is defined as "results in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck."
In other words, how does someone do when the game is on the line? When the going gets tough and the tough get going. When the s--- hits the fan. When the men are separated from the boys. When (insert your own cliche here).
Here are Derek Jeter's post-season numbers in those situations from 2000-2003, combined...
Runners in scoring position: .214/.421/.357
Runners in scoring position with two outs: .188/.381/.375
Close and late: .176/.263/.323
Again, those numbers do not include what he did from 1996-1999. Even with that disclaimer, I think that if you are looking at the same stats I am looking at, the whole "Jeter is Clutch" theory has a David Wells-sized hole in it."
Unfortunately, while Retrosheet has Jeter's complete post-season record, it does not include his numbers in "close and late" situations, or his numbers with "runners in scoring position and two outs."
Those are two situations that are obviously important when discussing whether or not someone is a "Clutch Player," so it's a little disappointing to not have those numbers. But, what Retrosheet does have is Jeter's numbers with men on base and with men in scoring position.
And, unlike ESPN.com, they have those numbers for his entire, 99-game post-season career.
Here they are...
Runners in scoring position: .210/.355/.306
Runners on base: .245/.345/.329
In his entire post-season career, a total of 99 games spread over eight seasons, Derek Jeter is a .210/.355/.306 hitter with runners in scoring position and a .245/.345/.329 hitter with men on base. Take that and add in the fact that, over the last four post-seasons, he is a .176/.263/.323 hitter in "close and late" situations, and I think it is safe to say that my sarcastic response to Jeter constantly being hailed as "Mr. Clutch" is completely justified.
One of the things that I enjoy most about having a website that a lot of people read is that just about every day, some sort of "message board" or "forum" or "chatroom" discusses what I've written. It's a nice boost to the ego to see that people care about the things you say, and it's always interesting to see your opinions discussed.
I stumbled across a NYYFans.com "Forum" where the subject "Does 'Clutch' really exist" was being debated.
Someone going by the name of "Hawaii Yankee Fan" commented that "anyone who voted 'no' clearly has never seen Derek Jeter play."
Someone else, going by the name of "YankeeNut18," said, "Look no farther than Derek Jeter."
About midway through the discussion, a reader of this blog going by the name "Luke2003" added a link to yesterday's blog entry to the discussion and commented that "there's one problem with this...the numbers say the opposite."
The resulting responses were incredibly interesting. Here are a few of the highlights:
ACPS: "The postseason is all about being clutch, and I don't need some Sox fan's blog to tell me that a guy with a .314 postseason average and the most postseason hits ever to tell me otherwise."
It was later pointed out to this person that I am, in fact, a Twins fan. He didn't really care.
It is interesting that the implication seems to be that Jeter's numbers being shown on a blog and being shown by what "ACPS" thought was a "Sox fan" makes the numbers less real.
It's also interesting that this person wants to dismiss Jeter's offensive numbers in specific "Clutch" situations, but then immediately brings up Jeter's overall post-season batting average.
Hitman23: "I hear ya. And we're not even talking about what he does defensively which is just as important and no one ever mentions."
So, in this person's opinion, not only do the stats that say Jeter has performed poorly in "Clutch" situations not matter, Jeter's defense is something that "no one ever mentions." I'm not the first person to say this, but Derek Jeter's defense is awful. Horrendously bad. It strikes me as incredibly funny that a Yankee fan would dismiss Jeter's actual numbers in Clutch situations because they are bad and then bring up the subject of defense as something in Jeter's favor.
OilCan: "I have to admit I was surprised by these numbers, though."
That response is basically what I was hoping for. In showing Jeter's sub par numbers in Clutch situations, I did not intend to imply that I thought he was a "choker" or some other such nonsense.
I simply was shocked by the actual numbers I found after I stopped trusting Tim McCarver and looked them up for myself. And I figured most everyone else would be just as shocked as I was.
