Iran warns U.S. not to play with "fire", Germany warns of tougher measures

[Zero Cool]

Iran warns U.S. not to play with "fire"

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran has warned the United States not to attack its nuclear facilities and says talks with Europe might produce a deal to defuse the dispute over its alleged covert ambitions to build atomic weapons.

"They know our capabilities. We have clearly told the Europeans to tell the Americans not to play with fire," Iranian spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi told a news briefing in Tehran on Sunday, referring to Washington's refusal to rule out the use of force.

Germany, however, warned that Iran could be referred to the U.N. Security Council for its nuclear activities -- a toughening of the European line that narrows a rift between Europe and Washington which Iran has tried for months to exploit.

An American newspaper, meanwhile, reported that U.S. military bases had been flying pilotless drone aircraft into Iran to hunt for tell-tale traces of nuclear weapons programmes.

Asefi said Iran was determined to continue its nuclear programme which it says is solely for peaceful power generation.

But Washington accuses Tehran of secretly pursuing atomic weapons under cover of the civil programme and says it does not rule out any option to stop it acquiring them.

France, Britain and Germany have been trying to persuade Iran to scrap potentially weapons-related activities in return for economic incentives.

Iran has said repeatedly it will not give up plans to build a heavy-water reactor, which can be used to make weapons-grade material, in exchange for a light-water reactor offered by the Europeans, which is less useful for a weapons programme.

"We will not under any circumstances replace our heavy-water research reactor," Asefi said on Sunday. "We will continue building our heavy-water reactor."

But Asefi said there was a chance of a deal with the Europeans, describing the latest round of Iran-EU talks, which took place in Geneva on Friday, as "deeper and more professional".

German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer however signalled a tougher tone on Iran on Sunday.

"If Iran were to behave unreasonably, against its own interests, if it for example restarted (uranium) enrichment ... then that would lead to the Security Council. That would be then the right church, so to speak," he told a conference in Munich.

Iran suspended uranium enrichment in November as a goodwill gesture in the run-up to the talks with EU nations, but said the suspension would be last months rather than years. Enriched uranium can be used in both weapons and power stations.

Fischer did not say what action could ensue from a referral to the Security Council, noting there was resistance to U.S. calls for sanctions against Tehran. Diplomats say permanent, veto-holding Council members Russia and China would oppose them.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said last week Tehran must accept terms offered by the European Union or be referred to the U.N. Security Council for possible sanctions.

"I think if the United States were to engage positively -- and I'm aware of the difficulties of doing that -- that it would substantially strengthen the EU drive," Fischer said.

Mohammad Saeedi, director-general for international affairs at Iran's Atomic Energy Organisation, on Sunday said Iran's parliament could force the government to resume uranium enrichment.

"Parliament is preparing a bill which will oblige the organisation to produce part of the fuel needed for our nuclear reactors," Saeedi told the official IRNA news agency.

The Russian-built 1,000-megawatt Bushehr nuclear reactor, Iran's only nuclear power plant, will begin operating in late 2005 and reach full capacity in 2006.

Hardline lawmakers, accusing President Mohammad Khatami's government of making too many concessions in its nuclear talks with European countries, last year obliged the government by law to press ahead with a nuclear energy programme.

The Washington Post said the U.S. military had been flying pilotless planes into Iran from bases in Iraq using radar, photography and air filters to detect nuclear activity.

Iran denies U.S. accusations it is building bombs under cover of the civil programme. But Asefi said it would never permanently end its disputed nuclear activities.

"Iran strongly insists on its views and we will not give up our people's legitimate right," he declared.

 

[not really ken]

US don't wanna fuck with Iran. The Iranians are very militant and the US may be spreading it self a little thin what with Iraq and NK on the agenda also

BTW, anyone know whatsup with Afghanistan! No news be coming from there and im sure US troops are still there

 

[DONDI]

Hm..thats a nice fuck you I mean theres at least 1 country not kissin America's ass..and not afraid to step up to em ya know.

 

[Zero Cool]

Hm..thats a nice fuck you I mean theres at least 1 country not kissin America's ass..and not afraid to step up to em ya know.

Not afraid to step to America? Grow up. Oppressing your people and developing nuclear weapons to support your crumbling regime is not an admirable facet Hurts.

 

[DONDI]

Not afraid to step to America? Grow up. Oppressing your people and developing nuclear weapons to support your crumbling regime is not an admirable facet Hurts.

yeah I know but it when it comes to speaking up politically it seems everybody has to bow down to America even tho they are the right ones here cuz lmao they are trying to stop em from making chemical weapons. But ya know what I meant rite... Its not like I am supporting them. iran that is

 

[Zero Cool]

yeah I know but it when it comes to speaking up politically it seems everybody has to bow down to America even tho they are the right ones here cuz lmao they are trying to stop em from making chemical weapons. But ya know what I meant rite... Its not like I am supporting them. iran that is

Yes I understand what you meant but if you want to debate here you have to make clear concise points and back them up with credible evidence

 

[DONDI]

Yes I understand what you meant but if you want to debate here you have to make clear concise points and back them up with credible evidence

yeah and i gotta keep my jokes out of this thread cuz lmao you are not allowed to joke in here . but aight I will do next time

 

[tupacmansion]

Not afraid to step to America? Grow up. Oppressing your people and developing nuclear weapons to support your crumbling regime is not an admirable facet Hurts.

I don't think that their is proof that these weapons are even being developed, at the moment its just accusations. Lets wait for proof before we start making assumptions. Also , even if they do have Nukes, I don't blame em for tryin to protect their country from the likes of America. Its just a natural reaction to protect yourself, so hopefully Iran does develop these weapons and prevent the U.S from invading their country in the future.

 

[Zero Cool]

I don't think that their is proof that these weapons are even being developed, at the moment its just accusations. Lets wait for proof before we start making assumptions. Also , even if they do have Nukes, I don't blame em for tryin to protect their country from the likes of America. Its just a natural reaction to protect yourself, so hopefully Iran does develop these weapons and prevent the U.S from invading their country in the future.

Your whole viewpoint is fallacious.

1) There is well documented evidence from every quarter that Iran is developing these weapons.

2) Protecting themselves from America? Since 1979 Iran has presented themselves as a firm enemy of America's with very little reason. They're ruled by religious fanatics who's main purpose is to cleanse the region of western (and so American) values. It's America who should be defending themselves from Iran not the other way around.

3) I have seen no indication that the U.S. has any interest in invading Iran unless presented with a real and strategic threat do you have any information to the contrary? If so please present it.

 

[tupacmansion]

Your whole viewpoint is fallacious.

1) There is well documented evidence from every quarter that Iran is developing these weapons.

Id love to see it, why don't you present it to me. Its prolly the similar to the evidence which proved Iraq had weapons of mass destruction

2) Protecting themselves from America? Since 1979 Iran has presented themselves as a firm enemy of America's with very little reason. They're ruled by religious fanatics who's main purpose is to cleanse the region of western (and so American) values. It's America who should be defending themselves from Iran not the other way around.

Damn, I see myself as an enemy of the American Government, I hate Bush and his policies, does that mean that I shud be arrested. If everyone country attacked their enemies then their would be a world war. You can't attack someone b'coz they're your enemy, you attack em for a reason. Also You say that America should defend themselves from Iran, what are you talking about, or did Iran bomb America when I wasn't looking. Iran has done nothin to America.

3) I have seen no indication that the U.S. has any interest in invading Iran unless presented with a real and strategic threat do you have any information to the contrary? If so please present it.

The question is what is a real strategic threat, to the paranoid mind of an American A Strategic threat could be anything. Also George Bushes pre-emptive strike policy gives me reason to believe that he is capable of invading Iran.

 

[Zero Cool]

Id love to see it, why don't you present it to me. Its prolly the similar to the evidence which proved Iraq had weapons of mass destruction

Read any IAEA report into Iran's growing nuclear capability, the proof you desire is spelled out in thousands upon thousands of pages. Here's just one article documentating Iran's troubling behaviour.

http://www.nti.org/e_research/e3_35.html

Damn, I see myself as an enemy of the American Government, I hate Bush and his policies, does that mean that I shud be arrested. If everyone country attacked their enemies then their would be a world war. You can't attack someone b'coz they're your enemy, you attack em for a reason. Also You say that America should defend themselves from Iran, what are you talking about, or did Iran bomb America when I wasn't looking. Iran has done nothin to America.

Not yet. And until they do no invasion should be mounted. However to ignore this criminal regime's acquirement of nuclear weapons would be suicide.

The question is what is a real strategic threat, to the paranoid mind of an American A Strategic threat could be anything. Also George Bushes pre-emptive strike policy gives me reason to believe that he is capable of invading Iran.

The American government are not stupid. An invasion of a country such as Iran will not be mounted without due cause. When and if Iran develop a full nuclear capability and use it to threaten any free nation then action should be taken against them through the proper channels. Until then the current process of negotiation and inspection by the international community should continue unabated. The Iranian leadership holds their countries destiny firmly in their own hands.

 

[devils_advok8]

Need I say more?With an Irani and Syrian invasion, you got Iraq, Syria and Iran, three neighbouring countries fighting against you.Iraq is giving the US hell already.I dont think Iran and Syria are different, if not worse.
And if the US invaded Iran, can the other arab leaders take it anymore?They'll simply cut ties with the US.
If you come to think if it, "fire" is an understatement.
I'm including Syria in this cause I dont see why the US is invading Iran and leaving Syria alone, when it's been proved that Syria funds "terrorist" groups and all the attacks in Iraq are planned from there.

 

[tupacmansion]

Read any IAEA report into Iran's growing nuclear capability, the proof you desire is spelled out in thousands upon thousands of pages. Here's just one article documentating Iran's troubling behaviour.

http://www.nti.org/e_research/e3_35.html

Well I don't have time to read the full report yet but i managed to scan through and read this.
"As was the case with the June and August 2003 reports by the IAEA (GOV/2003/40 and GOV/2003/63), the latest report does not provide conclusive evidence that Iran has been pursuing a nuclear weapons program"(IAEA Report)

The American government are not stupid. An invasion of a country such as Iran will not be mounted without due cause.

You can't blame me for being scepitial towards the American Government because we know that Iraq was invaded without due cause.

When and if Iran develop a full nuclear capability and use it to threaten any free nation then action should be taken against them through the proper channels. Until then the current process of negotiation and inspection by the international community should continue unabated. The Iranian leadership holds their countries destiny firmly in their own hands.

I agree with you partly, but what do you mean by "free" nation, and would you name some nations which you regard as "un-free".

 

[Zero Cool]

Well I don't have time to read the full report yet but i managed to scan through and read this.
"As was the case with the June and August 2003 reports by the IAEA (GOV/2003/40 and GOV/2003/63), the latest report does not provide conclusive evidence that Iran has been pursuing a nuclear weapons program"(IAEA Report)

Nitpicking will not help prove your point. To quote the passage in full:

"These reports, however, clearly identified a number of instances over an extended period of time in which Iran has failed in to meet its obligations under its safeguards agreement with respect to the reporting of nuclear material and its processing and use, as well as the declaration of facilities where such material has been processed and stored.

One of the more disturbing points included in the report detailed undeclared Iranian efforts over the past two decades to develop a uranium centrifuge enrichment program and a laser enrichment program, and Iranian success in producing small amounts of low-enriched uranium and plutonium. These efforts, particularly those related to laser enrichment, were assisted by nuclear and technical cooperation with at least four different countries. The report also included Iranian failures to report—and in fact, intentional efforts to conceal—"a large number of conversion, fabrication, and irradiation activities involving nuclear material," as well as facilities where those activities were conducted. These included failures to report testing of centrifuges at the Kalaye Electric Company in 1999 and 2002; the import of natural uranium in 1994 and its subsequent transfer for use in laser enrichment experiments (which included the production of enriched uranium); and the production and irradiation of uranium targets"

Obviously the Iranians will not let the IAEA confirm that they actually possess nukes as that would take away their sole barganing chip but all the indicators are firmly pointed in that direction.

I agree with you partly, but what do you mean by "free" nation, and would you name some nations which you regard as "un-free".

A free nation is one in which citizens are free to excercise their conciensce any way they see fit. Examples of "un-free" nations would be Iran, Sudan & Syria.

 

[tupacmansion]

When and if Iran develop a full nuclear capability and use it to threaten any free nation then action should be taken against them through the proper channels.

A free nation is one in which citizens are free to excercise their conciensce any way they see fit. Examples of "un-free" nations would be Iran, Sudan, Syria etc etc.

So going by your logic "un-free" nations are allowed to be nuked whilst free nations are fully protected. This means that the people who are being punished through a lack of freedom deserve to be punished even further by being exposed to a nuclear weapon. That is a sad view to have, you should know that nations which are'nt free deserve protection, they also consist of innocent law-abiding human beings.

Also don't attempt to discredit the point I made earlier, It says that their is no conclusive evidence that Iran has any weapons and that remains a fact.

 

[Zero Cool]

So going by your logic "un-free" nations are allowed to be nuked whilst free nations are fully protected. This means that the people who are being punished through a lack of freedom deserve to be punished even further by being exposed to a nuclear weapon. That is a sad view to have, you should know that nations which are'nt free deserve protection, they also consist of innocent law-abiding human beings.

Also don't attempt to discredit the point I made earlier, It says that their is no conclusive evidence that Iran has any weapons and that remains a fact.

Not at all you're twisting my points to fit you're pre-concieved notions. Iran is enemies with the western way of life and the U.S. in particular no-one else. Of course everyone deserves protection but do you honestly believe the Iranians will threaten nations who share their philosophies? Be realistic. It's the U.S. and Europe which have to face up to this threat.

To answer your last point, you're either blind or just ignorant if you reject the evidence pointing to Iran's development of nuclear weapons. If they are not on such a course why all the fuss, is it all imagined? As I've said before the Iranians will never let the IAEA actually confirm they are in possession of nukes as that would take away their main bargaining chip vis-a-vis the west but all the evidence is pointing that way.

"The report also included Iranian failures to report—and in fact, intentional efforts to conceal—"a large number of conversion, fabrication, and irradiation activities involving nuclear material," as well as facilities where those activities were conducted. These included failures to report testing of centrifuges at the Kalaye Electric Company in 1999 and 2002; the import of natural uranium in 1994 and its subsequent transfer for use in laser enrichment experiments (which included the production of enriched uranium); and the production and irradiation of uranium targets"

 

[tupacmansion]

Not at all you're twisting my points to fit you're pre-concieved notions. Iran is enemies with the western way of life and the U.S. in particular no-one else. Of course everyone deserves protection but do you honestly believe the Iranians will threaten nations who share their philosophies? Be realistic. It's the U.S. and Europe which have to face up to this threat.

Im not twisting your words, I'm quoting you word-for-word and there is no twisting involved. You clearly state that the free-nations deservre protection yet you fail to comprehend that other nations have a right to that protection also. And if these Iranians are as mad as you say they are then of course there is a chance that they will attack other nations with similar philosophies, countries do disagree on other matters and there is no two countries who share the exact same beliefs. We all know that Iran has gone to war with its neighbours before, so we should know that it is capable of happening again.

To answer your last point, you're either blind or just ignorant if you reject the evidence pointing to Iran's development of nuclear weapons. If they are not on such a course why all the fuss, is it all imagined? As I've said before the Iranians will never let the IAEA actually confirm they are in possession of nukes as that would take away their main bargaining chip vis-a-vis the west but all the evidence is pointing that way.

OK I take your points on board, there is evidense of Iran concealing nuclear material, but why do you easily accept certain parts of this report(which suit you), but then fail to understand other parts, which don't suit your needs and clearly state that there is no conclusive evidense. Also, why I am I getting the feeling of deja vu, when i read this report. Wasn't Iraq said to be hiding weapons. The UK and US government are untrustworthy in my oppinion and I think we should question their actions instead of letting them do whateva the hell they want. For you to believe all of this bullshit shows me that your blind and ignorant, you should realise by now that you should question what you read and what your government tells you, have you not learned anything from the falsified War in Iraq.

 

[Zero Cool]

Im not twisting your words, I'm quoting you word-for-word and there is no twisting involved. You clearly state that the free-nations deservre protection yet you fail to comprehend that other nations have a right to that protection also. And if these Iranians are as mad as you say they are then of course there is a chance that they will attack other nations with similar philosophies, countries do disagree on other matters and there is no two countries who share the exact same beliefs. We all know that Iran has gone to war with its neighbours before, so we should know that it is capable of happening again.

Inherent in your argument is the twisting of my points to fit your own. It was clearly contained within all my points that Iran's enemies are the U.S. and the western way of life. If you honestly think that they would attack nations who are friendly to their cause they you are sorely mistaken. Of course every person desevers protection but we are are dealing with the most likely recipients of the Iranians aggression and that is not nations like Syria. As to the Iranians going to war with their neighbours. As you well know the Iraqi regime was a government totally alien to Khomeini who viewed Saddam as a corrupt and immoral brute in tune with the Americans (who funded him during it) and thus went to war with him. Does the same situation exist today? As has been proven time after time Iran will only attack it's enemies not it's friends. Iran itself is an un-free nation why should it oppose other nations who agree with that philosophy.

OK I take your points on board, there is evidense of Iran concealing nuclear material, but why do you easily accept certain parts of this report(which suit you), but then fail to understand other parts, which don't suit your needs and clearly state that there is no conclusive evidense. Also, why I am I getting the feeling of deja vu, when i read this report. Wasn't Iraq said to be hiding weapons. The UK and US government are untrustworthy in my oppinion and I think we should question their actions instead of letting them do whateva the hell they want. For you to believe all of this bullshit shows me that your blind and ignorant, you should realise by now that you should question what you read and what your government tells you, have you not learned anything from the falsified War in Iraq.

I do not automatically believe everything the governments say however when you have the Iranians as much as admitting they are developing a nuclear weapon and dismissing negotiations which may curb these developments what can you but think? Unlike Iraq almost every western nation takes this as fact and is in the process of trying to dissuade the Iranians from developing a bomb. The U.S. has given no indications it wishes to do anything until Iran actually poses a direct threat but judging by the way they are going they've already descended onto the slippery slope.

 

[tupacmansion]

OK where getting caught up on one point, lets assume that they do have weapons. I believe that America still shouldn't attack them unless under direct threat and I think that Iran would never pose a direct threat, it would be purposeless for any nation to even consider attacking another nation with nuclear capabilities, simply b'coz their is too much at stake.

 

[Zero Cool]

OK where getting caught up on one point, lets assume that they do have weapons. I believe that America still shouldn't attack them unless under direct threat and I think that Iran would never pose a direct threat, it would be purposeless for any nation to even consider attacking another nation with nuclear capabilities, simply b'coz their is too much at stake.

A direct threat may not be in the form of attack it could be the Iranians selling their weapons to rouge nations or in a worst case scenario to terrorists like Bin Laden himself. However I agree that no military action should be taken without international approval and due cause.