Greatest catcher of all-time (revisited)

[Butt Rubber]

As posted by Amerikazmost (revised by Bank Robber w/ Gibson data):

Johnny Bench - Cincinnati Reds
17 Seasons
G - 2158
R - 1091
H - 2048
2B - 381
HR - 389
RBI - 1376
BB - 891
BA - .267
OBP - .342
SLG - .476
Fielding % - .990

1968 NL Rookie of the Year
14 time All-Star
2 time NL MVP
10 Gold Gloves
2 time NL HR champ
3 time NL RBI leader
Hall of Famer

Yogi Berra - New York Yankees
19 Seasons
G - 2120
R - 1175
H - 2150
2B - 321
HR - 358
RBI - 1430
BB - 704
BA - .285
OBP - .348
SLG - .482
Fielding % - .989

15 time All-Star
3 time AL MVP
Hall of Famer

Roy Campanella - Brooklyn Dodgers
10 Seasons
G - 1215
R - 627
H - 1161
2B - 178
HR - 242
RBI - 856
BB - 533
BA - .276
OBP - .360
SLG - .500
Fielding % - .988

8 time All-Star
3 time NL MVP
Hall of Famer

Gary Carter - Montreal Expos
19 Seasons
G - 2296
R - 1025
H - 2092
2B - 371
HR - 324
RBI - 1225
BB - 848
BA - .262
OBP - .335
SLG - .439
Fielding % - .991

11 time All-Star
3 Gold Gloves
5 Silver Sluggers
Hall of Famer

Mickey Cochrane - Philadelphia Athletics
13 Seasons
G - 1482
R - 1041
H - 1652
2B - 333
HR - 119
RBI - 832
BB - 857
BA - .320
OBP - .419
SLG - .478
Fielding % - .985

2 time All-Star
2 time AL MVP
Hall of Famer

Bill Dickey - New York Yankees
17 Seasons
G - 1789
R - 930
H - 1969
2B - 343
HR - 202
RBI - 1209
BB - 678
BA - .313
OBP - .382
SLG - .486
Fielding % - .988

11 time All-Star
Hall of Famer

Carlton Fisk - Boston Red Sox
24 Seasons
G - 2499
R - 1276
H - 2356
2B - 421
HR - 376
RBI - 1330
BB - 849
BA - .269
OBP - .341
SLG - .457
Fielding % - .988

1972 AL Rookie of the Year
11 time All-Star
1 Gold Glove
3 Silver Sluggers
Hall of Famer

Mike Piazza - Los Angelas Dodgers/New York Mets
14 Seasons
G - 1703
R - 976
H - 1929
2B - 308
HR - 397
RBI - 1223
BB - 707
BA - .311
OBP - .382
SLG - .555
Fielding % - .990

1993 NL Rookie of the Year
12 time All-Star
10 Silver Sluggers

Ivan Rodriguez - Texas Rangers
15 Seasons
G - 1887
R - 1085
H - 2190
2B - 445
HR - 264
RBI - 1050
BB - 411
BA - .304
OBP - .343
SLG - .487
Fielding % - .990

12 time All-Star
1999 AL MVP
11 Gold Gloves
7 Silver Sluggers

Josh Gibson - Pittsburgh Crawfords/Homestead Grays

*non-Negro League stats in italics

1930 .261 for Homestead; (1 hr, according to Holway)
1931 .308 for Homestead; 14 hr (2nd), 30 hr/550 (2nd), 15 2b (2nd), 7 3b (2nd); all-star
1932 .303 for Pgh; 10 hr (1st), 19 hr/550 (3rd), 16 2b (2nd), 6 3b (3rd); all-star
1933 .352 for Pgh; 23 hr (1st), 38 hr/550 (3rd), 18 2b (2nd), 10 3b (3rd); all-star
1934 .295 for Pgh; 16 hr (1st), 29 hr/550 (3rd), 15 2b (1st), 4 3b (4th);
1935 .355 for Pgh; 16 hr (1st), 40 hr/550 (2nd); all-star
1936 .327 for Pgh; 14 hr (3rd), 72 hr/550 (1st); all-star
1937 .462 for Homestead (1st); 21 hr (1st), 67 hr/550 (2nd), 5 3b (1st); all-star, MVP
1937-38 - Habana league (apparently signed late in season)
61 AB, 11 R, 21 H, 3 2B, 2 3B, 3 HR, 13 RBI, .344
1938-39 - (Santa Clara league)
163 AB, 50 R, 58 H, 7 2B, 3 3B, 11 HR, 39 RBI, 2 SB, .356
1938 .358 for Homestead; 8 hr (2nd), 28 hr/550 (5th), 2 3b (1st); all-star
1939 .341 for Homestead; 17 hr (1st), 105 hr/550 (1st), 2 3b (3rd); all-star, MVP
1940 .167 for Homestead, part-season only
1940 In Mexico, 43-92, .467, 11 hr (2nd), 65 hr/550 (1st)
1941 In Mexico, 134-368, .374 (2nd); 33 hr (1st), 49 hr/550 (1st)
1942 .347 for Homestead (4th); 14 hr (1st), 49 hr/550 (1st), 8 2b (4th), 3 sb (3rd); all-star, MVP
1943 .449 for Homestead (3rd); 22 hr (1st), 41 hr/550 (1st) 33 2b (1st), 8 3b (5th), all-star, MVP
1944 .365 for Homestead (4th); 17 hr (1st), 35 hr/550 (2nd); 8 2b (5th), 12 3b (1st); all-star MVP
1945 .323 for Homestead; 11 hr (1st); 60 hr/550 (1st), 4 3b (3rd); all-star
1946 .397 for Homestead; 17 hr (1st); 69 hr/550 (1st), 12 2b (1st), 4 3b (2nd); all-star MVP


Leaders
Seasons - Carlton Fisk
G - Carlton Fisk
R - Carlton Fisk
H - Carlton Fisk
2B - Ivan Rodriguez
HR - Mike Piazza
RBI - Yogi Berra
BB - Johnny Bench
BA - Mickey Cochrane
OBP - Mickey Cochrane
SLG - Mike Piazza
Fielding % - Gary Carter
All-Star Appearances - Yogi Berra
MVP Awards - Yogi Berra & Roy Campanella
Gold Gloves - Ivan Rodriguez
Silver Sluggers - Mike Piazza
__________________

 

[AmerikazMost]

lmao Bank...I'll make sure to consult you next time


thanks for including my original post though



Edit: How do you remove Fisk from the poll????????? fucking yankee fan

 

[Butt Rubber]

Bank Robber's list:

1-Josh Gibson (negro leagues)
2-Yogi Berra
3-Johnny Bench
4-Bill Dickey
5-Mike Piazza
6-Luis Santop (negro leagues)
7-Buck Ewing
8-Biz Mackey (negro leagues)
9-Roy Campanella
10-Pudge Rodriguez


for MLB stats, www.baseball-reference.com is the best place to look them up.

negro league stats are more scarce and vary in accuracy, sadly.

 

[Butt Rubber]

carlton fisk was good


however, anybody who wastes their vote on him over Bench/Berra/Piazza etc. etc. is a fucking moron to begin with

 

[AmerikazMost]

^ true, but the same can be said for dickey, cochrane, and carter, yet you chose to remove mr. fisk

 

[Butt Rubber]

yeah but those other 3 were better than fisk

 

[AmerikazMost]

yeah but those other 3 were better than fisk

Matter of opinion I guess, but as far as Carter goes, Fisk has him beat in the statistical categories, including the averages and percentages.


My top 10:
1. Ivan Rodriguez
2. Johnny Bench
3. Yogi Berra
4. Josh Gibson (I can't believe I overlooked him to be honest)
5. Roy Campanella
6. Mike Piazza (maybe number 5, but I've seen too much bad defense from him)
7. Carlton Fisk
8. Bill Dickey
9. Gary Carter
10. Mickey Cochrane

 

[Butt Rubber]

i dont know about pudge being #1

completely leaving out steroid suspicions, I still don't think he's as good of an offensive OR defense catcher as Bench

Gibson's offense is too much for Pudge's defense to overcome

Berra won three MVP awards despite having Mickey Mantle on his team 2 of those years and Joe Dimaggio on his team the other year. That says something.

Piazza's defense is definetely bad, but his offense pushes him over Pudge IMO


and your right, Fisk was better than Carter now that i think about it.

either way, theres no logical reason to vote for either in this poll

 

[AmerikazMost]

and your right, Fisk was better than Carter now that i think about it.

either way, theres no logical reason to vote for either in this poll

lol truth


And i don't know. Maybe it's because I've been watching Pudge for so long, but he always seems to be the guy to step up and do something great for the club. After hes done, I might look back and say Bench has him, but Pudge always seems to be in the middle of everything.

And i think you underestimate his offense. He has more runs, more hits, and more doubles than Piazza, one of the top two or three greatest offensive catchers ever.

 

[Butt Rubber]

yeah but Pudge has over 1000 more career at-bats than Piazza


and Piazza's OPS+ is 147, Pudge's is only 115. thats a huge margin.

and would it kill Pudge to walk occasionally? haha

 

[Butt Rubber]

career OPS+ among catchers:

*bold = players in poll

Mike Piazza (entering 2006): 147
Buck Ewing: 130
Mickey Cochrane: 128
Bill Dickey: 127
Gabby Hartnett: 126
Johnny Bench: 126
Yogi Berra: 125
Roy Campanella: 124
Jorge Posada: 121
Ted Simmons: 118
Carlton Fisk: 117
Thurmon Munson: 116
Gary Carter: 115
Pudge (entering 2006): 115

Pudge has alot of guys ahead of him

 

[Butt Rubber]

and pietro, i hate you

 

[AmerikazMost]

yeah but Pudge has over 1000 more career at-bats than Piazza


and Piazza's OPS+ is 147, Pudge's is only 115. thats a huge margin.

and would it kill Pudge to walk occasionally? haha

haha it's impossible to argue that Pudge is a better hitter, but I don't think it's as big a difference as it may seem.

162 Game Averages

..........AB....R.....H....2B.3B.HR..RBI..SB.CS.BB..SO...BA...OBP..SLG
Pudge 618...93...188..38..3..23...90...9....5...35...89...304...343...487
Piazza 590...93...183..29..1..38..116..2....2...67...94...311...382...555


Piazza has more power and walks more. That's about it.

By the end of their careers, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pudge's BA higher. Piazza's falling off fast. What's he batting this year? Around .250?

 

[AmerikazMost]

lmao..did pietro vote for carter?

 

[Butt Rubber]

Piazza's hitting .259

his career BA is down to .310, could drop to .309 by the end of the year

but the thing about taking their regular career stats is that your forgetting Pudge played most of his games in texas, easily one of the top 2 hitters parks in the entire AL (with Fenway)

Piazza was in LA, Shea and now San Diego, all 3 are more pitcher-freindly.

thats where OPS+ becomes a factor

 

[AmerikazMost]

Piazza's hitting .259

his career BA is down to .310, could drop to .309 by the end of the year

but the thing about taking their regular career stats is that your forgetting Pudge played most of his games in texas, easily one of the top 2 hitters parks in the entire AL (with Fenway)

Piazza was in LA, Shea and now San Diego, all 3 are more pitcher-freindly.

thats where OPS+ becomes a factor

I'm still holding the opinion that Pudge is a better defender than Piazza is a better hitter.

And Pudge holds some intangibles too. You never hear about Piazza's leadership. And Pudge has an MVP award. He got in a year that 6 players had more than 40 home runs and when Pedro had one of the greatest seasons for a pitcher ever (a lot argued he should've won the Cy Young AND the MVP).

 

[Butt Rubber]

Mike Piazza has 3.15 career shares* of the MVP award and came in 2nd in voting 2 years in a row (including losing to steroid-user Ken Cammineti one year)

Pudge has 1.04 career shares** of the MVP award with one top-10 vote finish (which was the year he won)

*29th all-time
**221st all-time


and I'll be honest, Pudge probably woud've been my 5th choice for MVP in '99

 

[AmerikazMost]

Mike Piazza has 3.15 career shares* of the MVP award and came in 2nd in voting 2 years in a row (including losing to steroid-user Ken Cammineti one year)

Pudge has 1.04 career shares** of the MVP award with one top-10 vote finish (which was the year he won)

*29th all-time
**221st all-time


and I'll be honest, Pudge probably woud've been my 5th choice for MVP in '99

Almost don't count.

 

[Butt Rubber]

i didn't use the word almost in my thread


and I'd rather have a catcher who can give me 5 straight top 10 MVP voting appearances and NOT win one, than a guy who wins one and then doesn't come close in his other 4 years

 

[AmerikazMost]

i didn't use the word almost in my thread


and I'd rather have a catcher who can give me 5 straight top 10 MVP voting appearances and NOT win one, than a guy who wins one and then doesn't come close in his other 4 years

I go back to the 162 game averages, which were comparable.

I'd take Pudge behind the plate, putting down the signals, throwing out the runners, and his sub-Piazza bat any day of the week.