EU - Romania and Bulgaria

[S O F I]

How has the EU fared with Romania and Bulgaria so far since their accession? Or, am I posing this question too early? I'm out of the loop on this matter.

 

[The.Menace]

You're way too early..... but if you ask for an opinion, I don't think those countries belong to the EU at this point in time.

 

[S O F I]

How so?

 

[The.Menace]

what do you know about the EU my friend?

 

[S O F I]

I just wanted your opinion on this.

I was hoping you'd actually answer my question and maybe with something better than the usual "their governments are corrupt and they have high gypsy populations".

 

[The.Menace]

Well see, I wanted an anwser too so I could realize where I should start with explaining my opinion.....

...but you don't anwser and fire back, as you usually do - I guess in order to hide that you don't know too much about the way the EU works.

 

[S O F I]

I guess you don't know much either, since you're refusing to answer my question.

 

[The.Menace]

Sometimes you are annoying sofi.

I think it's a fault cause of the economical discrepancy which debit the net payer even more, questionin how much longer it could work this way, plus I don't think the people were ready for another EU expansion, I actually thought the last one was too early.

 

[S O F I]

That's all you know?


I knew that and I'm in the US.



But seriously.

 

[The.Menace]

No, that's not all I know but you asked for a reason and there it is, of course this topic is way bigger but I don't feel like typin...

anyway, I doubt you really understood the system of net payers and recievers (there's a difference between 2 know and 2 understand) but then again I sometimes doubt that politicans really understood it themself so don't feel bad.

 

[S O F I]

I assume that by 'net payers', you mean the EU member countries who have to allocate money to the common EU budget. The receivers are obviously those in need of money. Usually it's the new member countries who get this financial aid; I'm not sure if all the countries get it. That is one of the reasons why poor european countries want to get in the EU really bad. That's why BeReal was against this year's accessions. It means less money for his naziland. Surely it's much more complicated than that, but you're making the EU system seem as abstract and hard to understand as the meaning of life.

 

[The.Menace]

Well, everybody pays money 2 the EU and everybody recieves money, if you are a net payer or reciever depens on the difference....

Usually it's the new member countries who get this financial aid

Wrong. Countries like Spain, Portugal or Greece recieve more money then they give since they joined the union - compared to the "new" countries, those aren't poor at all. Over all, more countries are recieveres than givers which actually puts a lot of pressure on the richer countries and yes, with every new accession there is one more reciever, cause those countries are poorer than the rest.

Of course the system is not that simple as I put it here, but well.

You also have to keep in mind, that if I talk about a gap between the new countries and the old, I really mean it. Maybe a look at the GDP will help you to understand, I take my numbers from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

United States 42,000
Mexico 7,298

Germany 33,854
Poland 7,946
Romania 4,539
Bulgaria 3,459

Well, the US build a wall to keep Mexicans out while the EU did welcome Rumania and Bulgaria recently as members.

Ok, well, there's a lot more to it but now I really don't want to go further right now.

 

[insomnia]

expansion of EU is good. of course i'm speaking from a point of view of a poorer country, but still, yes, we receive more money than we receive, but after i guess 5-7 years we gonna have to pay more than we will receive, since there are already poorer countries after the last expansion. our gdp is growing rapidly. actually, haven't noticed any big difference after we joined EU, but those financial injections into our economy system comparing to our budget are pretty descent (gdp at the moment is more than 14.000 usd) sad we didn't accept euro as a currency, but maybe it'll be better - no price growth as it was in other EU member countries.

 

[S O F I]

Well, everybody pays money 2 the EU and everybody recieves money, if you are a net payer or reciever depens on the difference....



Wrong. Countries like Spain, Portugal or Greece recieve more money then they give since they joined the union - compared to the "new" countries, those aren't poor at all. Over all, more countries are recieveres than givers which actually puts a lot of pressure on the richer countries and yes, with every new accession there is one more reciever, cause those countries are poorer than the rest.

Of course the system is not that simple as I put it here, but well.

You also have to keep in mind, that if I talk about a gap between the new countries and the old, I really mean it. Maybe a look at the GDP will help you to understand, I take my numbers from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

United States 42,000
Mexico 7,298

Germany 33,854
Poland 7,946
Romania 4,539
Bulgaria 3,459

Well, the US build a wall to keep Mexicans out while the EU did welcome Rumania and Bulgaria recently as members.

Ok, well, there's a lot more to it but now I really don't want to go further right now.

Well, the gap is only going to increase between the EU countries if they're not in the EU. Most people would agree that by joining the EU, a country will increase its GDP, so the gap would lessen. It seems to me that citizens of prosperous EU states such as Germany and the UK don't favor accession because it means their life will get a little bit harder in the present while the life of citizens in poorer countries like Romania will get a little bit better.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Im all for new countries joining the EU and trying to better their economies but one thing i dont like is the freedom of movement of people.I think there should be restrictions.The way it is now,people from these poorer eastern european countries can come to Ireland and work.Thats ok.i have no problem with this but now i feel there are too many from countries like Romania and Poland coming over here to work.Its gotten to the point where it is impossible for students to get part time work in the summer as foreigners are doing these jobs.Its great to see them earning a living but we need to look after ourselves first.

 

[The.Menace]

Well, the gap is only going to increase between the EU countries if they're not in the EU.

That's not true, the political system changed and the possibility in those countries are different now then it had been 20 years ago. Of course the EU will help them and it is a basic point to strenght poorer countries, hence the whole system and I'm for that but the point is they just aren't ready for the EU, like Bobby said, with the EU comes for example the right to work&live everywhere in the EU and that is a problem, since those people think about the west as ... nice place to be which just isn't true the way the imagin it to be. Yes, you can earn more money in another EU country but what people don't realize, everything costs so much more than back home, those people work but they remain poor.

It seems to me that citizens of prosperous EU states such as Germany and the UK don't favor accession because it means their life will get a little bit harder in the present while the life of citizens in poorer countries like Romania will get a little bit better.

that's just too simple. First of all we talk about a lot of money, second what does "a lil bit harder" mean? If people can't get no jobs like Bobby said it that it is a problem, third - like I said before - unless the USA that don't care about their neighbours the EU wants to help those countries and I'm all for it, but it takes time, that's all I say, they do it too quickly right now..... Last year there were new accession, this year again and like I said before, still countries that been in the EU for ages like Spain actually recieve more money than they can give - but how much can Germany or UK pay? there is a limit, that's all - and I do believe that other countries in the EU need to grow economical first before there is enough space for new "poor" countries.... so no, they point is the people in the UK and Germany are not greedy like you make it look here Sofi, they just worry and they have a point. And like I said before, the USA build a wall to keep mexicans out while the EU did welcome millions of new people the in the last years, it's just unfair to make those concerns look like greed - cause if that's greed what would u call the US politics then? As posted before, Mexico GDP is way higher than the GDP of the new EU countries, so imagin for the US to open the border and let all mexicans go and live and work where ever they want in the US - that would cause problems right - and well, the EU does exactly that with new accession, gives them all rights which is, one more time, the right thing to do - but the move on too quickly right now and that's why people worry.