Best P4P Boxer of All-Time???

#1
Just thought I'd ask this question, I've been thinking about it for a while. I don't think it's an easy answer, most would probably quickly answer Ali; I don't think he was. I don't even think he was the greatest heavyweight of all-time.

Best P4P boxer IMO was/is Sugar Ray Robinson. Look at his record, he won his first FORTY fights as a pro, and by his 100th fight, he had won 96 of them. He owned his division, but like all great fighters, he stayed around too long. All great fighters do it.

If anybody cares, here's my top ten:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. George Foreman
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Roy Jones Jr.
5. Joe Louis
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Cassius Clay
8. Jack Johnson
9. Emile Griffith
10. Mike Tyson (In '88, the boy was unstoppable)
 
#2
I don't see Julio Cesar Chavez on your list. He would be my top boxer. I like every single one of your choices except Jones Jr. There really wasn't another good fighter in his division.
 

AmerikazMost

Well-Known Member
#3
Saying anyone is better than Ali is like saying someone is better than Jordan or someone is better than Ruth. You can probably make some good arguments, but deep down inside, we all know it's not true.
 
#4
JCC would be in my 2nd tier group, with Joe Frazier and Floyd Patterson, possibly Hopkins.

As far as Roy goes, it's not his fault there was a lack of talent. To his credit, he won titles at middleweight (against a 22-1 Bernard Hopkins, no less), super middleweight (against an undefeated James Toney), light heavyweight (undisputed), AND heavyweight (1st middleweight in over 100 years to do so), so it's not like he was just idling in one division. That being said, his last Tarver fight, I lost a lot of respect for Roy after that fight, he did nothing but dance around, i felt like an idiot for rooting for him in that fight.
 

ARon

Well-Known Member
#5
How is Ali not even going to make your top ten.

I'd put Roy in my top 3.

Sugar Ray is a very good choice though, one of my favorites of all time.
 

Tito

New Member
#7
Sugar Ray Robinson 173 wins 19 losses 6 draws
Willie Pep 230 wins 11 losses 1 draw
Sandy Saddler 145 wins 16 losses 2 draws
Carlos Ortiz 61 wins 7 losses 1 draw
Roberto Duran 103 wins 16 losses
 
#8
Ali is the most overrated boxer of all time an anyone who says different will be bitch slapped he took that many ego head shots that he can't even function properly today.
 

stefanwzyga

Well-Known Member
#10
Kevsta2004 said:
Ali is the most overrated boxer of all time an anyone who says different will be bitch slapped he took that many ego head shots that he can't even function properly today.


You talking nonsence son.

Ali is without doubt one of the greatest fighters of all time, and the greatest heavyweight of all time. All the boxing experts have ali in there top 4 or 5 heavys of all time, ok so who would beat ali, Joe louis? not for me, too flat footed, if a 13 and a half stone billy conn can outbox him for 13 rounds what do you think a 16 stone ali would do to him? Rocky marciano? nope, too small, would be a great fight though. Jack dempsey? too small. Mike tyson? A 19 yearold tyson would have been a tough fight, but ali had a great chin, he would weather the storm then box his ears off. Jack johnson? I think this would have been one of the toughest fights for ali, but i still have ali winning. I also think larry holmes would have been a tough fight for ali, but i do think ali would have won a close decision.Lennox lewis(I hear all the americans laughing) for me this would have been a tough fight for ali, due to the size of lennox, but i still think ali would have won, if oliver mcall and hasim rackhman ko'd him im pretty sure ali could have aswell.


Henry armstrong is one of the greatest fighters, as is roberto duran/J C chavez they guys have to be up there.

I always say ali is the best because he's a heavyweight, he should'nt really have been able to the things he done! But pound for pound Sugar ray robinson, he had everything.


Kandeeman how can george foreman be number 2 on your list, and Ali at number 7:confused: George foreman was'nt the best of his era so how can he be your second best p 4 p of all time?
 
#11
Because he is, that's why. He obliterated Frazier, and I truly believe 4 out of 5 times he would have beaten ALI. In all likelihood, he should have knocked Ali out in that fight, but SOMETHING JUST WASN'T RIGHT THAT FIGHT. I can't say what, but add on the fact that Foreman put himself in title contention THREE TIMES in the '90s, and won the Heavyweight belt finally at age 45. In boxing, a sport where it seems every fighter stays around past their prime, that was a marvel to see George win it. He didn't just win it, he knocked Michael Moorer the fuck out! 76-5, with 68 knockouts. Fought 20 more fights than Ali, WON 20 more fights than Ali. Do not sell George Foreman short in my presence, brotha;)
 

stefanwzyga

Well-Known Member
#12
KanDeeMan said:
Because he is, that's why.

Hmmm no he aint.

He obliterated Frazier,
Styles make fights, he was a much bigger man than frazier.



and I truly believe 4 out of 5 times he would have beaten ALI.
Yeah right. If a 24 yearold primetime foreman could'nt beat a 32 yearold ali who was waaaay past his best by that time, why on earth do you think 4 times outta 5 he could beat ali? I honestly belive a 24 yearold ali would KO a 24 yearold foreman in around 4 rounds!! But then again, i dont really have to say that cuz they did fight, and ALI WON. Know what i mean?

In all likelihood, he should have knocked Ali out in that fight, but SOMETHING JUST WASN'T RIGHT THAT FIGHT.
People like you amaze me! Ali was never KO'D, with the ecxeption of the berbick and holmes fights where he was pulled out of both fights be his trainer.And he was riddled with parkinson in both fights. Ali had one of the best chins the sport has ever seen!


I can't say what, but add on the fact that Foreman put himself in title contention THREE TIMES in the '90s, and won the Heavyweight belt finally at age 45. In boxing, a sport where it seems every fighter stays around past their prime, that was a marvel to see George win it. He didn't just win it, he knocked Michael Moorer the fuck out!
That was a terrific achievment, but that dont mean he's the second best fighter ever! And it has to be said MM is one of the worst heavyweight champs of all time, after frank bruno and oliver mcall.Oh yeah and Bruce seldon.

76-5, with 68 knockouts. Fought 20 more fights than Ali, WON 20 more fights than Ali. Do not sell George Foreman short in my presence, brotha;)
Nobodys selling him short man. If you said foreman should be regarded as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time, i would agree with you, for me he would be in the top 10 heavys of all time, but he certainly aint the second best fighter who ever lived, thats nonsence.

All you can ask of a fighter is to prove he was the best in his era! Ali was, foreman was'nt. Simple as that. The only fighters who can be ranked as the greatest fighters ever, are those who proved without doubt they we're the best of there era.If you were'nt the best of your era how can you possibly be the best of all time?
 
#13
"Styles make fights, he was a much bigger man than frazier."

You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence, dogg.

As far as the Ali fight went, it wasn't a dominant display by Ali at all, Foreman punched until he was dead, and Ali finished him off. Ali surprised everyone by weathering Foreman's attacks, but don't make it sound like it was complete domination by Ali the entire fight.

Maybe I should change the title to "Favorite Boxer of All-Time", but I don't see your list anywhere. I believe Foreman was the greatest heavyweight of all-time, but if you put a gun to my head, he'd still be top 2, maybe top 3, but no farther down than that.


And John Ruiz was the worst Heavyweight champ of all-time, no contest;)
 

stefanwzyga

Well-Known Member
#15
KanDeeMan said:
"Styles make fights, he was a much bigger man than frazier."

You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence, dogg.
Styles do make fight's, but he was a much bigger man, am i lying?

As far as the Ali fight went, it wasn't a dominant display by Ali at all, Foreman punched until he was dead, and Ali finished him off. Ali surprised everyone by weathering Foreman's attacks, but don't make it sound like it was complete domination by Ali the entire fight.

Ali was 32 years old, back then that was very old for a heavyweight, he was fighting a younger stronger man, he fought a very smart fight.

Each to there own, but nobody apart from you thinks foreman is the best heavy of all time!

Maybe I should change the title to "Favorite Boxer of All-Time", but I don't see your list anywhere. I believe Foreman was the greatest heavyweight of all-time, but if you put a gun to my head, he'd still be top 2, maybe top 3, but no farther down than that.
To make a top 10 is very difficult, there is a lot of old film of certain fighters i aint seen, but i will make my top 10 later.


And John Ruiz was the worst Heavyweight champ of all-time, no contest;)
Dunno man frank bruno was fuckin useless. Even though i paid £200 for a ringside seat at wembley when he beat oliver mcall! I was there to see nigel benn who was fighting on the undercard.
 
#16
"I also think larry holmes would have been a tough fight for ali, but i do think ali would have won a close decision."

For the record larry holmes knocked out ali after battering him for 11 rounds. However Ali was well past his prime and still deserves top ten.

Roy Jones deserves at least a top 5 spot in the P4P list. For over ten years the man was invincible. In his first 4 years as a pro not one fighter went the distance. His style was revolutionary nobody else could ever get away with things Roy did in the ring. Unfortunatly that led 2 his downfall cuz when he got older he couldnt get away with it.

Id throw Hopkins on the list two after what he did Tarver. He earned my total respect.

Others who should be up there Tommy Hearns, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, Sugar ray Rogbinson, Marvin Haegler, Julio Ceaser Javez, and im gonna have to say Tyson. In his prime I'm not sure if anyone could have handled iron mike.

The fighters i picked arent in any specific order just the ones i think should fit into the top 10.
 

stefanwzyga

Well-Known Member
#17
struggle01 said:
For the record larry holmes knocked out ali after battering him for 11 rounds. However Ali was well past his prime and still deserves top ten.
Actually it was a TKO. And like i said ali was showing signs of parkinsons a long time before this fight.

Roy Jones deserves at least a top 5 spot in the P4P list.
For over ten years the man was invincible. In his first 4 years as a pro not one fighter went the distance. His style was revolutionary nobody else could ever get away with things Roy did in the ring. Unfortunatly that led 2 his downfall cuz when he got older he couldnt get away with it.

Roy was a great fighter, but the middle weight and the light heavy weight division has been very poor in recent years.

Id throw Hopkins on the list two after what he did Tarver. He earned my total respect.
I would have him as one of the greatest middle weights of all time, but there is no way he would be im my top 10 fighters of all time.

My top 10 would go something like this.


1.sugar ray robinson
2.Ali
3.henry armstrong
4.Roberto duran
5.Joe louis
6.J C chavez
7.Sugar ray leonard
8.Roy jones
9.Willie pep
10.Marco antonio barerra

Obviously i have only seen some footage of the really old fighters so my list should be taken with a pinch of salt.
 
#19
Your right it was a tko the trainer threw in the towel, but that might have saved Ali's life. From the clips I've seen he really took a beating. But like you said and i said earlier Ali was well passed his prime by then.

I still think hopkins deseves a to be in the p4p top ten. No middleweight dominated the division the way Hopkins did. 20 consecutive defenses? Thats unheard of. And the way he beat Tarver was put exclamation on it. The win was effortless he basically swept all 12 rounds.

I agree about the old fighters to. Its hard for me to accurately judge them because for lots of their carears i wasn't even alive. All i got is a few film clips and maybe some old fights they throw on espn.
 

stefanwzyga

Well-Known Member
#20
KanDeeMan said:
Armstrong I'm not too familiar with, except Fritzie Zivic had his number, I know that.

Yeah he did beat him twice, im not too sure how old armstrong was at that point in his career. Here is there ring records.

Zivic won 159 drawn 9 lost 64



Armstrong won 151 drawn 9 lost 21

Henry armstrong will always be remembered as one of the greatest fighters who ever lived, for this reason, When he was the feather weight champion, he skipped the light weight division, and won the welter weight title, then he went back down and won the light weight belt!! So he was the feather weight light weight and welter weight champ all at once( remember undisputed champ)
 

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