A different perspective....

[Amara]

I was talking to an Iraqi friend last night. I asked him about the election and whether he had voted. He said he had really wanted to, but the nearest polling station was in Melbourne (getting there would have been a greater expense he could afford at the time). His family in Iraq had all voted and were very pleased that they could finally exercise democractic rights, least not, so as to better reflect the Sunni, Shi'ite percentages of society and rectify the political imbalance that existed before.

He had said on another occasion that he was glad Saddam had been ousted and that he harboured no ill feelings towards the US coalition on account of the invasion. And when I asked, he said he did not question why the US had not dealt with Saddam 10 years ago during the reign of attrocities - he was just glad that something had been done eventually, the destruction during the time of Saddam seeming to outweigh the destruction caused by the war (although, not surprising as he had endured the war from afar).

For me, it brought the issue back to a realistic level. All too often, myself and others have focussed on the illegality of invasion, the destruction of war and loss of lives, whilst not really stopping to think - there are people in Iraq who are grateful. They do feel as though they have been afforded some degree of freedom and democracy. When my government and that of the US say Iraq has been freed from tyranny, I have scoffed and rolled my eyes. Although I will never suggest the war was successful or justifiable, talking to an Iraqi who professed to gain from it, however, made me view it in a different light, so I thought I would share it.

 

[Rukas]

While this is true, he would of had a different opinion had his family been among the innocent casualties.

 

[Amara]

^For sure it would have been different if he had endured direct losses, but I think there were a few tense times where he couldnt contact them and feared the worst. It surprised me though in the sense that after structural and societal devastation, he or anyone else would be able to focus on political rights as a worthy gain.

Takes me back to a debate we had in politics at uni, what is more important social and economic rights or cultural/political rights.... right to life v freedom of speech....

 

[groobz]

"the destruction during the time of Saddam seeming to outweigh the destruction caused by the war "

This is what i've been saying for a long time now. Sure there's going to be people that have lost family members and friends due to coalition bombings, and of course they are going to resent the U.S for that,, but the casualties that the coalition has inflicted is minimal when you look at how many people have lost family members due to the brutality of saddams regime. Most of the middle eastern dudes i talk too, are very similar to amara's friend,, don't really hold any grudges towards the U.S, happy that Saddam is gone, and just want to get back to living life!

 

[Jurhum]

"the destruction during the time of Saddam seeming to outweigh the destruction caused by the war "

This is what i've been saying for a long time now. Sure there's going to be people that have lost family members and friends due to coalition bombings, and of course they are going to resent the U.S for that,, but the casualties that the coalition has inflicted is minimal when you look at how many people have lost family members due to the brutality of saddams regime. Most of the middle eastern dudes i talk too, are very similar to amara's friend,, don't really hold any grudges towards the U.S, happy that Saddam is gone, and just want to get back to living life!

Are you positive that the pain and suffering inflicted by US or Coalition Forces, as they call it, was minimal to that of Saddams reign? As you may not understand the whole situation, Saddam was a president of the country. I've said before many times that Saddam wasn't a perfect president, but he maintained order in the land. Now, if you look at it, you got these groups who claim to be Arabs bombing everywhere. Targets are mostly innocent Iraqis. Who get the blame? Sunnis. Why? Perhaps you have never thought about it, to cause a war between the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. If this should happen, God forbids, Iraq will never see peace again.

 

[Amara]

Are you positive that the pain and suffering inflicted by US or Coalition Forces, as they call it, was minimal to that of Saddams reign? As you may not understand the whole situation, Saddam was a president of the country. I've said before many times that Saddam wasn't a perfect president, but he maintained order in the land. Now, if you look at it, you got these groups who claim to be Arabs bombing everywhere. Targets are mostly innocent Iraqis. Who get the blame? Sunnis. Why? Perhaps you have never thought about it, to cause a war between the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. If this should happen, God forbids, Iraq will never see peace again.

I cannot speak for groobz, but he was referring to my statement that from the perspective of an Iraqi I knew, it was not that coalition damage to the country was minimal but that there is a sense of hope that the devastation his family had witnessed during the Saddam era was over and that a democratic system would bring peace and equal political representation of both the Sunnis and Shi'ites. This is not a definitive statement - but rather one person's opinion. As for Saddam eventually establishing order - the question was always, at what cost?

 

[Belle]

As you may not understand the whole situation, Saddam was a president of the country. I've said before many times that Saddam wasn't a perfect president, but he maintained order in the land. Now, if you look at it, you got these groups who claim to be Arabs bombing everywhere.

In a way i agree. Saddam was far from perfect but he had those groups, that are now running wild, under control. He ruled with fear & it worked on those peoples. There were obviously the innocents & they lived in fear too - but on some level they knew wat to expect out of their life. It had become their norm.

On the other hand, no one should have to live like that & i know plenty of Iraqi's that are glad that Saddam's been removed - regardless of the method in which it was done.

The thing is that everyone just goes along wit popular opinion & doesnt bother using their own mind to make judgements. "If everyone thinks a certain way, then that must be the right way" mentality. During the time of the war, the "in" thing to say was 'fuck Bush' or 'fuck Howard' - so peoples jus automatically thought that was the right way to think. People forget that you have to look at things from all the angles.

 

[Amara]

The thing is that everyone just goes along wit popular opinion & doesnt bother using their own mind to make judgements. "If everyone thinks a certain way, then that must be the right way" mentality. During the time of the war, the "in" thing to say was 'fuck Bush' or 'fuck Howard' - so peoples jus automatically thought that was the right way to think. People forget that you have to look at things from all the angles.

While that is no doubt true for some, on my part it was not 'fuck Howard' because that were was a consensus, but rather fuck the illegitimate cause for war, the destruction of a nation state, the undermining of the supposed authority of international relations and not to meantion the diplomatic repercussions of a unilateral, self-serving agenda which generates fear and insecurity whilst drawing attention away from the domestic issues of more pressing concern....! So being caught up in the theoretical justifications and critical analyses serves to take away some of the objectivity of a situation..

 

[Little Skittle]

this is an excellent thread props to u :thumb: